Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: I had an interesting talk with the local PD

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    694

    I had an interesting talk with the local PD

    I stopped by a garage sale to visit with a friend today. There was a Sequim pd officer there. I've seen him there before and in the past he has commented on my open carrying. Today the first words out of his mouth was "I was just thinking about you". As the conversation went on it seems there was an open carrier at one of the two lavender festivals going on in town. The pd made him leave. It seems there is a city ordinance (according to the officer) that prohibits open carry at the festivals.
    He referred me to section 9 of the city ordinances. So I checked and did not find anything specific. I did find a few things that might be what he was referring to.
    Title 9.24 Offenses against public peace
    and 9.36 Weapons

    9.24.10
    B.9. Any person who creates or participates in any noise, disturbance or any other demonstration calculated or intended to frighten or intimidate or disturb any person.

    9.36.10D. It is unlawful for any person to carry any firearm or other dangerous weapon upon any premises within the city limits of the city where alcoholic beverages are sold or consumed; provided that, law enforcement officers in uniform, or on police related business, shall be exempt from the provisions of this subsection.


    I don't know if alcoholic beverages was/are being served there because I never had any intention of going to either one. One being on the high school property and the other in Cary Blake park. I don't like crowds.

    What I want to know is are either of those city ordinances preempted by RCW 9.41.290? Particularly if you are not causing a disturbance (9.24.10).

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lolo, MT
    Posts
    160
    9.36.10D is preempted by state law. RCW 9.41.300 specifies when and where firearms aren't allowed. RCW 9.41.290 states that cities can't make there own laws on the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by RCW 9.41.300
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or
    Basically, there have to be signs up saying "no one under 21 allowed". Cities can't ban firearms at a festival unless the state liquor control board says the WHOLE festival is off limits to persons under 21.

    Basically, you can OC, but you can't carry into the beer gardens.
    "If you don't want to be shorn, don't be sheep!"

  3. #3
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Kitsap County
    Posts
    872
    RCW 9.41.290
    State preemption.


    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

    Basically no city can impose a law/ policy/ ordinance stricter than what the state of Washington has. "The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state" Look at Seattle the new Major I think his name is Mr. Idiot tried banning all guns from all city park, that lasted about a month. because his laws were more strict than what the state has imposed it was quickly over turned and deemed illegal. The exception to this would be as mentioned above would be the beer gardens or bars, but this is also regulated by the state.
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  4. #4
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yakima, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,463
    Quote Originally Posted by therealcombat View Post
    Basically, there have to be signs up saying "no one under 21 allowed". Cities can't ban firearms at a festival unless the state liquor control board says the WHOLE festival is off limits to persons under 21.
    WOW where did you get this from? Looks like there is some mixing and trying to match RCW's, though it does not work that way.

    RCW 70.108.020
    Definitions.



    For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

    For Clarity

    RCW 70.108.150
    Firearms — Penalty.


    It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.

    Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars and not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than ten days and not more than ninety days or by both such fine and imprisonment.

    Along with

    RCW 9.41.290
    State preemption.


    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

    [1994 sp.s. c 7 428; 1985 c 428 1; 1983 c 232 12.]

    Notes:
    Last edited by BigDave; 07-16-2011 at 09:13 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  5. #5
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Marysville, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,522
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Here we go....
    Attachment 6360
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  6. #6
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Kitsap County
    Posts
    872
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post


    RCW 70.108.150
    Firearms Penalty.


    It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.

    Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars and not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than ten days and not more than ninety days or by both such fine and imprisonment.
    I have never seen this one before I had to click on the link to make sure it was real. The state actually has come out with a RCW banning carry at outdoor music festival!? Sounds a bit random to me, Thanks for the post I never would have guessed that
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  7. #7
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I have never seen this one before I had to click on the link to make sure it was real. The state actually has come out with a RCW banning carry at outdoor music festival!? Sounds a bit random to me, Thanks for the post I never would have guessed that
    Surprised? The Statute has been there since 1972. Right after WA State had it's own "Woodstock" at Satsop.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,137

    Raspberry festival

    Lori and I went to the Raspberry festival in Lynden on Saturday with absolutely no issues. Walked all over town, saw the Car show, 3 on 3 basketball, and a bunch of antique shops. We were greeted with nothing but smiles.

  9. #9
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yakima, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,463
    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I have never seen this one before I had to click on the link to make sure it was real. The state actually has come out with a RCW banning carry at outdoor music festival!? Sounds a bit random to me, Thanks for the post I never would have guessed that
    You must apply the definition of what is a music festival and likely in the one referenced, it would have to be considered a Outdoor Music Festival or a Music Festival thus the firearms restriction would not apply.

    RCW 70.108.020
    Definitions.
    For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED,

    That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.
    Last edited by BigDave; 07-18-2011 at 01:31 AM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lolo, MT
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    For Clarity

    RCW 70.108.150
    Firearms Penalty.


    It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.

    Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars and not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than ten days and not more than ninety days or by both such fine and imprisonment.
    Whoa! Never noticed that one before. Thanks for the correction.
    "If you don't want to be shorn, don't be sheep!"

  11. #11
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    Even with that I think Sequim's ordinance is out of bounds. At least that part that was published in the OP. I have known about the "outdoor music festival" restriction for a long time, but I'm not sure the lavender festival qualifies???? Is it a "music festival"?

    Did you notice that 9.36.10D even says that a LEO has to be on "police business?". Anyway, that ord. is definately out of bounds.
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-17-2011 at 03:58 PM.

  12. #12
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yakima, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,463
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Even with that I think Sequim's ordinance is out of bounds. At least that part that was published in the OP. I have known about the "outdoor music festival" restriction for a long time, but I'm not sure the lavender festival qualifies???? Is it a "music festival"?

    Did you notice that 9.36.10D even says that a LEO has to be on "police business?". Anyway, that ord. is definately out of bounds.
    http://lavenderfestival.com/componen...5-15thfestival

    This is not an Outdoor Music Festival or Music Festival by definition in;

    Outdoor Music Festival RCW 70.108 Definitions.

    For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED,

    That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  13. #13
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Kitsap County
    Posts
    872
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Surprised? The Statute has been there since 1972. Right after WA State had it's own "Woodstock" at Satsop.
    I was born in 1986 I don't know much about Woodstock but I thought it was fairly peaceful
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I was born in 1986 I don't know much about Woodstock but I thought it was fairly peaceful
    Woodstock was peaceful. So was "Satsop". Legislators were swayed by the various law enforcement agencies that "feared" they might not be as peaceful in the future. Memories of the "Altamont Free Concert" were still fairly fresh where a concert goer pulled a gun and was stabbed to death by a Hell's Angel. It was suggested that the Hell's Angels were hired to provide security. Needless to say, this concert was as violent as Woodstock was peaceful.

    As usual, our legislators reacted once the "Outdoor Concert" scene arrived in Washington and passed this Statute. Not in response to incidents here but in a preemptive action.
    Last edited by amlevin; 07-18-2011 at 09:51 AM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  15. #15
    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Port Orchard Wa. /Granite Oklahoma
    Posts
    836
    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I was born in 1986 I don't know much about Woodstock but I thought it was fairly peaceful
    Oh man did you have to say you were born in 86 now I feel so old I was 6 years from retiring by then
    1911er (old fart)
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

    DEMAND IT
    Congress SHALL NOT receive A salary greater than any service member and will be given EQUIVELANT insurance as any service member

    I came into this world kicking and screaming covered in someone else's blood. And if necessary to protect the Constitution of The United States of AMERICA. I will go out the same way

    All hail the Domain of Neptunus Rex

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •