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Thread: Carry your CWL when you Open Carry?

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Carry your CWL when you Open Carry?

    176.60 (2g) requires that you carry your CWL and State ID and display it when requested by law enforcement anytime you carry concealed, But it says nothing about Open Carry, even when you are in a place that would require a CWL. I know what common sense tells me and where case law would fall, but they did not require it in Act 35.

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    I would think you would want to have it with you in case you inadvertently wander into the 1000 foot GFSZ area. I know the law allows it to be produced later, but why get into a potential hassle with law enforcement when it is just as easy to carry the card.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    McX
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    close as my gun, perhapse closer.

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    I might just leave my card in my vehicle when I oc. (On private property anyway.) That way, I still don't have to do the dance, and will be covered if I enter a school zone. Another exception, when the permit is needed to carry in a specific place. Then of course I would have my "permission slip".
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Of course I will have the permit on me at all times. The mere presence of that piece of paper will strike fear into the hearts of evildoers, cause them to repent of their sins, and join a monastery.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    Of course I will have the permit on me at all times. The mere presence of that piece of paper will strike fear into the hearts of evildoers, cause them to repent of their sins, and join a monastery.
    I may have to move back to WI to get a WI permit so I too can have such power.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    Tatoo the info on your rear, and then go carry in Madison.

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logables View Post
    Yes I will at all times, just as I carry my DL and fishing and hunting licenses at all times. OR
    There are many on this forum who believe you to be a troll. I have an excellent way to dispel that rumor if you are up to it.

    I will soon be returning to WI to teach another UT Concealed Firearm Permit Course and the NRA Basic Pistol Course. If you are not a "troll" and are a legitimate lover the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution, I would be happy to meet with you and provide you with this training. The NRA Basic Pistol Course will provide you with Nationally Recognized Basic Training in Firearms Familiarity and Safety (but no tactical training). But that will meet the WI requirement for training for a WI Concealed Weapon Permit.

    I may be returning to WI this weekend to attend a family reunion.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    176.60 (2g) requires that you carry your CWL and State ID and display it when requested by law enforcement anytime you carry concealed, But it says nothing about Open Carry, even when you are in a place that would require a CWL. I know what common sense tells me and where case law would fall, but they did not require it in Act 35.
    I hear where you are going with this. Similar, in PA we can OC anywhere in the state, except Philadelphia, without a LTCF. If you are OCing, you do not need to present a permit when the LEO stops you and asks for it. The trick for us is there is no OC in a vehicle. So unless you are walking everywhere, we need the LTCF anyway.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logables View Post
    Thank you for the offer, but I have ample proof of military training with the M1 and 1911 pistol during Navy boot camp. This training will also meet the Wisconsin requirement for a CWP. I also have completed HSC as a youth.

    I am a legitimate supporter of the 2A, but lover is going a bit far. As far as the so called troll part, I care not what a handful of posters opinion of me is. The rules of this forum dictate my reporting issues. OR
    It's CWL. Concealed Weapon License. McX's "we don't need no steenkin permits" mantra got to the legislators so the called it a liscense.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logables View Post
    So, they posted an artcle written by Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel in which he used the word permit 19 times.

    While Act 35 / SB93 uses the following language:

    165.25 (12) RULES REGARDING CONCEALED WEAPONS LICENSES.
    CONCEALED WEAPONS LICENSE
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 07-19-2011 at 01:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    I may have to move back to WI to get a WI permit so I too can have such power.
    All of the people that took your "airport" class, know that Utah is soooo much better. :-)
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

  13. #13
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    There are many on this forum who believe you to be a troll. I have an excellent way to dispel that rumor if you are up to it.

    I will soon be returning to WI to teach another UT Concealed Firearm Permit Course and the NRA Basic Pistol Course. If you are not a "troll" and are a legitimate lover the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution, I would be happy to meet with you and provide you with this training. The NRA Basic Pistol Course will provide you with Nationally Recognized Basic Training in Firearms Familiarity and Safety (but no tactical training). But that will meet the WI requirement for training for a WI Concealed Weapon Permit.

    I may be returning to WI this weekend to attend a family reunion.
    JPM, lugnuts would want a posse discount.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    There are many on this forum who believe you to be a troll. I have an excellent way to dispel that rumor if you are up to it.

    I will soon be returning to WI to teach another UT Concealed Firearm Permit Course and the NRA Basic Pistol Course. If you are not a "troll" and are a legitimate lover the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution, I would be happy to meet with you and provide you with this training. The NRA Basic Pistol Course will provide you with Nationally Recognized Basic Training in Firearms Familiarity and Safety (but no tactical training). But that will meet the WI requirement for training for a WI Concealed Weapon Permit.

    I may be returning to WI this weekend to attend a family reunion.
    He is too good for YOUR training as he said. Should be proof enough that he is a troll.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logables View Post
    Call it what you may, I call it a permit and I will gladly pay for it. Plus, as the thread asks, I will carry it at all times and enjoy every minute of it. OR
    I call it a permission slip, and I will carry it even if I do not have a gun on me (don't know how often that will happen). The school zone issue alone is good reason to keep it on you.
    I can't say I am "happy" with it, but I can say I will also enjoy every minute of it...

  16. #16
    McX
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    to me it's just a steeeeeenkin tax.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    So, they posted an artcle written by Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel in which he used the word permit 19 times.

    While Act 35 / SB93 uses the following language:



    CONCEALED WEAPONS LICENSE

    You'll see that forever. In PA, it's a "License To Carry Firearms"...issued by the County Sheriffs.

    Pretty much everybody in the media and even a LOT of folks INSIDE the sheriffs depts call it a "concealed weapons permit."

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Originally I was going to get the permit just for the "school zone thing", but now it seems like there might be a question of the legality of open carry in a vehicle, as to if it would be considered legal open carry, or concealed carry as the sidearm might not be visible from the drivers side window..

    So based on the above reasons, I will be getting the permit and will be carrying it with me at ALL times...and open carrying 95 - 98% of the time....

    Outdoorsman1
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    logables
    Yes I will at all times, just as I carry my DL and fishing and hunting licenses at all times. OR
    Wow, first Non-Troll comment I have read from logables... (called him by real name due to content of post..)

    logables...Thank you for the offer, but I have ample proof of military training with the M1 and 1911 pistol during Navy boot camp. This training will also meet the Wisconsin requirement for a CWP. I also have completed HSC as a youth.

    I am a legitimate supporter of the 2A, but lover is going a bit far. As far as the so called troll part, I care not what a handful of posters opinion of me is. The rules of this forum dictate my reporting issues. OR
    This is also a seemingly non-troll post....

    logables....A discount would be nice, I would donate the money saved to people who have paranoid delusions. OR
    This post... not so much...

    The ONLY reason I broke my self imposed mandate NOT to respond to any if logables posts was that here he had a couple that read ok to me.... If his manner of posting resorts back it his trolling days, I will continue not to feed him by NOT replying to anything he posts...

    logables, ... I know, I know, how I feel about you and your posts matters not to you and you will continue posting as you see fit....

    Just Sayin...

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 07-19-2011 at 12:29 PM.
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

    George Cecil (18911970) American advertising copywriter

    Outdoorsman1
    Member: Wisconsin Carry Inc.
    Member: Silver Lake Sportsmans Club
    Wisconsin C.C.W. License Holder
    Utah State Permit Holder.
    Arizona State Permit Holder.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    175.60 (2g) CARRYING A CONCEALED WEAPON; POSSESSION AND DISPLAY OF LICENSE DOCUMENT OR AUTHORIZATION.
    (a)
    A licensee or an out−of−state licensee may carry a concealed weapon anywhere in this state except as provided under subs. (15m) and (16) and ss. 943.13 (1m) (c) and 948.605 (2) (b) 1r.
    (b) Unless the licensee or out−of−state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee shall have with him or her his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out−of−state licensee shall have with him or her his or her out−of−state license and photographic identification card at all times during which he or she is carrying a concealed weapon.
    (c) Unless the licensee or out−of−state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out−of−state licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her out−of−state license and photographic identification card to a law enforcement officer upon the request of the law enforcement officer while the law enforcement officer is acting in an official capacity and with lawful authority.




    Like I said in the OP, I know what common sense tells me, and I am pretty sure what case law would end up saying, but currently, there is no statutory requirement to have license and ID in your possesion or to show it if you OC in a school zone, bar/restaraunt, or public building. Currently, the only statutory requirement to have it in your possesion and show it is if you carry concealed. Just a little detail they missed. LEO may use this to say you have to conceal it if you carry in a school zone, bar/restaraunt, or public building. IDK.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971
    The mere presence of that piece of paper will strike fear into the hearts of evildoers, cause them to repent of their sins, and join a monastery.
    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092
    I may have to move back to WI to get a WI permit so I too can have such power.
    You have an even better super power: The Black Stripe!
    Able to tame misbehaving LEOs with a single glance... the thought still makes me smile.

    ...carrying a concealed weapon shall display... license and photographic identification card to a law enforcement officer upon the request of the law enforcement officer while the law enforcement officer is acting in an official capacity and with lawful authority.
    I'm very glad they added that part. The way it was originally written, any LEO could approach anyone at any time with no RAS & demand to see a permit.

    I know what common sense tells me, and I am pretty sure what case law would end up saying, but currently, there is no statutory requirement...
    And the law requires DOJ to start accepting applications 01SEP, too, but they appear to have no problem ignoring the spirit of that law, either.

    I'll probably have it with me most of the time, just like most of my other permits (the ones that fit easily into a purse or pocket).
    I'd rather not have the hassle of having to explain to the Nice Officer that carrying in a school zone with a permit is legal,
    and no, I don't have to actually have it on me,
    and yes, s/he is allowed to call DOJ to verify I have a permit,
    and even if s/he chooses not to verify my permit, it's only a ticket (which I would challenge in court),
    and no, I do not consent to any searches or seizures (which they don't listen to anyway)...

    But if the hassle is about OC, in a place that doesn't require a permit, no, they're not seeing the permit.
    Gotta get that into their heads right off.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    And the law requires DOJ to start accepting applications 01SEP, too, but they appear to have no problem ignoring the spirit of that law, either.
    Where does it say that? Please provide a citation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    Where does it say that? Please provide a citation.
    an application is a prerequisite to a license and there is no date stated by which applications must be made available. We know that one of the following must be true-

    (a) DoJ may choose to never make applications (and therefore licenses) available or
    (b) DoJ must make applications available by a date determined by some method

    Which do you think is correct? If you choose (b), how would you determine the date?

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    And the law requires DOJ to start accepting applications 01SEP, too, but they appear to have no problem ignoring the spirit of that law, either.
    Where does it say that? Please provide a citation
    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    an application is a prerequisite to a license and there is no date stated by which applications must be made available. We know that one of the following must be true-

    (a) DoJ may choose to never make applications (and therefore licenses) available or
    (b) DoJ must make applications available by a date determined by some method

    Which do you think is correct? If you choose (b), how would you determine the date?

    If you want to answer that question for her, provide the citation!

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    an application is a prerequisite to a license and there is no date stated by which applications must be made available. We know that one of the following must be true-

    (a) DoJ may choose to never make applications (and therefore licenses) available or
    (b) DoJ must make applications available by a date determined by some method

    Which do you think is correct? If you choose (b), how would you determine the date?
    Try this:
    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL AMENDMENT MEMO

    2011 Senate Bill 93

    Senate Substitute
    Amendment 2, as Amended
    Memo published: June 15, 2011 Contact: Anne Sappenfield, Senior Staff Attorney (267-9485)

    - Page 7 -
    Within 21 days of receiving the application, DOJ must either issue a license or deny the license
    application. In addition, beginning on the day after publication of the legislation and ending on the first
    day of the fifth month after that day, DOJ must, as soon as practicable and without delay, but no longer
    than 45 days after receiving a complete application, either issue the license and promptly send the
    licensee the license document by 1st class mail or deny the application, as described above.
    Dave
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