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Thread: Roughing the new guy, 15 yards...

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Roughing the new guy, 15 yards...

    I sent my friend MilProGuy here to learn about OC in his home state since I know that the Washington OCDO guys are helpful and educated and I hoped you guys could help him. Your OC situation in MS is not as clear cut as our laws in Washington State and he had questions I couldn't answer. Based on reading the threads he has been involved in, I would like to suggest three things to you folks:

    1. Get a clear and concise gun rights brochure set up, reviewed by a lawyer (or maybe your Attorney General) who works in this field, like the one we have that states the facts of the law in clear English, AS IT EXISTS TODAY in MS. Include the case law as it applies. See the Washington State pamphlet here, http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ights-Pamphlet

    2. Work on busting your legislator's chops until they sort out your Rights in a clear and well defined format, in LAW, either Positive Law or even better, Natural Law. All you need is some clarified language in the existing law and you'd be good. Blowing out the entire CC thing and going to Constitutional Carry would be much better. Honestly, based on my recent reading of your law, I wouldn't OC in MS today as it's too gray for me. Getting arrested isn't the best approach to changing law until everything else has been tried and has failed.

    3. And please be nice to a new guy. Jeeze. He was just challenging your assumptions and some of you were not all that kind to him, not all, just some. Learn to discuss politely and please remember that these non-OC folks VOTE in your state...
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    Oh ok see I saw that his account was opened this month and has 89 post and given the tone to me it seemed like there was a cc only kind of fella trolling the oc friendly folks see I've been a member here since 2009 and haven't posted much until lately when I did start oc-ing. I found most all of my answers I was looking for in previous post, many of those answers are to the very same questions he has. And I didnt try to jack other threads posting the same stuff over and over again. Oh wait itsnt that kinda like spam. But I digress I'm sure there must be some logical explanations to how this whole situation has come about. Perhaps a breakdown in the channels of communications and now we have arrived at this juncture in which the fallacies can be unraveled and prevented in the future.

    TAR

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    The new guy didn't get "roughed" until he became a pain. He started off wrong by spamming something like 15 threads over a day asking the same question that's been asked time and time again. Then when folks answered him, he proceeded to pick on a phrase from the concealed carry licensing statute and opine that it outlawed OC, or he asked "what statute gives you permission to OC"? I've read every thread he posted on, and folks were very willing to explain the ins and outs of OC in MS, until it became clear that he wasn't listening.

    If he wanted to learn about the law from the locals, that's a piss-poor approach to take. Questioning assumptions is good; refusing to engage in discussion, and instead beating on an irrelevant phrase and refusing to listen to knowledgeable explanations of the law, is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    I sent my friend MilProGuy here to learn about OC in his home state since I know that the Washington OCDO guys are helpful and educated and I hoped you guys could help him. Your OC situation in MS is not as clear cut as our laws in Washington State and he had questions I couldn't answer. Based on reading the threads he has been involved in, I would like to suggest three things to you folks:
    ...

    3. And please be nice to a new guy. Jeeze. He was just challenging your assumptions and some of you were not all that kind to him, not all, just some. Learn to discuss politely and please remember that these non-OC folks VOTE in your state...
    He was not just challenging assumptions. We have discussed the points he raised many times. He spammed ignorance across ~15 threads. Spamming is rude and I don't think I'm the only one who dislikes it. Perhaps you should help your friend in appropriate forum behavior. If he had simply wanted to discuss his opinion no matter how wrong (and boy was it wrong what he spewed) thats fine, but now that you bring it up it does seem like we were trolled as well. We have been discussing things politely here the rudeness was brought by your spamming friend. I'll continue to politely discuss OC with those who display proper manners, I'll not be polite with rude spammers or trolls.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    The new guy didn't get "roughed" until he became a pain. He started off wrong by spamming something like 15 threads over a day asking the same question that's been asked time and time again. Then when folks answered him, he proceeded to pick on a phrase from the concealed carry licensing statute and opine that it outlawed OC, or he asked "what statute gives you permission to OC"? I've read every thread he posted on, and folks were very willing to explain the ins and outs of OC in MS, until it became clear that he wasn't listening.

    If he wanted to learn about the law from the locals, that's a piss-poor approach to take. Questioning assumptions is good; refusing to engage in discussion, and instead beating on an irrelevant phrase and refusing to listen to knowledgeable explanations of the law, is not.
    Bingo.

    Read more, post less, and don't be a &$%@#.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Turn the map around

    Put yourself in his shoes. He's coming at this with preconceived notions and assumptions stemming from a lifetime of believing a certain activity is wrong (illegal). Sure, maybe a 15 yard penalty is a bit much based on his approach but, were it me, I would do my best, in a cordial manner to deal with his questions. This has taught me to not assume anything about interactions here on OCDO. Next time, I will research it myself and bring the prepared information to the person in question. Less chance of "conflict".

    Oh, and ignorance is not a crime, it's a national disease and needs to be treated with understanding and forethought rather than open excoriation of the ignorant by those "in the know"...

    BTW. Did any of you read my points 1 and 2? What do you think about them? The real issue with this online exchange was that you guys have to discuss you law with people on a non-statute basis since one of your statutes is clearly in conflict with your Constitution. Pretty confusing and it puts the interpretation in the hands of LE.
    Last edited by Freedom First; 07-15-2011 at 11:00 AM.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    Put yourself in his shoes. He's coming at this with preconceived notions and assumptions stemming from a lifetime of believing a certain activity is wrong (illegal). Sure, maybe a 15 yard penalty is a bit much based on his approach but, were it me, I would do my best, in a cordial manner to deal with his questions. This has taught me to not assume anything about interactions here on OCDO. Next time, I will research it myself and bring the prepared information to the person in question. Less chance of "conflict".
    having preconceived notions does not justify spamming, such behavior is rude and if not nipped in the bud quickly has the potential to hurt the cause.

    Oh, and ignorance is not a crime, it's a national disease and needs to be treated with understanding and forethought rather than open excoriation of the ignorant by those "in the know"...

    BTW. Did any of you read my points 1 and 2? What do you think about them? The real issue with this online exchange was that you guys have to discuss you law with people on a non-statute basis since one of your statutes is clearly in conflict with your Constitution. Pretty confusing and it puts the interpretation in the hands of LE.
    Have you read any of the Mississippi section? people are working on it, no details are not being posted everywhere, but individuals are contacting legislators and meetings are being planned.

    Nothing ever puts the interpretation of the law or constitution in the hands of LEA. That is up to the courts and the people. I think everyone that regularly posts in the MS section understands that some are confused by taboo and a lack of understanding of law. In the past people have asked questions and had discussions to clarify such things, all without spamming. Confusion does not justify spamming.
    Last edited by Daylen; 07-15-2011 at 04:24 PM.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    Put yourself in his shoes. He's coming at this with preconceived notions and assumptions stemming from a lifetime of believing a certain activity is wrong (illegal). Sure, maybe a 15 yard penalty is a bit much based on his approach but, were it me, I would do my best, in a cordial manner to deal with his questions. This has taught me to not assume anything about interactions here on OCDO. Next time, I will research it myself and bring the prepared information to the person in question. Less chance of "conflict".

    Oh, and ignorance is not a crime, it's a national disease and needs to be treated with understanding and forethought rather than open excoriation of the ignorant by those "in the know"...

    BTW. Did any of you read my points 1 and 2? What do you think about them? The real issue with this online exchange was that you guys have to discuss you law with people on a non-statute basis since one of your statutes is clearly in conflict with your Constitution. Pretty confusing and it puts the interpretation in the hands of LE.


    Good grief. Folks were cordial until MilProGuy showed his boneheadedness.

    He didn't just come in with "preconcieved notions", he argued those notions persistently in the face of LAWS to to the contrary, that were posted by several people. Not knowing is not a crime, but if someone is presented with the STATE LAWS in original text and with plain-English explanations, and continues to argue that OC is illegal based on a law that specifically states it does not address OC, well he's just plain stupid and not really interested in learning, just in arguing.

    edited to add: What your "friend" did was come and ask a question (in 15 threads), then stick his fingers in his ears and shout "NO YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG" while he was being answered. Sure doesn't sound like someone who's interested in learning, does it.
    Last edited by 4angrybadgers; 07-15-2011 at 03:38 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    The new guy didn't get "roughed" until he became a pain. He started off wrong by spamming something like 15 threads over a day asking the same question that's been asked time and time again. Then when folks answered him, he proceeded to pick on a phrase from the concealed carry licensing statute and opine that it outlawed OC, or he asked "what statute gives you permission to OC"? I've read every thread he posted on, and folks were very willing to explain the ins and outs of OC in MS, until it became clear that he wasn't listening.

    If he wanted to learn about the law from the locals, that's a piss-poor approach to take. Questioning assumptions is good; refusing to engage in discussion, and instead beating on an irrelevant phrase and refusing to listen to knowledgeable explanations of the law, is not.
    I suppose I can understand why you have the screen name you do.

    Chill out. Don't be so defensive.

    Don't be afraid of an honest question.

  10. #10
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post



    well he's just plain stupid and not really interested in learning, just in arguing.
    Boy, you guys sure don't cut a new guy any slack, do you?

    Your assessment of me is so far off track.

    I came here by invitation in the hopes of finding out if I can LEGALLY open carry in the state of Mississippi.

    So far, no one has presented anything legally binding that states it is legal to open carry in my state.

  11. #11
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    He was not just challenging assumptions. We have discussed the points he raised many times. He spammed ignorance across ~15 threads. Spamming is rude and I don't think I'm the only one who dislikes it. Perhaps you should help your friend in appropriate forum behavior. If he had simply wanted to discuss his opinion no matter how wrong (and boy was it wrong what he spewed) thats fine, but now that you bring it up it does seem like we were trolled as well. We have been discussing things politely here the rudeness was brought by your spamming friend. I'll continue to politely discuss OC with those who display proper manners, I'll not be polite with rude spammers or trolls.
    I didn't realize I was "spamming".

    I was posting a legitimate question, and when I didn't get an answer that assured me it was legal to open carry in Mississippi, I went to another thread, found a different group of people, talking about the issue and posed the question to them.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Freedom First, I thank you for attempting to champion my cause and help the members on this forum understand my purpose for joining and posting on this forum.

    You are a gentleman, and are an asset to this forum and to TaurusArmed.net.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Boy, you guys sure don't cut a new guy any slack, do you?

    Your assessment of me is so far off track.

    I came here by invitation in the hopes of finding out if I can LEGALLY open carry in the state of Mississippi.

    So far, no one has presented anything legally binding that states it is legal to open carry in my state.
    Geez, you flat out refuse to get it, don't you.

    Laws make actions Illegal. That was explained to you over and over, and over again. Do you still really, NOT get it?

    I personally can legally open carry in Nevada. There is NO STATUTE that tells me it is legal. There is NO NEED for such statute, because it hasn't been legislated into being illegal. It isn't rocket science, but for some reason, you simply refuse to understand what has been explained at great length to you.
    Last edited by wrightme; 09-29-2011 at 12:56 AM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    I sent my friend MilProGuy here to learn about OC in his home state since I know that the Washington OCDO guys are helpful and educated and I hoped you guys could help him. Your OC situation in MS is not as clear cut as our laws in Washington State and he had questions I couldn't answer. Based on reading the threads he has been involved in, I would like to suggest three things to you folks.
    Sit him down and explain to him how law works. THEN send him to learn, and not to be obtuse. Seriously.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Geez, you flat out refuse to get it, don't you.

    Laws make actions Illegal. That was explained to you over and over, and over again. Do you still really, NOT get it?

    I personally can legally open carry in Nevada. There is NO STATUTE that tells me it is legal. There is NO NEED for such statute, because it hasn't been legislated into being illegal. It isn't rocket science, but for some reason, you simply refuse to understand what has been explained at great length to you.
    So you are from Nevada.

    Okay.

    I came here to ask Mississippians about the open carry issue in our state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    So you are from Nevada.

    Okay.

    I came here to ask Mississippians about the open carry issue in our state.
    Same statutory reality applies. DO you "get it" or not?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Thanks.

    I'll wait on a Mississippian to come along. They usually can have an intelligent conversation without badgering and insulting one another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Thanks.

    I'll wait on a Mississippian to come along. They usually can have an intelligent conversation without badgering and insulting one another.
    They are likely to tell you the same thing I did. Again. Seriously.

    Laws are written to make acts illegal. Do you at least understand that reality?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    So you are from Nevada.

    Okay.

    I came here to ask Mississippians about the open carry issue in our state.
    MilProGuy you do not have the luxury of choosing who responds to your questions - OCDO is not state restrictive. Surely since you registered in July you have personally been able to confirm that if no statute exists making something illegal, then it is by default legal.

    To get a quick overview of OC relevant to any state, click on the interactive maps provided on this forum: http://www.opencarry.org/maps.html

    Read and learn.

    BTW - posting the same issue, over and over is frowned upon here. Had I caught that at the time, they would either have been merged or deleted.
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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    MilProGuy you do not have the luxury of choosing who responds to your questions


    .
    Respectfully, I could see that there was no possibility of having a civil discourse with one particular member, and felt that it might be beneficial to wait on someone who actually resided in Mississippi to discuss this matter with me.

    Thank you for posting the link.

    I did check the map and Mississippi was listed as a licensed open carry state. But I cannot find that in Mississippi law.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 09-29-2011 at 01:42 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Respectfully, I could see that there was no possibility of having a civil discourse with one particular member, and felt that it might be beneficial to wait on someone who actually resided in Mississippi to discuss this matter with me.

    Thank you for posting the link.

    I did check the map and Mississippi was listed as a licensed open carry state. But I cannot find that in Mississippi law.
    The lead in to Mississippi map page adequately explains why.

    " As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part, a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver is required to openly carry a handgun in a holster in Mississippi."

    Therefore it is case law, not statute law.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Respectfully, I could see that there was no possibility of having a civil discourse with one particular member, and felt that it might be beneficial to wait on someone who actually resided in Mississippi to discuss this matter with me.

    Thank you for posting the link.

    I did check the map and Mississippi was listed as a licensed open carry state. But I cannot find that in Mississippi law.
    Well... MilProGuy... of the 9 old threads you resurrected only 3 of them are 2 years old or older. Perhaps if you post in a few more REALLY old threads(try 2008), the wise Mississippians may share their closely guarded secret with you

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Respectfully, I could see that there was no possibility of having a civil discourse with one particular member, and felt that it might be beneficial to wait on someone who actually resided in Mississippi to discuss this matter with me.

    Thank you for posting the link.

    I did check the map and Mississippi was listed as a licensed open carry state. But I cannot find that in Mississippi law.
    THAT IS BECAUSE OPENCARRY.ORG IS WRONG! In MS we have NO law against open carry. Thus it is legal. Opencarry.org researchers are either stupid or are more worried about covering their butt than giving true information. They took a nonbinding assenting opinion (not majority opinion) of a court and decided that must be the way things are. As many others and I have reminded you before the same legal principle that allows the unregulated kissing of girls provides for the unregulated carrying openly of arms in MS; that is there is no law against it therefore it is not illegal.

    If you didn't know you were spamming and were truely just moving on to another thread because your questions were not answered; then why did you post the same darn question in 20 threads in the span of minutes!? Do you think hordes of Mississippians are constantly refreshing the MS page to answer YOUR questions and have nothing better to do? If you want dialog ask a question in ONE thread and wait a day or two for responses before hitting every thread you can in 5 minutes with the same question.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  24. #24
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Are you a moderator, Daylen?

    Nope...didn't think so.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 09-29-2011 at 12:31 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Well... MilProGuy... of the 9 old threads you resurrected only 3 of them are 2 years old or older. Perhaps if you post in a few more REALLY old threads(try 2008), the wise Mississippians may share their closely guarded secret with you
    Very well.

    I see you are from Slidell, LA.

    I'll wait and see if some Mississippians will respond to the things I've inquired about.

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