Why Talk to Citizens?

HandyHamlet · Jul 20, 2011

The mantra here is "Never talk to police".

So with all the threads here on encounters with spooked or mad antis, uninformed employees, assistant managers on power trips, civilians working crowd control at local events... I ask the question, why talk to them? I mean why talk to them at all? When these people ask if you are law enforcement why answer? When they ask why you have/feel the need to carry a gun, why acknowledge them at all? Why not just keep right on going about your business? If we aren't supposed to do this dance with the Police why do it with everyone else?

EDIT:

NOT TALKING ABOUT POSITIVE OR POLICE ENCOUNTERS

ldsgeek · Jul 20, 2011

Education

To educate those who are unaware of our rights. Also, they can't arrest you on some trumped up charge because they don't like you carrying, although they may call the police if they get nervous enough.

thebigsd · Jul 20, 2011

I take it as a chance to inform people who might not otherwise know that OC is legal. In all my time interacting with fellow citizens, I have had 1 negative encounter balanced with more than 30 positive encounters. I'll keep talking as long as they'll keep listening.

eye95 · Jul 20, 2011

ldsgeek said:
To educate those who are unaware of our rights. Also, they can't arrest you on some trumped up charge because they don't like you carrying, although they may call the police if they get nervous enough.

This.

And because, until you engage the officer who is trying to engage you, you can't really know if he has RAS. If he has gotten a call that someone matching your description just robbed the Wal-Mart you are walking out of, using a firearm like the one on your hip, then he has a pile of RAS. Simply walking away without acknowledging the officer's vain attempt to stop you could result in more physical (and very legal) tactics to stop you from leaving.

ComradeV · Jul 20, 2011

The primary difference is LEO's conducting investigations are seeking to use any word spoken to them as evidence of a crime. Sometimes words are twisted and taken out of context.

Private citizens or agents of companies are not conducting the same type of activity. They may be seeking some sort of victory for their own mind, but that doesn't usually involve handcuffs (usually) and expensive courtroom proceedings.

HandyHamlet · Jul 20, 2011

eye95 said:
this.

And because, until you engage the officer who is trying to engage you, you can't really know if he has ras.

this thread is not about interacting with the police

ComradeV said:
Private citizens or agents of companies are not conducting the same type of activity. They may be seeking some sort of victory for their own mind, but that doesn't usually involve handcuffs (usually) and expensive courtroom proceedings.

I agree totally so it begs the question in my mind... Then why talk to them?

thebigsd said:
I take it as a chance to inform people who might not otherwise know that OC is legal. In all my time interacting with fellow citizens, I have had 1 negative encounter balanced with more than 30 positive encounters. I'll keep talking as long as they'll keep listening.

Not talking about positive encounters, made a small correction in the OP. Did you educate in the negative encounter? Why did you feel compelled to engage in the negative encounter? Not an attack, I would like to hear your thought process on that one.

thebigsd · Jul 20, 2011

HandyHamlet said:
Not talking about positive encounters, made a small correction in the OP. Did you educate in the negative encounter? Why did you feel compelled to engage in the negative encounter? Not an attack, I would like to hear your thought process on that one.

I did educate in the negative encounter. A woman came up to me and said I should not carry at all, especially not openly. She gave the typical anti reasons why. I took a little time to explain the law and why I carry. We had a decent discussion where she seemed to understand my reasoning. I won't say I changed the person's mind but perhaps I at least planted a seed of thought in their head. When I first met my wife she was about as anti as they come, now she's got her own gun and goes shooting. I guess that led me to believe it's worth it to talk to anyone who will listen.

skidmark · Jul 20, 2011

Why talk to citizens?

First of all, you are perpetuating the "us" vs "them" dichotomy by using the word "citizen". Cops, store managers, folks wearing uniforms hired to stand around someone's private propertry to tell people where they can or cannot stand/sit/spit at a performance or other event are all citizens underneath the other label you are slapping on them.

Second, I try to be polite. I also try to educate folks who are encumbered with incorrect information. And I figure that if they find out that folks toting guns lawfully and peaceably are polite and well-informed about the actual law, as opposed to what they "think" it is, they might be less worried about us as a group, or at least about me as an individual.

No, I'm not suggesting everybody go buttonhole strangers on the street and "set them straight". But even if we part ways agreeing to disagree (and me agreeing that they are dumber than a box of rocks and irrationally prejudiced to boot) at least that happens in a polite manner and I get to say "I tried".

All you do by walking away and ignoring them is give them ammunition to fuel their prejudices and mistaken impressions about people who carry firearms.

stay safe.

HandyHamlet · Jul 20, 2011

skidmark said:
... are all citizens underneath the other label you are slapping on them.

uhm, say what?

First of all it's "Citizens".

As in the Citizens vs. the Police.

As in "why talk to citizens vs. why talk to cops".

...:banghead:

But even if we part ways agreeing to disagree (and me agreeing that they are dumber than a box of rocks and irrationally prejudiced to boot) at least that happens in a polite manner and I get to say "I tried"

Wouldn't this be considered a "positive encounter" and in no way what the OP is about? But hey, thanks for actually reading what I posted. No, ,really. {sarcasm off}

RetiredOC · Jul 20, 2011

this thread is not about interacting with the police

I think he was trying to give you the difference between why he talks to citizens and not police.... that's kind of what you made this thread feel like.

Why Talk to Citizens?

The mantra here is "Never talk to police".

Aknazer · Jul 20, 2011

When average citizens have the ability to arrest me and charge me with a crime then I won't talk to them about carrying while carrying. But the difference between a cop and an average citizen is the power the cop has over you to (rightly or wrongly) make your life hell.

HandyHamlet · Jul 20, 2011

Schlitz said:
I think he was trying to give you the difference between why he talks to citizens and not police.... that's kind of what you made this thread feel like.

I specifically said in my opening post....

...encounters with spooked or mad antis, uninformed employees, assistant managers on power trips, civilians working crowd control at local events.

As in....

...an encounter with someone (other than a cop) pissed off, uninformed, and on a power trip. And they are demanding to know why you are OCing and IF you are LEO. Like if an assistant manager at your favorite OC friendly box store confronts you. Like a guy in a cheap "security" tee and a walkie-talkie at the state fair where you know OC is legal confronts you. Like a crazy old anti-2a lady confronting you at a parade as you OC.

I also posted in giant letters this is not about the police.

Grapeshot · Jul 20, 2011

Sense a sort of challenging attitude, might just be my perception though. :uhoh:

For myself, I consider each encounter as defined here to be an opportunity to educate if in no other way than to show that I cannot be provoked unreasonably and will maintain the high ground.

HandyHamlet · Jul 20, 2011

Grapeshot said:
Sense a sort of challenging attitude, might just be my perception though. :uhoh:

I'm asking a very specific question about a very specific scenario. I was just trying to clarify. Apparently I lack the ability to communicate my question.

RetiredOC · Jul 20, 2011

HandyHamlet said:
Apparently I lack the ability to communicate my question.

^ This.

HandyHamlet · Jul 20, 2011

Schlitz said:
^ This.

No kidding.

OC for ME said:
My fellow citizens, regardless of their profession, can not learn anything new/different if the information is not presented to them. This is a truism in kindergarten as it is on a sidewalk.

You can't educate someone who thinks they are right. Won't listen. Is pissed, on a power trip, vindictive, and just plain hates guns and doesn't care what the law is. If we could there would be no threads about an OCer getting kicked out of a store, bank, or event where it is actually okay to OC. Kicked out by some assistant manager, employee, or rent-a-cop. Because the OCer would just set them straight with a brief conversation and move on with his/her day... Right? In reality this does not seem to happen. At least not judging by the posts here. And if that is the case then why talk to them in the first place? Answer their questions?

Citizen · Jul 20, 2011

Why Talk to Citizens?

Because we're great listeners?

Outdoorsman1 · Jul 20, 2011

Citizen said:
Because we're great listeners?

I see what you did there.....:lol:

Outdoorsman1

Outdoorsman1 · Jul 20, 2011

I think your OP is a little confusing as it gives 2 definitions of your intened topic of discusion.

1.)

Why Talk to Citizens?

2.)

spooked or mad antis, uninformed employees, assistant managers on power trips, civilians working crowd control at local events... I ask the question, why talk to them?

Although the people in the second discription do qualify as "Citizens" they are more than that by thier very discription. As such, "Citizens" are not "spooked or mad antis, uninformed employees, assistant managers on power trips, civilians working crowd control at local events".

To answer both your references,

I talk to Citizens #1 to inform and educate and only if spoken to first.
I (might) talk to citizens #2 with a either a slight sarcastic answer or just a smile as I walk away with the intended affect of letting them know their complaints, attitude, (whatever), mean nothing to me and will have no effect on me other than a little humor....

Outdoorsman1

ETA: Long time no see.. I hope you are doing well.

eye95 · Jul 20, 2011

HandyHamlet said:
...I also posted in giant letters this is not about the police.

Yeah, on ninja edit.

Moving on.

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