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Thread: Open Carry in Texas Update????
Alright its July 15th! I havent been keeping up with the legislation website in Texas until recently. Can anyone give me an update on whats happening with the Open Carry bill sponsored by George Lavender. Are we gunna see OC put into effect this year or will we have to try again next year to get it passed int he house and the senate. Im new to this thread by the way i joined today. So any information anyone wants to share would be greatly appreciated. I support Open Carry in Texas 100%. I hope we can get this law accomplished. Thanks again in advance for your help on understanding where we stand on this issue.
"When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."
From a legislative standpoint, OC is out until the 83rd session (2013). Until then our only viable avenue is the courts.
I appreciate the update. Due to your information i finally have a clear understanding of whats going on and what to expect from legislation. Bummer! Oh well, just gotta keep pushin that bill in earlier for 2013. Stay on em till they squeel and give in to the citizens.
Sic Vis Pacem Para Bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war
The primary obstacle to "legalizing" open carry of a handgun in Texas is 134 years of case law misinterpreting Article 1, Section 23 of the Texas Constitution as providing for the Legislature to regulate the "wearing" of handguns.
Article 1, Section 23 makes no reference to ANY PARTICULAR CATEGORY OF ARMS, and all available historical evidence supports the "wearing of arms" term in Article 1, Section 23 pertains to the CONCEALMENT of ANY category of arms upon one's person, or under one's clothing.
Texans are simply going to have to find some EFFECTIVE approach to convincing their legislators, State judges, THEIR GOVERNOR, county prosecutors, and LEO's - that "open carry" of legally possessed rifles, shotguns, and handguns is not only "legal", but has been protected by the Texas Constitution since its adoption in 1876.
Section 46.02 (a) of the Texas Penal Code as it echos the Reconstruction Disarmament Act of April 12, 1871 only applies to the CONCEALMENT of said arms. Texas handgun carry law is essentially identical to Colorado's (constitutional) right to bear arms - except for the absence of the qualifying, and limiting term "concealed carry".
Texas case law to date does not interpret 46.02(a) to apply to the CONCEALMENT of ANY ARMS AMIDST, OR UNDER CLOTHING - which was the whole intent of Article 1, Section 23.
Last edited by rushcreek2; 07-21-2011 at 07:06 PM.
I am not from Texas but I am really surprised when I read that open carry was not legal in texas. I always heard stories about texas and that lots of people open carry. I always thought of it as the real wild west of states. I thought if there was one state where you could actually open carry and not get harrsed it was Texas.
Surpried that you guys down there can't open carry. Kind of goes against what you state is mainly known for up here, guns and cowboys.
I am from North East originally, where guys are pretty much banned.
Last edited by Las Vegas shooter; 02-12-2012 at 12:54 PM.
Much discussion has transpired on this forum regarding the peculiar Texas legal environment regarding handguns. I won't attempt a comprehensive recap.
Suffice to say that it all started in 1871 when the Texas legislature attempted to address the perceived problem of the carrying of concealed weapons - expressing as much, if not more, a concern over the concealment of Bowie Knives as handguns.
Basically under Texas law the carrying of a handgun in public has been viewed as presumptive "concealment of arms" due to the concealibility of handguns. This is why it is perfectly legal to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun OPENLY in Texas.
The Section 46.02 general prohibition of otherwise LAWFUL handgun carry had never been a big issue in Texas until relatively recently (the last 3 decades). Most Texans who routinely carried handguns for the lawful purpose of self-defense did so with a degree of caution- but they did it anyway. In 1995 Texans were afforded the privilege of obtaining a CONCEALED handgun license, and to this day the handgun must be concealed when publicly carried under authority of a license.
It is an awkward situation , but will likely be remedied during the next legislative session in 2013 when it is hoped that routine OC will be an allowed option under the CHL.
Last edited by rushcreek2; 02-12-2012 at 06:12 PM.
rushcreek2, What remedy are we looking at during the 2013 legislative session? From reading several of the Texas discussions/threads, many people on here are at odds about it. For example, some people want unlicensed open carry and could care less about concealed carry. This would make it to where someone with a concealed carry license wouldn't have to worry about 'accidentally' exposing their firearm. This would also benefit people who don't like having to get a permission slip from the government to carry a firearm providing they also don't mind carrying openly. Some people just want the CHL to be made into a LTCH which means you would need a license to carry a handgun, but you could carry it anyway you want (i.e. openly or concealed). Personally, I'm for Constitutional Carry, although the political reality is that we won't be able to 'in a short time' make that possible in Texas. I'm not one for compromise, but at this point I'd find it acceptable to convert our CHLs to LTCHs that are easier and far less expensive to get. If you need to know what I'm referencing, I'm leaning more towards the way Indiana handles it's permits.
That whole guns and cowboys things is a myth/stereotype perpetuated by Hollywood. You're more likely to find those caliber (no pun intended) of people in Wyoming or Montana. Texas is largely comprised of Mexicans, blacks and preppy white kids.
Back on topic. It surprises me as well that Texas is a non OC state.
Last edited by .40S&W; 02-12-2012 at 11:51 PM.
I'm from New York. I've been in Texas for 16+ years. You know what happens when I tell people I'm from New York? They assume I mean New York City. As it turns out, New York City makes up less than 0.86% of the land area of New York. So it's possible, just possible, that I don't mean New York City. For some reason, though, people have their dumb-ass perceptions and assumptions, and not only do they keep them, they exercise them. There's a degree of reasonableness to expecting I'm from New York City, since the population of that metropolitan area represents over 97% of the population of New York. The thing is, assuming Texans ride horses is like assuming New Yorkers milk cows, because the population proportions are pretty similar in that regard.
The cities of Dallas, Austin, Houston, and San Antonio are exactly as metropolitan as any of the major cities in the rest of the country, like Los Angeles, Chicago, Boston, or New York City. They're also a good bit larger, more populous, wealthier, and more modern than a lot of the big cities in the rest of the country. Most significantly, however, the majority of the populations of the major cities in Texas are not from Texas, and I'm not talking about immigrants. Dallas, in particular, is predominantly populated by people from the Northeast, Colorado, and California, who came here because, after Silicon Valley, it's the biggest technology hotspot in the country.
There are people in Texas who ride horses. There are people in every state in the country who ride horses. The proportion of Texans who ride horses approaches zero. I don't think Texas is likely to be particularly unregulated with regard to firearms, ever, since the state is chock-a-block with the panicky, gun-fearing ******** from your (and, originally, my) neck of the woods. If you want unrestrictive firearms laws, look at Washington State, of all places. I'm planning to move there in a little over a year, and I'll be strapping a gun to my hip, in the open, the day I get there.
And seriously. Wild west? What god damn century do you think this is?
Last edited by ()pen(arry; 02-13-2012 at 10:16 AM.
OK - I appeared before the Texas Public Safety Sub-committee last April in Austin and delivered my 2 cents worth as to why open carry should be an option under the Texas Concealed Handgun Licensing authority.
The Sub-Committee was very receptive to the proposal that the 46.035a open carry restriction affecting CHL holders, and reciprocal permitees be repealed.
My sense of the political climate is that ........The prevailing political winds across the Great State of Texas will produce an OC/CC CHL law in 2013. Texas law enforcement supports this approach. It will be a very good step in the right direction. Stay tuned in.
Last edited by rushcreek2; 03-16-2012 at 06:11 PM.
The body politic in Texas is right proud of their CHL program and they should be. The State respects CHL holders enough to allow them to enter the State Capitol while armed.
Texas law enforcement is generally supportive of CHL CC/OC - so I think this will be the first step towards ( hopefully) constitutional carry in Texas.
OC is subject to private property prerogatives under any circumstances, but a little more exposure of the armed condition of law-abiding Texans in the public square will reduce public mischief.
What we really need is the ag opinion on what traveling is
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
Having read the proposed bill. That is a step in the right direction but does NOT fix the overall problem that people in Texas should NOT be required to have a permit in order to carry their handgun. I am currently stationed in Colorado and Carrying in that state is FANTASTIC! I just put my holster on and carry my XD. It's nice. No one gets all freaked out. This is the MAIN reason a started a petition for Texans to be able to open carry in Texas.
The Link to the petition is on here. (I just started it on the 27th.)
Not sure if I'm ind or not but I didn't see a link to the petition on the fb page
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...the petition I found/used (as linked above) is on the right of that Facebook page towards the top, in the small white rectangular box that says "Also on" and then gives this link (with a "globe" icon preceeding it).
Last edited by cloudcroft; 03-02-2012 at 09:43 PM.
The intent of Article 1, Section 23 of the Texas Constitution is PERFECTLY clear to any objective mind when read in the context of the discussions chronicled in the 1876 Journal . The only concern addressed by "...but the Legislature shall have power under law to regulate THE WEARING OF ARMS"... (as in on, about, OR UNDER one's CLOTHING = concealed!!!)
Interestingly under the Texas Constitution , except for the express power provided to the State government by Section 23 " to regulate the wearing of arms "(CONCEALED CARRY) the right to keep & bear arms in Texas is excluded from the State's governmental powers.
The 51 constitutions comprising the law of the land within the several United States of America are essentially LEGAL COMPASSES intended to assist this constitutional republic in maintaining a steady political course - rather than having to resort to cyclical revolutions.
The political winds may blow this nation off course for a time, but adjustments will inevitably be made.
The body politic( hopefully) comprised of our aggregate common sense will ultimately persevere.
This republic is currently enduring a constitutional crisis like none before it. Nonetheless our Republic will survive - and become stronger.
I refer to the ever-growing realization that one of those "undocumented" (illegal) aliens is currently occupying the White House, and neither the federal judiciary, or the Congress apparently has the courage and fortitude to tender an eviction notice.
We the People will have to effect the eviction in November.
Last edited by rushcreek2; 03-10-2012 at 11:01 AM.
Ah probably can't see it on an iPhone that's probably why
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It has been stated before, but it warrants repeating -
The only power that the Texas legislature has relating to the RTKBA is to regulate the wearing of arms- whether it be the category of arms worn, the manner/style of arms worn , the location in which they are worn, the day/hour they are worn, or WHO may NOT wear them.
For 119 years the Texas Legislature did not regulate the above aspects of the actual "wearing" of arms, but chose rather to regulate particular classes of arms ( handgun, "illegal" knives, clubs, etc- all readily concealable)
Public possession of a handgun still remains a statutory criminal offense subject only to certain specified exceptions in Texas( CHL, sporting, traveling) even though the legislature has no legitimate constitutional power to regulate anything beyond the aforementioned "wearing" of a handgun- which "wearing" has of course been defined by Texas courts to be possession on, or about one's person- whether actually "worn" or not.
So in 1995 the Legislature voted in favor of a licensing program to allow for the CONCEALED wearing of handguns - even though there was and still is no State statute expressly prohibiting the wearing of a CONCEALED handgun - only a statute prohibiting the "wearing" of a handgun at all except under certain specific circumstances.
My point is this - the CHL is a license allowing a person to do something that the Texas Constitution says they can already do. What the CHL really does is restrict that "something" a person already has a lawful right to do- by mandating that the "something" be hidden from public observation. This essentially stands the intent of Article 1, Section 23 of the 1876 Texas Constitution completely on its head.
I guess I feel compelled to regurgitate the above thoughts every so often in the hope that someone will "turn the lights on " in the Texas Capitol in January 2013.