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Thread: Integration/Assimilation of Mexican/Hispanic populations into American Society

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Integration/Assimilation of Mexican/Hispanic populations into American Society

    There are some people seem to oppose the ever increasing numbers of Mexican and other Hispanic immigrants (legal and otherwise).

    While there are no easy answers on the subject, it seems one of the best options available would be to strongly encourage those who have come here peaceably to become part of our American Identity.

    Major concerns I have are the large amount of Hispanic men who drop out of high school and the ways in which undocumented/illegal immigrants who are here as workers are mistreated by employers.

    Another important thing would be to get legal immigrants who have become citizens on board with the Second Ammendment as part of their understanding of their new American Identity.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I agree with you if they go through the process and become citizens or legal residents. If they are illegal, they need to be sent back. The negative sentiment stems from us citizens who are paying for and providing services to those who are not legally here. As for those legally allowed to, let's get them all OCing.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I agree that much of the displeasure stems from the fact that a significant number are here illegaly, and from the fact that a significant number of those - and their supporters - are "demanfing" amnesty and instant citizenship. There are strawman and red-herring arguments about the amount of tax resources delivered to the illegal population that merely sidestep the fact that they are here illegally.

    What the OP seems to be addressing is the perception that the hispanic/latino population is perceived as not integrating/assimilating into the "American Culture" to the same extent that other immigrant groups seem(ed) to assimilate. Part of that is probably related to the failure/refusal to adopt English as te primary language outside the home, and the perceived failure to encourage/insist that the second and following generations adopt English as the primary language. This complaint has been the basis for animosity against immigrant groups ever since the English-speakers shoved the Native Americans off to the side and made sure that speakers of other languages (Dutch, German, French, Spanish primarily but also including Russian, Danish/Norwegian/Swedish and others) were not able to maintain their claims to territory and soverignty. Once the United States were established and became a purposeful destination for the under- and middle-classes of Europe and Asia, the language issue again surfaced with a vengance.

    The current conflict seems to be exaceberated by the La Raza/Reconquista movements where claims to possession and occupation of the land and its resources is added to physical presence withoyut compliance with existing legal requirements.

    Based on personal observations of the hispanic/latino population in general (yes, there are criminal elements amongst them, just as there were/are from all the other immigrant groups going all the way back to the Pilgrims/First Families of Virginia) I would welcome them to legal settlement. I am impressed with their work ethic and their strong sense of family and community. Were those brought legally into the country it would be a great improvement to the society. Were they to assimilate over the course of two or three generations much of the current animosity would probably be eliminated.

    Why this group seems to refuse to assimilate is perplexing.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    I agree with you if they go through the process and become citizens or legal residents. If they are illegal, they need to be sent back. The negative sentiment stems from us citizens who are paying for and providing services to those who are not legally here. As for those legally allowed to, let's get them all OCing.

    If you will find a few LEGAL hispanic immigrants and talk to them about the illegals, you will find a really PO'd attitude toward the ILLEGALS. Their attitude makes mine look lackadaisical.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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    I just don't like the lumping together of opposition to illegal immigration with opposition to hispanics in general.

    Some folks don't want any immigration at all.
    Some folks don't want any immigration from some groups based upon their heritage.
    Some folks don't care a whit about origin. They only care about the reasonable expectation of the members of a collective for the government of it to protect its boundaries from unwelcome intrusion by non-members.

    I, and most others bemoaning illegal intruders, fall into the latter category. Any implication that such a belief is in any way connected with a desire to keep hispanics out is disingenuous and designed to unjustly marginalize a reasonable belief.

    So when discussing what folks believe about immigration, please discuss separately legal immigration and illegal intrusion.

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    There other groups illegally immigrating to the US besides Hispanics; so there is no requirement to oppose both illegal immigration and hispanic immigration.

    I have several dilemmas in my own mind about illegal immigration.

    Despite any possible reasons to oppose increased legal immigration (not to disregard them), it would seem that our current system fails miserably at immigration control and would appear designed to bring in undocumented labour in order to avert minimum wage laws, social security payments (by the employers), and other labor laws.

    With real unemployment increases, you'll likely some xenophobic reactions. It's easy to pick on underclasses when your privilege feels threatened.

    It seems likely there are no simple or easy answers, which would be nice.

    Illegal immigration will likely decrease with economic downturn. Though if you'd allow for the freer flow of people through the border, you'd likely see many immigrants head home more quickly since they would feel secure in coming back for when the economy recovers.
    Last edited by ComradeV; 07-19-2011 at 10:57 PM.

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    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
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    We all pay taxes no matter where we come from.
    I know you guys know this but this country is based
    On inmigrants, ask your ancestors if they had a
    Passport when they came here from europe. And spanish
    Will always be our first lenguage because US mexicans
    have something inside us called ROOTS,CULTURE,SOULS
    And we are proud.

    And by the way, WE dont need acceptence of any kind
    from any other race or person neither are we here looking for a new identity, we know who we are and where we come from.
    Diversity.
    God bless America.

    mexico's constitution allows citizens to bear arms
    So its nothing really new to us you might not know this because HK(German Hk)
    supplies Mexicos army as a matter in fact mexico is now building their own rifles
    Fx-05

    Dont get me wrong I agree that ilegal inmigration is a problem
    I jusT dont see the integration issue, TO EACH ITS OWN.

    IMHO.
    Last edited by crackersillo; 07-20-2011 at 02:49 AM.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    If you will find a few LEGAL hispanic immigrants and talk to them about the illegals, you will find a really PO'd attitude toward the ILLEGALS. Their attitude makes mine look lackadaisical.
    The word "few was key, comfirming what I've learned; being the majority holds allegance to the illegals, and the lefts quest of votes for amnesty.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I just don't like the lumping together of opposition to illegal immigration with opposition to hispanics in general.

    Some folks don't want any immigration at all.
    Some folks don't want any immigration from some groups based upon their heritage.
    Some folks don't care a whit about origin. They only care about the reasonable expectation of the members of a collective for the government of it to protect its boundaries from unwelcome intrusion by non-members.

    I, and most others bemoaning illegal intruders, fall into the latter category. Any implication that such a belief is in any way connected with a desire to keep hispanics out is disingenuous and designed to unjustly marginalize a reasonable belief.

    So when discussing what folks believe about immigration, please discuss separately legal immigration and illegal intrusion.
    Concur. Two separate issues. Illegals should be deported; legal aliens who go to the effort and process while having a strong wish to become US citizens should be welcomed.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    So, anyone care to show me where in the Constitution the government (federal or state) has power to restrict, limit, or otherwise control immigration?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawnos View Post
    so, anyone care to show me where in the constitution the government (federal or state) has power to restrict, limit, or otherwise control immigration?

    win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    win.
    Lose.

    The ability to regulate commerce with foreign nations gives the federal government alone the authority to set immigration rules. Controlling the entry through the boundaries of a nation is a natural authority of government. In the case of the US, the only question is "Which government?" The Supreme Court answered this question, "The federal government." For many years, the federal government did not exercise much control in this regard. That does not mean that the authority did not pre-exist the Constitution, belonging to the States, and was not ceded to the federal government.

    http://supreme.justia.com/us/92/259/case.html

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackersillo View Post
    We all pay taxes no matter where we come from.
    I know you guys know this but this country is based
    On inmigrants, ask your ancestors if they had a
    Passport when they came here from europe. And spanish
    Will always be our first lenguage because US mexicans
    have something inside us called ROOTS,CULTURE,SOULS
    And we are proud.

    And by the way, WE dont need acceptence of any kind
    from any other race or person neither are we here looking for a new identity, we know who we are and where we come from.
    Diversity.
    God bless America.

    mexico's constitution allows citizens to bear arms
    So its nothing really new to us you might not know this because HK(German Hk)
    supplies Mexicos army as a matter in fact mexico is now building their own rifles
    Fx-05

    Dont get me wrong I agree that ilegal inmigration is a problem
    I jusT dont see the integration issue, TO EACH ITS OWN.

    IMHO.
    If you came to The United States to be a Mexican, I am left scratching my head as to why you did that.

    If you came to The United States to become an American, why do you insist on being hypenized?

    Please show me where Mexico's constitution allows citizens to bear arms other than on a very limited and restricted basis. IIRC there is a restriction to only non-military calibers and against many more features than what we so laughingly call "assault weapon" features.

    In case you missed it, the issue is not integration but assimilation. You know, like joining mainstream America instead of creating your own ghettos. And it applies to all the different ethnic groups, not just hispanics/latinos.

    Just to throw a monkey wrench into the discussion - if I were an illegal immigrant I think I would want to blend in as much as possible, rather than stand out like a sore thumb. Part of that would probably involve stopping behaving like a Mexican (or any other nationality) and start acting like an American. But that could just be me.

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member ISRAEL's Avatar
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    ¡ hola !

    [QUOTE=crackersillo;1577561]We all pay taxes no matter where we come from.
    I know you guys know this but this country is based
    On inmigrants, ask your ancestors if they had a
    Passport when they came here from europe. And spanish
    Will always be our first lenguage because US mexicans
    have something inside us called ROOTS,CULTURE,SOULS
    And we are proud.

    And by the way, WE dont need acceptence of any kind
    from any other race or person neither are we here looking for a new identity, we know who we are and where we come from.
    Diversity.
    God bless America.

    mexico's constitution allows citizens to bear arms
    So its nothing really new to us you might not know this because HK(German Hk)
    supplies Mexicos army as a matter in fact mexico is now building their own rifles
    Fx-05

    When I became a U.S. citizen, the judge in Tacoma Wash. told us, do not forget your roots, and that is what I did, I speak spanish all the time and listen and watch tv in spanish,we mostly eat Salvadorean food and rigth now I am teaching spanish to a friend from Russia, at home and my children all are billinguals, the latin blood is flowing in my veins,I can not help it. but when I am with the english speaking friends,then I try to "blend" in, Millions of "ilegales" work hard and pay taxes and they know that they will not receive any thing back, I am talking to many hispanics to join our O.C. movement, and sometimes I feel I can start an O.C. group in spanish, we are growing in numbers here in Boise, and please remember that USA is the 2nd largest spanish speaking country in the world, México is first.

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    I am opposed to any ILLEGAL immigration. I don't care about your nationality, heritage, point of origin, creed, color, or if your blood is red, blue, or green. If you are here illegally and you want to be legal.... GO THROUGH THE LEGAL PROCESS however it may be set up to be here legally. If you are here ILLEGALLY--- GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM and quit being the criminal you are (children of illegals who were brought here by their parents are excluded).

    Now, should we make the process of LEGAL immigration easier? YES.

    I've seen a small portion of the process ICE makes those attempting to gain US Citizenship go through and it is a crime in and of itself.

    And to all of us who ARE citizens LEARN YOUR HISTORY, UNDERSTAND THE US CONSTITUTION, take part in your Country and participate.

    Stepping off my soap box NOW

    END RANT!

  16. #16
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    If you came to The United States to be a Mexican, I am left scratching my head as to why you did that.
    To be a pauper, very much like those New York wished to protect against.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Savage206's Avatar
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    i say open the gates and let everyone in. As long as they pay their taxes I don't have an issue with it. We were all immigrants at one time or another.

  18. #18
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ISRAEL;1577894]
    Quote Originally Posted by crackersillo View Post
    We all pay taxes no matter where we come from.
    I know you guys know this but this country is based
    On inmigrants, ask your ancestors if they had a
    Passport when they came here from europe. And spanish
    Will always be our first lenguage because US mexicans
    have something inside us called ROOTS,CULTURE,SOULS
    And we are proud.

    And by the way, WE dont need acceptence of any kind
    from any other race or person neither are we here looking for a new identity, we know who we are and where we come from.
    Diversity.
    God bless America.

    mexico's constitution allows citizens to bear arms
    So its nothing really new to us you might not know this because HK(German Hk)
    supplies Mexicos army as a matter in fact mexico is now building their own rifles
    Fx-05

    When I became a U.S. citizen, the judge in Tacoma Wash. told us, do not forget your roots, and that is what I did, I speak spanish all the time and listen and watch tv in spanish,we mostly eat Salvadorean food and rigth now I am teaching spanish to a friend from Russia, at home and my children all are billinguals, the latin blood is flowing in my veins,I can not help it. but when I am with the english speaking friends,then I try to "blend" in, Millions of "ilegales" work hard and pay taxes and they know that they will not receive any thing back, I am talking to many hispanics to join our O.C. movement, and sometimes I feel I can start an O.C. group in spanish, we are growing in numbers here in Boise, and please remember that USA is the 2nd largest spanish speaking country in the world, México is first.
    OMG! At first I thought it was just an episode of reflux, and then I realized it was these two posts bringing up my lunch. This is exactly the detrimental anti-assimilation we face in our country today. The post is the “proofs in the pudding” that today to be an American is undesirable by immigrants; the title helps them, but gives them no pleasure, or further identity to complement their past, allegiance is too where they came from, period.
    “US mexicans”?
    Last edited by jbone; 07-20-2011 at 05:29 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage206 View Post
    . We were all immigrants at one time or another.
    That's not a correct statement.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    That's not a correct statement.
    While I think I understand what you're saying, you might want to elaborate just a bit.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  21. #21
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    While I think I understand what you're saying, you might want to elaborate just a bit.
    While my ancestors may have immigrated from Europe to here hundreds of years ago, I am born American through many generations of born Americans. At some point many generations back my ancestors drop the hyphenation crap (that I believe started in the early 1900’s?) and assimilated completely. I am one of those completed generations, born American, and have never been an immigrant.
    Last edited by jbone; 07-20-2011 at 05:49 PM.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    While my ancestors may have emigrated from Europe to here hundreds of years ago, I am born American through many generations of born Americans. At some point many generations back my ancestors drop the hyphenation crap (that I believe started in the early 1900’s) and assimilated completely. I am one of those completed generations, born American, and have never been an immigrant.
    That's what I was thinking, and I agree. Thanks.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage206 View Post
    ...We were all immigrants at one time or another.
    I was never an immigrant.

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    I'd like to see if opening up the border while also documenting those who cross would make it easier for Border agents to capture criminals attempting to cross the border for nefarious purposes.

    I wouldn't know but I doubt it would be harmful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComradeV View Post
    I'd like to see if opening up the border while also documenting those who cross would make it easier for Border agents to capture criminals attempting to cross the border for nefarious purposes.

    I wouldn't know but I doubt it would be harmful.
    All we have to do is CHANGE the current law to allow this and you'd have my support! Isn't that what was being done at ELLIS ISLAND?
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 07-20-2011 at 11:52 PM.

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