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Thread: Interesting twist

  1. #1
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Interesting twist

    So i had jury duty wed. down here in thurston county and it was uneventful...other than the fact that i think they don't lke jurors who know the law. I could not beleive how ignorant some of my fellow jurors were, but thats another story. i didn't get selected but i suprised the prosecutor by refering to the relevent RCW during pre-trial jury selection.

    So the real story i was back at work today speaking to one of my supevisors about the process and we got off on the subject of why i would know the law which led to my participation with OCDO and he was ignorant of his own rightd in the state. he was under the impression that OC was somehow "murky" legaly and so i offered to get him a copy of the pamplet. an offer which he accepted.

    So a jury duty call up got me to help somebody understand their rights a bit better, thats a win/win in my book.

    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  2. #2
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    The reason that "they" don't like jurors who claim knowledge of the "Law" is that it is not the job of a Juror to know it. The job of the Juror is merely to evaluate the evidence and testimony that is presented to them in the trial and follow the instructions as presented to them by the Judge.

    That's the system, like it or not. Based on observations of recent trials in foreign countries as reported in our news, we have one of the best systems in the world.

    How'd you like to be charged with a crime in Italy, sit in jail for years before a trial, and then be charged again for Slander because you called the police abusive?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  3. #3
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    I showed up with my handbook and was promptly let go once they found out what I was looking through. I gave it to the guy next to me when i left.


  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    I showed up with my handbook and was promptly let go once they found out what I was looking through. I gave it to the guy next to me when i left.

    How about a link to where that book can be obtained?

    I did a cut&paste of freedomspheonix and got a headache - what a massively busy page that was. My head still hurts from trying to find anything there.

    stay safe.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    How about a link to where that book can be obtained?

    I did a cut&paste of freedomspheonix and got a headache - what a massively busy page that was. My head still hurts from trying to find anything there.

    stay safe.
    Link to buy.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ce-full-site=1

    Link to pdf download.


    http://www.apfn.org/pdf/citizen.pdf
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  6. #6
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    If you want the same hand book.....

    http://www.homeschoolpatriot.com/cit...rule_book.html


  7. #7
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Jury selection has been described to me as prosecutors and defense attorney's alike want a dumb down jury, that has not been involved in nor have knowledge about the subject to be heard.

    In hopes they can educate the jury about the process concerning laws and evidence.
    If one wants to serve on a jury do not try and prove how smart you are as in doing so will likely get you dismissed.

    side note, if you want to be able to present or educate the jury during a trial then we need to consider on how we can educate the jury.
    A good way to accomplish this we must prove that we had prior training and/or knowledge concerning self defense is to writing down all the training, books, videos, references, studies down and mailing it to ourselves and leave it sealed and then only opened as evidence in court.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    The reason that "they" don't like jurors who claim knowledge of the "Law" is that it is not the job of a Juror to know it. The job of the Juror is merely to evaluate the evidence and testimony that is presented to them in the trial and follow the instructions as presented to them by the Judge.

    That's the system, like it or not.

    Respectfully disagree. It's the system they WANT you to think we have.

    Learn your true power as a Juror, and start to take back your freedom.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phssthpok View Post
    Respectfully disagree. It's the system they WANT you to think we have.

    Learn your true power as a Juror, and start to take back your freedom.
    +1

    The only problem is too many jurors buy into the what is fed them at the courthouse.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    If one wants to serve on a jury do not try and prove how smart you are as in doing so will likely get you dismissed.
    Save that little oath i swore to tell the truth and answer all questions honestly. if they do not like my honest answers then i am fine with being dismissed.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  11. #11
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    side note, if you want to be able to present or educate the jury during a trial then we need to consider on how we can educate the jury.
    A good way to accomplish this we must prove that we had prior training and/or knowledge concerning self defense is to writing down all the training, books, videos, references, studies down and mailing it to ourselves and leave it sealed and then only opened as evidence in court.
    WTF? Wanna try that again with a little proofreading? It sounds interesting but there appears to have been some issue with the keyboard...
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    Save that little oath i swore to tell the truth and answer all questions honestly. if they do not like my honest answers then i am fine with being dismissed.
    I used to feel that way but feel I will be closed with my personal info and feelings, otherwise there would might not be a chance of jury nullification in a case that might need it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    WTF? Wanna try that again with a little proofreading? It sounds interesting but there appears to have been some issue with the keyboard...
    Lets try this, Prior Knowledge up to the incident can be presented to the jury or into evidence. This prior knowledge can cover prior training, books, videos, studies relating to self defense. To prove that you had prior knowledge one way is to compile the information and mail it to yourself and leaving it sealed until needed, thus with a seal and stamped date should be acceptable by the court.

    By approaching it in this manner, one could educate the jury and acceptable practices of self defense.
    This would also allow professional witnesses testify on those issues, thus solidifying your position.

    simple enough
    Last edited by BigDave; 07-16-2011 at 11:50 AM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    The reason that "they" don't like jurors who claim knowledge of the "Law" is that it is not the job of a Juror to know it. The job of the Juror is merely to evaluate the evidence and testimony that is presented to them in the trial and follow the instructions as presented to them by the Judge.
    Merely?

    A jurist is supposed to judge the law, as well as the evidence. They are supposed to judge the morality of the government's actions, in the case at hand. It is a check against tyranny.

    http://www.fija.org/
    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...ification.html

    Quote Originally Posted by first Chief Justice, John Jay, 1805
    You have a right to take upon yourselves to judge [both the facts and law]
    As to the Knoxx issue, check some facts. America incarcerates more citizens than any other country on earth. We incarceriate minorities at a vastly higher rate than non-minorities. We have made locking people up into a business, and put racism in the mix.

    How is that better than Italy? Remember that dirty DA in the Duke rape case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong -- most other DAs are dirty too, the dirt is just under the rug.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 07-16-2011 at 01:41 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post

    As to the Knoxx issue, check some facts. America incarcerates more citizens than any other country on earth. We incarceriate minorities at a vastly higher rate than non-minorities. We have made locking people up into a business, and put racism in the mix.
    SO you're among those who think it's racist to even suggest that minorities may commit more crimes than majorities?

    We incarcerate more citizens mostly due to our draconian drug laws, but that's a debate for a different thread. As with our Liberty, for all its problems our justice system is still better than anything else out there.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  16. #16
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post

    How is that better than Italy?
    The right to a speedy trial in this country comes to mind. The Knox case took 2 years to make it to trial. Even when another of the "suspects" elected for a "fast track" it took over a year for his trial to occur. Just think, even if found not guilty in Italy you may have already spent 2 years in jail.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  17. #17
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    The right to a speedy trial in this country comes to mind. The Knox case took 2 years to make it to trial. Even when another of the "suspects" elected for a "fast track" it took over a year for his trial to occur. Just think, even if found not guilty in Italy you may have already spent 2 years in jail.
    How is that different than America, post Patriot Act.

    http://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html
    The government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
    Just because you think it won't happen to you, doesn't make us better than Italy. Our "justice" system is just as much a farce as theirs.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    How is that different than America, post Patriot Act.

    http://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html


    Just because you think it won't happen to you, doesn't make us better than Italy. Our "justice" system is just as much a farce as theirs.
    Wasn't Casey Anthony almost 3 years? Speedy trial when it benefits the government delay when it doesn't. I am on board with ya Dave people have lost the true meaning of what being a juror means. We have a duty not to convict people on laws we disagree with.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    SO you're among those who think it's racist to even suggest that minorities may commit more crimes than majorities?

    We incarcerate more citizens mostly due to our draconian drug laws, but that's a debate for a different thread. As with our Liberty, for all its problems our justice system is still better than anything else out there.
    Your ethnic background matters little but being raised by a single mother matters a lot. Up to 95% of criminals in prison are from single mother families regardless of their heritage.

    And we do need to get rid of our unconstitutional drug laws, and stop locking up people for simply lying to cops or the government when they lie to us continually.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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