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Thread: Stop & I.D Oregon

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    Stop & I.D Oregon

    Hey everyone, I'm sitting here wondering what if I get stopped by an officer for open carry..I live in Tigard,OR an have a CHL for it's county.
    I know I am legally able to open carry with my magazine inside my weapon but just not one in the chamber..Now..Just because I have my weapon visible inside my shoulder holster with the magazine attached does that mean I have to legally show the officer I.D cause he demands it???? I value my privacy. Is there any statute law that supports Stop & I.D? Does any of you have richual statements you say to an officer once your stopped that proves that you don't have to show them I.D if you haven't broke any LAWS.If so they would be great advise to me if you don't mind sharing them!? Thank's!

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    There is a thread about this several posts down

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ile-open-carry

    Carrying loaded is legal as well. Since you have a CHL you can ignore city restrictions on loaded open carry

    Sent from my PC36100
    Last edited by Dogbait; 07-17-2011 at 07:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbait View Post
    There is a thread about this several posts down

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ile-open-carry

    Carrying loaded is legal as well. Since you have a CHL you can ignore city restrictions on loaded open carry

    Sent from my PC36100

    Thanks DogBait.

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    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbait View Post
    Carrying loaded is legal as well. Since you have a CHL you can ignore city restrictions on loaded open carry
    +1

    By all means, put one in the chamber then top off your mag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cremator75 View Post
    +1

    By all means, put one in the chamber then top off your mag.
    You can have one hot in the chamber too with a CHL

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    You may carry fully loaded +1 (with one in the chamber) permitted or not.

    You also while open carry, are not required to show ID nor your permit, UNLESS you are in a city who has written ordinances against loaded carry. Having a CHL preempts you from the restrictions, however I am sure the LEO would use it as an excuse to check you out.

    I however have never been bothered in any city who has ordinances against loaded carry, while OC'ing. As far as that goes, its likely a non issue.

    I am curious however. The "required" training for an Oregon CHL should have covered those nuances for you. Your CHL even though it is from Washington County here in Oregon, doesn't limit you to that county. By your postings, you mention your area as if it is important. It is not important. If you have a CHL it is good for all over the state of Oregon.

    Open Carry is a responsbility. I would recommend hitting up the ORS 166 section here, reading it thoroughly and again if you have too, until you understand what it says and means. Oregon CHL holders have very few limitations to where/how they can carry.

    That way, when an instructor or LEO or other "authority" figure attempts telling you what you are doing is against the law (such as carrying with one in the chamber) you know that he is lying to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    You may carry fully loaded +1 (with one in the chamber) permitted or not.

    You also while open carry, are not required to show ID nor your permit, UNLESS you are in a city who has written ordinances against loaded carry. Having a CHL preempts you from the restrictions, however I am sure the LEO would use it as an excuse to check you out.

    I however have never been bothered in any city who has ordinances against loaded carry, while OC'ing. As far as that goes, its likely a non issue.

    I am curious however. The "required" training for an Oregon CHL should have covered those nuances for you. Your CHL even though it is from Washington County here in Oregon, doesn't limit you to that county. By your postings, you mention your area as if it is important. It is not important. If you have a CHL it is good for all over the state of Oregon.

    Open Carry is a responsbility. I would recommend hitting up the ORS 166 section here, reading it thoroughly and again if you have too, until you understand what it says and means. Oregon CHL holders have very few limitations to where/how they can carry.

    That way, when an instructor or LEO or other "authority" figure attempts telling you what you are doing is against the law (such as carrying with one in the chamber) you know that he is lying to you.

    I took my class @ gunbroker in tigard an the officer who was instructing the class told us that a bullet in the camber wasn't allowed.He also stated that we are required to show I.D to an officer once stop.Then all of a sudden I started hearing otherwise an did my own research an came across that same link you sent me.I was just a bit confused.Now that I have the proof ill just write it down and hand it to the officer whenever i'm stopped. Thanks for your help.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    It would be hard to "provide proof" to someone in reality. What a lot of people seem to have forgotten these days is the laws we have don't "permit or allow" us to do things. There are laws that "prevent or make it illegal" to do certain things. There is NO law that governs that you cannot carry with a chambered round loaded. You might find this officer again and ask him what ORS section bans having a chambered round in a handgun, especially for CHL holders.

    Essentially the law doesn't allow us to open carry. It merely does not prevent it, as there is no laws against it.

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    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    The required CHL class is a joke. At least half of what I was fed at mine turned out to be opinion or just plane wrong on the instructors part. Read up and know the laws. That's the only real way to know you're in the right. If anything goes down, you'll know where to start to prove your in the right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    It would be hard to "provide proof" to someone in reality. What a lot of people seem to have forgotten these days is the laws we have don't "permit or allow" us to do things. There are laws that "prevent or make it illegal" to do certain things. There is NO law that governs that you cannot carry with a chambered round loaded. You might find this officer again and ask him what ORS section bans having a chambered round in a handgun, especially for CHL holders.

    Essentially the law doesn't allow us to open carry. It merely does not prevent it, as there is no laws against it.
    When I first started off carrying I stopped because a tigard sheriff told me I wasn't allowed to..But now i'm no longer illiterate of my rights I will continue to follow my gut feeling. 8+1

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    The problem suddenly becomes clear....
    I kind of figured that as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cremator75 View Post
    The required CHL class is a joke. At least half of what I was fed at mine turned out to be opinion or just plane wrong on the instructors part. Read up and know the laws. That's the only real way to know you're in the right. If anything goes down, you'll know where to start to prove your in the right.
    You got that right about those classes, they are jokes. Never did they once flash a sheet of paper or yet alone hand out one to inform us wit visual proof of our right.We were just give'n a fonee old packet on how to use a handgun and a thousand different opinions from one mans perspective..Everything happens for certain reasons, for that alone I'm studying the Law everyday.

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    A Person has NO Duty to Identify Himself to Police under Oregon Law, unless; Oregon Law Specifically Requires Identification for what that Man is doing, such as Driving, Having an Alcohol License to Sell Alcohol, a CHL for Circumstances Described under Dogbaits' Post, etc..
    Last edited by aadvark; 07-19-2011 at 12:50 PM.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Are you sure???...I do not think a random stop and license check is legal in Oregon if I remember correctly (haven't lived in OR for years, but I did in the 50's and 60's). If I remember correctly, you have to be doing something you shouldn't before then can stop you and check your license..

    Think about this: You are driving a vehicle down the highway. You are not driving irratically, the vehicle has no defects, you have your seat belt on and are going the speed limit....I do not think that an officer can just pull you over to check your license...am I not correct? I know for sure here in WA they can't, and I am pretty sure in OR it is the same.

    Anyway, If my memory is correct, if the police are not allowed to randomly stop and check you drivers license, they would also not be allowed to stop and check any other license, unless you were doing something wrong that would raise their suspician? Walking down the street OC is a perfectly legal activity, with a random glance no-one can tell if the weapon is loaded, or not. No one can tell if the person is licensed, or not, and as it is a legal activity, it should be just like driving a vehicle properly..a random check would not be legal on the officers part. That doesn't mean they won't check, it just means they are not supposed to.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    I must have gotten lucky with my class. It didn't go over the law thoroghly, however.. He stated the law, and afterwards, his opinion of it. He made clear that while he did not agree with OC, having a CHL did not remove your right to do so. Some other things here and there, he also mentioned the fact that the police have ZERO duty to protect citizens. Mostly the "class" was fluff, as there were a few people from the PDX area there. Taught them how to load a magazine and bs like that. Honestly, some in that class kinda scared me, with what most would assume to be common sense things.

    At any rate, I was pleased as the class wasn't full of bs, albeit being about mostly hand holding to help people understand the basics of handgun operation. I remember him pointing out as well, before carrying a weapon to be very sure of how it operates. Just because they look similar doesn't mean they operate similarly either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    I must have gotten lucky with my class. It didn't go over the law thoroghly, however.. He stated the law, and afterwards, his opinion of it. He made clear that while he did not agree with OC, having a CHL did not remove your right to do so. Some other things here and there, he also mentioned the fact that the police have ZERO duty to protect citizens. Mostly the "class" was fluff, as there were a few people from the PDX area there. Taught them how to load a magazine and bs like that. Honestly, some in that class kinda scared me, with what most would assume to be common sense things.

    At any rate, I was pleased as the class wasn't full of bs, albeit being about mostly hand holding to help people understand the basics of handgun operation. I remember him pointing out as well, before carrying a weapon to be very sure of how it operates. Just because they look similar doesn't mean they operate similarly either.
    I wish I was in that class..Mine was full of ******** opinions of another man.Not official facts of the laws an our options to carry.

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    my class, here in medford was a total waste.... it was full of opinion, most of it wrong.... the last 5 minute of the class the instructor passed around a glock and a smith snubbie.....

    it was a very good thing that i went into to class already aware of the fact that it was just a 4 hour bs step to getting my concealed carry permit.... i got out of it exactly what i expected, my permit

    my knowledge of the law comes from ready the statutes, discussing issue here, listening to others opinions and then researching their opinions to see if they are fact based.... i am responsible for me and my freedom, so the un-informed opinions of some guy in a 4 hour class means nothing.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    You guys should have taken the course over at http://www.mdgunsafety.com/

    It's free, takes 30 minutes, and you don't need to leave the house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    You guys should have taken the course over at http://www.mdgunsafety.com/

    It's free, takes 30 minutes, and you don't need to leave the house.
    now i find out..... lol

  20. #20
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    You guys should have taken the course over at http://www.mdgunsafety.com/

    It's free, takes 30 minutes, and you don't need to leave the house.
    Sometimes, I need a good reason to leave my "residence". >.>

    At any rate, that looks like a good alternative for those who are already knowledgeable somewhat about what they are getting into. Those who have no idea about safety issues, etc.. I'll still send them to the guy my wife and I went too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    You may carry fully loaded +1 (with one in the chamber) permitted or not.

    You also while open carry, are not required to show ID nor your permit, UNLESS you are in a city who has written ordinances against loaded carry. Having a CHL preempts you from the restrictions, however I am sure the LEO would use it as an excuse to check you out.
    In terms of OC:

    Officers would still have to have reasonable suspension (ability to detain) that you committed a crime or that a crime is about to be committed to stop and ID. They cannot know if the weapon you OC on you is loaded or not. They could try saying that them not knowing is reasonable suspicion but that's pushing it. For them to know or not they would have to examine the firearm and that definitely should not happen unless they have reasonable suspension (ability to detain). ORS 166.380 is the only provision which allows a LEO to examine a firearm posses by anyone on their person while IN or ON a PUBLIC BUILDING. Public buildings are defined as a hospital, a capitol building, a public or private school, a college or university, a city hall....

    However to carry in these places one needs a CHL and can carry loaded or unloaded.... so whats the point of 166.380? To allow a LEO to harass if he is the type.
    Last edited by Historyman1942; 07-22-2011 at 03:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Historyman1942 View Post
    In terms of OC:

    Officers would still have to have reasonable suspension (ability to detain) that you committed a crime or that a crime is about to be committed to stop and ID. They cannot know if the weapon you OC on you is loaded or not. They could try saying that them not knowing is reasonable suspicion but that's pushing it. For them to know or not they would have to examine the firearm and that definitely should not happen unless they have reasonable suspension (ability to detain). ORS 166.380 is the only provision which allows a LEO to examine a firearm posses by anyone on their person while IN or ON a PUBLIC BUILDING. Public buildings are defined as a hospital, a capitol building, a public or private school, a college or university, a city hall....

    However to carry in these places one needs a CHL and can carry loaded or unloaded.... so whats the point of 166.380? To allow a LEO to harass if he is the type.
    I can truely relate to that.An by me being a darker skin color it makes things even harder when stopped for open carry..They think every black male who are not in the military are gang members an criminals.It's a shame how they even waste their time.Guess I'll just have to enforce the law myself.

  23. #23
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    You also while open carry, are not required to show ID nor your permit, UNLESS you are in a city who has written ordinances against loaded carry. Having a CHL preempts you from the restrictions, however I am sure the LEO would use it as an excuse to check you out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Historyman1942
    Officers would still have to have reasonable suspension (ability to detain) that you committed a crime or that a crime is about to be committed to stop and ID. They cannot know if the weapon you OC on you is loaded or not. They could try saying that them not knowing is reasonable suspicion but that's pushing it.
    Pretty much what I was getting at. I can see where officers in those towns/cities would abuse the law just to check you out or hassle you.

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    Wink

    While I am a newcomer to this forum, I have had an Oregon and Utah CHL for many many years. I am also very proficient and train regularly

    My comments are:

    1) An Oregon CHL is not limited to the country in which it is issued. It is valid statewide (and in some other states), ORS and other states' restrictions notwithstanding.

    2) There is no prohibition on carrying with a chambered round, period. The LEO who said/inferred that is plain wrong.

    3) Portland sucks

    That is all
    Last edited by KenHorse; 07-23-2011 at 04:07 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Though I don't currently OC due to a slight disability, I'd suggest the following for beginners, since I have studied the paradigm:

    1. OC at first in small groups of like minds, each person OC-ing in a good holster;
    2. Carry a recorder, or two, activated WHEN you leave the house;
    3. Know the handful of statutes which apply to having a HG, especially in California;
    4. Print out and carry the CHL/CHP guidelines, even though you are OC-ing, have on hand the 'notify' rules, esp. in Ohio if you operate a MV while OC-ing;
    5. Don't go to stupid places with stupid people, don't consume intoxicants, be alert.

    I'd strongly emphasize #2 - it's your only defense against false charges.

    Good luck!
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