CBS 42 - Alabama Open Carry seeks statute confirming open carry is legal

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localn...aim-at-gun-rights/Sta4mjO2AE2LylyliqTvpg.cspx

SNIP

The Tuscaloosa chapter of "Alabama Open Carry" . . . says some law enforcement agencies don't know it's legal for people to openly carry a firearm.

They say the issue gets foggy because a permit is needed to carry a concealed gun. To clear things up, the . . . group currently has a bill in the works that would also allow people to carry a concealed handgun without a permit.

Why would they want to do that?

Any time a bill is proposed, there is an opportunity to get something you don't want.

I was always of the understanding here in the USA, that unless there is a law prohibiting an action or activity, THERE IS NO LAW.

I would not open that can of worms. I really think they should use the AG or maybe the courts to resolve this.

They are better off dealing with those LE agencies, With legal notification, that thier failure to train and supervise could have consequences.

The problem is that there ARE laws contributing to the misimpression that OC is illegal. The point of the legislation is to REMOVE that wording. Also, the bill would change AL from "may issue" to "shall issue," REMOVE the law prohibiting carry in or near a demonstration, and REMOVE language that requires a license to carry in a car.

Maybe you should read the bill before commenting on it.

Hey, EYE! I addressed the posting that was made.
All I did was post thoughts and ask questions.

Everytime some one sayes something YOU DON'T LIKE, the Sarcasm Starts, It is EYE's way or whatever.

Rattrapper said:

Why would they want to do that?...

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Read the bill and find out. Maybe reading the current law that presents the problem would help too.

Or you could continue to post in ignorance.

No sarcasm at all (not in this post or in my last; was "snark" the word you were looking for?). I am, in very plain and direct language, criticizing your having jumped to conclusions without having bothered to gather the facts.

Does that clear up my meaning and intent for you?

Having bluntly made my point, I shall move on to discussing this quite sensible and rights-respecting bill with those who will thoughtfully post on what the bill actually says and accomplishes.

On ninja edit: Sarcasm is "A form of irony in which apparent praise conceals another, scornful meaning. For example, a sarcastic remark directed at a person who consistently arrives fifteen minutes late for appointments might be, 'Oh, you've arrived exactly on time!'” There is no apparent praise in my remarks, just flat-out, open, and honest criticism. I understand that you don't like it. I just don't care.

eye95:

Unfortunately..., there are One too Many People who do NOT Understand The Phrase: '...[E]xcept as otherwise Provided under This Article...', which is Located to The Beginning on Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-52.

aadvark

Just as I said, MORE SARCASM!!!!

Put them down, as quick as you can, then you can be the only one right.

I am not the only one that has noticed this.

aadvark said:

eye95:

Unfortunately..., there are One too Many People who do NOT Understand The Phrase: '...[E]xcept as otherwise Provided under This Article...', which is Located to The Beginning on Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-52.

aadvark

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Yep, you are dead on, which is why the primary purpose of the bill is to remove -52 altogether, leaving nothing to misunderstand. -73 is all they need (with the restriction on carry in a vehicle removed).

eye95 said:

Maybe you should read the bill before commenting on it.

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Maybe you could post a link to the bill so others not familiar with the Alabama legislative process could read it easily?

TFred

TFred said:

Maybe you could post a link to the bill so others not familiar with the Alabama legislative process could read it easily?

TFred

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I would be happy to do so. Thank you for asking!

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/searchableinstruments/2011RS/PrintFiles/HB582-int.pdf

eye95 said:

I would be happy to do so. Thank you for asking!

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/searchableinstruments/2011RS/PrintFiles/HB582-int.pdf

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Thanks!

ETA: Wow, confidentiality of permit-holder information, a whopping $1 fee, and two week processing... Send some of that up my way, wouldja!

TFred

TFred said:

Thanks!

ETA: Wow, confidentiality of permit-holder information, a whopping $1 fee, and two week processing... Send some of that up my way, wouldja!

TFred

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Don't let the $1 fee fool you. Alabama has a unique animal called the "local law." It is not a law passed by a city or county. It is a law passed by the State legislature that affects only one locality. There are scads of these laws that change that $1 fee for almost all localities. In Montgomery, the actual fee is $20. Still not bad, but 1900% more than the $1 fee in the basic law.

Some counties can give you your license on the spot. Montgomery does take about two weeks for the first one.

However, all this is moot if HB582 passes. If it does, unlicensed carry will be a reality, and one will only need a license for its original intended purpose: to allow concealment.

@Rattrapper

You may not care for eye's delivery, and you may even have had issue with him in the past, but on this subject he is 100% correct and your defensive attitude was not warranted in this thread.

He posted everything I was going to, and a few things I would have forgot.

And after reading the article, I wouldn't go so far as to say they misrepresented us, but Eddie and Deac were a lot more confident in front of that camera than the article makes it sound.

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/searchableinstruments/2011RS/PrintFiles/HB582-int.pdf

under the disorderly section it says that "the mere presence of a properly holstered concealed firearm is not justification for a Disorderly conduct charge" or words substantially to that effect. Does this not mean that a properly holstered NON concealed firearm IS?

JoeSparky said:

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/searchableinstruments/2011RS/PrintFiles/HB582-int.pdf

under the disorderly section it says that "the mere presence of a properly holstered concealed firearm is not justification for a Disorderly conduct charge" or words substantially to that effect. Does this not mean that a properly holstered NON concealed firearm IS?

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The section does not mention "concealed."

"(c) The mere carrying of a visible, holstered firearm in a public place, in and of itself, shall not be a violation of this section."

The reason this exists is because some police officers are insisting (and one court has ruled) that OC causes "public alarm" and is, therefore, disorderly conduct. CC does not generally present this problem. Note the law protects carrying a "visible" firearm. This protects a CCer who flashes from being accused of DC. This section is designed to stop an officer from saying, "Folks can see that you have a firearm, and that is causing public alarm."

Lee County

Hi, I'm new. I was always under the impression that open carry was lawful for leo's and those who woked armed security details and had permission from the property owners. I am glad I found this site and bank of useful information. I picked up my pistol permit today from lee county sheriff's office and was given a list of rules and regs. #2 on this list states " in the state of alabama, you are required to carry the handgun concealed, either on your person or in your vehicle. Concealed means out of the sight of the public. If you do not have a permit for your handgun, you are to keep the handgun on your property until you have applied for and received a pistol permit" this, according to what I have read here about alabama oc law, is a bit misleading. One can only assume from the wording that you better not get caught with your pistol on your belt. I have to wonder if the local sheriff is unaware that oc is legal or if he just means to keep that knowledge away from john q. Public. Anyone have any experience with oc in lee county? I would love to oc when appropriate but I cannot afford to go to court over a uninformed officer's decision to arrest me. I like to think of my rights like muscles, if you don't exercise them they eventually atrophy into nothing.

Ask them what you will be charged with. On Wednesday, June 20th I was threatened with arrest for "Carrying a Concealed Weapon Without a Permit" for openly carrying a handgun. I wouldn't go so far as to say I can afford to be arrested (who can?), but that case would have been a slam dunk*.

As near as I can tell, that would be the only gun charge they could back that up with, though they might try Disorderly Conduct, or Loitering, or whatever "Contempt of Cop" catch-all they use there. The CCW charge would be easy* to beat because you have a permit, and the gun would not be concealed.

*On appeal. We have already seen that the Birmingham Municipal Court has only the faintest concept of justice, and with Jacksonville I now have low expectation of other Muni courts in the state.

It's actually worse if you're armed security. The reason why is because Alabama separates Pistol Licenses (PLs) from Pistol Permits (PPs). According to state law, if you are carrying a gun in your vehicle YOU NEED A LICENSE.

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/CodeOfAlabama/1975/13A-11-73.htm
Section 13A-11-73
[h=4]License to carry pistol in vehicle or concealed on person - Required.[/h] No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own abode or fixed place of business, without a license therefor as hereinafter provided.
[h=5](Acts 1936, Ex. Sess., No. 82, p. 51; Code 1940, T. 14, §175; Acts 1947, No. 616, p. 463, §3; Acts 1951, No. 784, p. 1378; Acts 1956, 2nd Ex. Sess., No. 43, p. 336; Code 1975, §13-6-153.)[/h]

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If you are private security (working for a security company who works for other companies), you need a PISTOL PERMIT:

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/CodeOfAlabama/1975/34-27C-11.htm
[h=5]Section 34-27C-11[/h][h=4]Pistol permit.[/h] An armed security officer shall apply for and have his or her pistol permit issued by the sheriff of the county of his or her residence. It is a violation of this chapter for any security officer to carry a firearm in the performance of his or her duties without holding a valid certification card for an armed security officer issued by the board.

[h=5](Act 2009-640, p. 1960, §11.) [/h]

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There are Exceptions:

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/CodeOfAlabama/1975/34-27C-17.htm
[h=5]Section 34-27C-17[/h][h=4]Exemptions.[/h] The following persons and entities, including affiliated entities under common control, are exempt from this chapter:
(1) Any person or entity which uses the employees of the person or entity for security services.
(2) Any employee who provides security services only for his or her employer and not for any third party.
(3) A sworn peace officer who only provides security services within the scope of his or her employment with a public entity and who does not contract for or otherwise provide in any manner private contract security services.
(4) Any person who is employed with a contract security company which employs, or has an employer-employee relationship with, collectively less than 100 security officers or armed security officers, or both.
(5) A contract security company which employs, or has an employer-employee relationship with, collectively less than 100 security officers or armed security officers, or both.
(6) Any person 65 years of age or older who works as a security officer, seeks employment as a security officer, or contracts to provide security services directly to an individual business or businesses, unless the person works for an entity covered by this chapter.
[h=5](Act 2009-640, p. 1960, §17.)

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[/h]A permit and a license are two different things.

And yes, the handout was incorrect; the courts have held that you can carry an unlicensed firearm, provided you're not in a vehicle. See K.J. vs State, Braxton v State, the AG Opinions, etc.