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Thread: Wisconsin Hospital Association Helps Hospitals Post "Firearms And Weapons Prohibited"

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    Opt-Out Members scm54449's Avatar
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    Wisconsin Hospital Association Helps Hospitals Post "Firearms And Weapons Prohibited"

    In the July 15 edition of he Wisconsin Hospital Association's "Valued Voice" there is a brief article summarizing Act 35 with more detail available at:
    http://www.wha.org/SummaryKeyIssuesC...rryAct7-11.pdf

    Posters ready for printing are being offered here: http://www.wha.org/NoWeaponsPoster.ppt

    An on-line webinar is being offered on August 3 from 12:00 - 12:30. The link to the signup is here: http://events.signup4.com/ConcealCarry

    Here are the bios for the two presenters:

    Matthew Stanford
    Matthew Stanford is vice president of policy and regulatory affairs and associate counsel for the Wisconsin Hospital Association (WHA). He is responsible for policy developement related to regulatory and compliance issues. He holds Juris Doctor and Masters of Health Administration degrees from the University of Iowa.

    Paul Merline
    Paul Merline is vice president of government affairs for the Wisconsin Hospital Association (WHA). He is responsible for lobbying state issues in Madison, tracking/analyzing legislation, and policy research. His experience includes more than eight years lobbying at the state level, and more than 10 years of government relations experience, including working as legislative staff. He holds a bachelor’s degree in political science, economics and international relations from the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

    If you are interested, here is the contact information for the "Event Coordinator":

    For questions, please contact Lisa Littel
    Phone: 608-274-1820
    Email: llittel@wha.org



    Last edited by scm54449; 07-18-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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    Bastards!
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Too bad hospitals are probably one of the few places where the No Guns=No Money idea would not be practical. If you get in an accident, they take you to the hospital and you gotta pay. Bummer. Too bad the hospitals(with all their "smart" doctors) don't understand that criminals don't follow the rules.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 07-18-2011 at 07:35 PM.
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    We all should have seen this one from a mile away. In fact, watching the hearings on sb93 and the assembly bill (cannot remember the #) Paul M. Was asking for a blanket ban on hospitals. This is not a surprise to me at all. Also, no guns no money cards, yep that won't work so well.
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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    My thoughts: I wonder if the liability lawyers for the hospitals have thought this through. Each hospital that posts in accordance with the law is subjecting itself to the same liability before SB-93 became law, but each hospital who does so is depriving themselves of the blanket liability protection afforded by the language of the Bill. So, post = same as before. No Post = blanket protection from liability. It is only a matter of time before a gang-banger pulls a handgun and injures somebody at a hospital and the injured party sues before the liability lawyers see the folly in the positions taken by their clients, the hospitals.
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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Too bad hospitals are probably one of the few places where the No Guns=No Money idea would not be practical. If you get in an accident, they take you to the hospital and you gotta pay. Bummer. Too bad the hospitals(with all their "smart" doctors) don't understand that criminals don't follow the rules.
    Most Hospitals are ran by libs & are thusDUMB. This should not be a surprise to anyone.
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    Opt-Out Members scm54449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    <SNIP> Also, no guns no money cards, yep that won't work so well.
    In most of Wisconsin, choices in hospitals are nothing like restaurants, taverns, etc. If you wish to boycott your local hospital the next closest hospital can easily be >35 miles away. Start to factor in where your specialist of choice has privileges and knowing that critical access hospitals in rural areas have limited equipment, staff and services, the ability to boycott completely disappears for anyone with a significant medical condition. Hell, in several counties in Wisconsin, there isn't a single hospital to be found.....
    Last edited by scm54449; 07-18-2011 at 10:45 PM.
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    "They" did the same thing in IA beginning of the year when they went Shall Issue.

    Iowa Hospitals

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    I'll have the ambulance rush me to Illinois.
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    You might have a tiny flaw in your plan...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimmer View Post
    I'll have the ambulance rush me to Illinois.
    oscar
    Good luck having any rights in IL...
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    OK. I'll have them drive to Iowa.
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    Yeah I have overheard Aurora discussing the legislature and what the legal options are for their facilities. Just not sure if they are looking to ban the public as they already have rules banning employees. Only heard a few minutes of conversation so I have no idea how it was going.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Those signs aren't correct... they all say "firearms and weapons are prohibited on these premises".
    (Some add "except in your locked vehicle".)

    1) they can't prohibit anything except firearms.
    2) they can't prohibit firearms from the "premises", only the building.
    3) they can't prohibit firearms from being in vehicles.

    And as Jim already pointed out, they're pretty stupid to refuse their chance at being protected from liability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Those signs aren't correct... they all say "firearms and weapons are prohibited on these premises".
    (Some add "except in your locked vehicle".)

    1) they can't prohibit anything except firearms.
    2) they can't prohibit firearms from the "premises", only the building.
    3) they can't prohibit firearms from being in vehicles.

    And as Jim already pointed out, they're pretty stupid to refuse their chance at being protected from liability.
    Hey MKEgal... I don't think that's entirely right.

    RE 1) Truth is, they can ban weapons other than firearms, no sign needed. Sections 80-82 apply when a property owner bans firearms. Nowhere does it say that a property owner can't ban other weapons. So they can ban weapons other than firearms, and they don't have to post a sign to do it. If a person bearing a weapon other than a firearm is asked to leave and refuses, they're guilty of trespassing under s. 943.13 (1m)(b), as you can see in section 79.

    RE 2) Most can ban firearms on their premises, the law clearly says. Almost all property owners can ban firearms from both buildings and grounds under sections 79-82. The exceptions are colleges, government-owned and occupied properties, properties leased by others, and the common areas of multifamily housing. That's what this language, for example, means in section 80:

    "While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any
    part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresi-
    dential building, or land that the actor does not own or
    occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land,
    if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been
    leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of
    the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not
    to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or
    land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm."


    RE 3) I agree; vehicles in parking areas are excluded (except for on single-family property)

    Regarding liability exemptions, have lawyers anywhere gotten excited? Either they're all stupid, or the exemption's all BS. I'm not a lawyer so I can't say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maassen View Post
    Side note: Last week I was hospitalized for carbon monoxide poisoning. If I would have been unconscious, and the ambulance transported me to the ER while I had my weapon concealed, would I get in trouble? Since I didn't willingly/knowingly bring my firearm into the GFZ, can I still be fined?

    If they can ban smoking from the premises, why can't they ban anything else? In most cases, the hospitals are viewed as private property, so in theory why can't they ban anything they desire? I was once issued a ticket for smoking on the sidewalk. Since the property was posted as "Smoke Free Premises", the cop decided that I was on the property since I wasn't across the street. I fought the ticket, and won since the city maintained the sidewalk not the hospital. Had I been in the grass between the sidewalk and the building, I would have been screwed.

    Not trying to pick a fight, I'm just curious.
    Wow, glad you're still among us! What was the source of the CM?

    The "good news" (ahem) is that you wouldn't be guilty of trespass unless you refused to leave after being notified. If you're unconscious, you're not notified. They'd put away your gun and save your life.....unless you looked just too dangerous, even out cold.

    And yeah, private property owners have a nearly absolute right to control access and activity on their land. The only exceptions are in a few areas where specific laws force property owners to grant access, such as for law enforcement, health inspectors, or, in the case of places open to the public, diverse populations and mandatory smoking bans. Act 35 adds a new override of property rights so that landowners have to allow firearms unless they've provided a required notice, and always have to allow firearms in vehicles (except for on a single-family property).

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    No

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maassen View Post
    Side note: Last week I was hospitalized for carbon monoxide poisoning. If I would have been unconscious, and the ambulance transported me to the ER while I had my weapon concealed, would I get in trouble? Since I didn't willingly/knowingly bring my firearm into the GFZ, can I still be fined?
    or at the very least extremely improbable. You had no criminal intent or even input on where you were taken. Even if you were conscious and lucid (let's say you suffered a fracture), you would have the defense of necessity (particularly if on foot but even if you have a vehicle and could have left your firearm there - if to do so might not be a reasonable alternative, a compound fracture for instance). It would help if you informed a experienced staff member (M.D. or R.N., admissions supervisor, not the cute girl who takes your BP) and if asked, surrender it to a LEO for the duration.

    Medical people are interested in helping you. They are not interested in hanging a misdemeanor on patients, unless a patient's behavior interferes with the facility's operation or is harmful to himself or others.
    Last edited by apjonas; 07-23-2011 at 02:27 PM.

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    God forbid that I send a gangbanger to the hospital, will they refuse to pronounce them DOA? That isn't the job of the ambulance driver....
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    Clarify

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBomba View Post
    Wow, glad you're still among us! What was the source of the CM?

    The "good news" (ahem) is that you wouldn't be guilty of trespass unless you refused to leave after being notified. If you're unconscious, you're not notified. They'd put away your gun and save your life.....unless you looked just too dangerous, even out cold.

    And yeah, private property owners have a nearly absolute right to control access and activity on their land. The only exceptions are in a few areas where specific laws force property owners to grant access, such as for law enforcement, health inspectors, or, in the case of places open to the public, diverse populations and mandatory smoking bans. Act 35 adds a new override of property rights so that landowners have to allow firearms unless they've provided a required notice, and always have to allow firearms in vehicles (except for on a single-family property).
    You do not to be notified in the sense that somebody comes up to you and tells you that guns aren't allowed. The notification is accomplished by the sign. It doesn't matter if a particular person sees the sign or not only whether or not it is reasonably conspicuous. In the case of the unconscious, it doesn't matter because as I said there is no intent to trespass and the individual has no ability to chose where he goes. Those could be defenses raised or more likely there would be no prosecution at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maassen View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    "They" did the same thing in IA beginning of the year when they went Shall Issue.

    Iowa Hospitals
    Except there is one very important difference: signs mean nothing in Iowa. Only a personal command to vacate the premises, from an authorized agent, means anything in Iowa, and even then it is merely simple trespass IF police are called AND one refuses to leave. The fact that one has a firearm when charged for trespass, even if it was the reason one was asked to leave, doesn't affect any fines or charges whatsoever.

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