Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 42

Thread: Outside Wal-Mart LEO Encounter

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    77

    Outside Wal-Mart LEO Encounter

    Officer E. Howell of the Atlanta PD stopped me while I had a hand full of groceries because he saw my handgun printing under my shirt. Luckily I managed to turn my phones voice recorder on in time and recorded the entire encounter.

    From when he asked for a permit, tried to make me show him my license, threatened to "make this difficult" and bring his sergeant into it, as he approached me with his hand on the grip of his gun.

    After his sergeant eventually told him he didn't have a leg to stand on, he left me alone.



    Wish you could have seen the look on his face when I bluffed him about "calling my Attorney Doug King" his eyes got big on me.


    But eventually he left me alone and I went on my way.



    My rights.mp3 - 10.97MB
    Last edited by the_hustleman; 07-21-2011 at 12:32 AM. Reason: including the new audio

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    Make sure you file a complaint with the department. There was no reason for the officer to stop and bother you. As for the audio, you could upload it to youtube, I know some people have done that. I would love to hear the audio.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Sent it to yourself, then store it as an audio file.

    Send a copy to the Chief of Police and the APD Internal Affairs unit along with your formal written complaint.

    Send a copy to some trusted site outside your house, with instructions to repeat step #2 above immediately after your sudden disappearance, but this time add a copy to the local news outlets.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Nizzy EEzzy in da Pizzy
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by the_hustleman View Post
    Officer E. Howell of the Atlanta PD stopped me while I had a hand full of groceries because he saw my handgun printing under my shirt. Luckily I managed to turn my phones voice recorder on in time and recorded the entire encounter.

    From when he asked for a permit, tried to make me show him my license, threatened to "make this difficult" and bring his sergeant into it, as he approached me with his hand on the grip of his gun.

    After his sergeant eventually told him he didn't have a leg to stand on, he left me alone.



    Wish you could have seen the look on his face when I bluffed him about "calling my Attorney Doug King" his eyes got big on me.


    But eventually he left me alone and I went on my way.



    where can I store the audio file? it's around 10mb but I have audio of the whole encounter
    if your gun was under your shirt, then it was concealed. if it was concealed, don't you need to have a license/permit for that, and aren't you required to provide it under lawful demand?

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    if your gun was under your shirt, then it was concealed. if it was concealed, don't you need to have a license/permit for that, and aren't you required to provide it under lawful demand?
    yes, my FIREARMS license, not my drivers license which he tried to demand.

    I had NO PROBLEM showing him my firearms license, which I did

  6. #6
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Nizzy EEzzy in da Pizzy
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by the_hustleman View Post
    yes, my FIREARMS license, not my drivers license which he tried to demand.

    I had NO PROBLEM showing him my firearms license, which I did
    ah, you didn't specify. i'm from PA; when you say license, i think firearms license. why the hell would that idiot want your driver ID? were you walking by yourself in a carpool lane?

  7. #7
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by the_hustleman View Post
    yes, my FIREARMS license, not my drivers license which he tried to demand.

    I had NO PROBLEM showing him my firearms license, which I did
    Glad you cleared that up. I thought it was your CCW, too. After you showed it to him he should have thanked you and left.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    77
    I found a site to upload to, it'll be up tomorrow

    *swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    Quote Originally Posted by the_hustleman View Post
    I found a site to upload to, it'll be up tomorrow

    *swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*
    Sounds good. Let us know if you intend to pursue it any further with the department and how it goes if you do.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    77
    edited original post with the audio

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Just one little question. Is GA a one-party consent state for recording conversations?

    If not, including the recording in a formal complaint, uploading it, etc, is called "evidence".

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    I just listened to everything. I think you handled yourself very well. You stood up for your rights. You remained respectful the entire 13 minutes that they were wasting your time. Kudos to you!!!!
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Just one little question. Is GA a one-party consent state for recording conversations?

    If not, including the recording in a formal complaint, uploading it, etc, is called "evidence".

    yep, evidence.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Just one little question. Is GA a one-party consent state for recording conversations?

    If not, including the recording in a formal complaint, uploading it, etc, is called "evidence".
    Looks like the law in Georgia might only cover conversations that happen in a private place according to the info at the link below.

    Not sure if the reported information is current, though.

    http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/georgia.html

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Looks like the law in Georgia might only cover conversations that happen in a private place according to the info at the link below.

    Not sure if the reported information is current, though.

    http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/georgia.html

    However, the law expressly provides that it does not prohibit a person who is a party to a conversation from recording, and allows recording if one party to the conversation has given prior consent.
    ^^^that part makes no mention of public or private, but it's a PUBLIC PLACE (outside of wal-mart) and an officer.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    77
    Filed a complaint with the OPS

    I was coming out of the Wal-mart on howell mill road and officer E. Howell approached me and detained me for carrying my personal LEGAL firearm. I didn't have a drivers license on me at the time (I was on foot), so I refused to show my drivers license with the firearms license and he tried to tell me it was a legal requirement for me to show it. I respectfully declined, he had his hand on his pistol ready to draw on me for most of the encounter. I had 2 handfuls of groceries, and I was leaving the location. He had no RAS or probable cause that I committed, was committing, or about to commit a crime, there was no reason for the detainment.

    I don't appreciate the HUMILIATION of having an officer detain me for a COMPLETELY LEGAL ACTIVITY. Then he even threatened to "make this hard on me" by bringing his sergeant out. I informed him that I'd done nothing wrong, wasn't breaking any laws, didn't appreciate being treated like a criminal, my description called in, I was unfairly treated.

    I'd greatly appreciate speaking to the Chief about this incident because it should have never happened.

    Also I've spoken to other APD officers and they seem to think that open carrying a handgun without a permit IS NOT illegal. This definitely needs to be corrected because if officers are telling people that, and the next officer knows the law a little better, that person that got that advice from the officer would be arrested and lose their rights for listening to an officer.

    A license to carry mentioned in code 16-11-129 is required for openly or concealed carry of firearms, please pass this information on to the department because so many are misinformed.

  17. #17
    Guest
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    ,
    Posts
    395
    2A
    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 09:17 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    Great job standing up for yourself. How were you trying to find the statute, on your cell phone or something?
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Great job standing up for yourself. How were you trying to find the statute, on your cell phone or something?
    Yes, I got a pdf from handgunlaw but I couldn't find the part that applied.

    Saw it a million times but not when I needed it.

    *swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*

  20. #20
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by the_hustleman View Post
    Officer E. Howell of the Atlanta PD stopped me while I had a hand full of groceries because he saw my handgun printing under my shirt. Luckily I managed to turn my phones voice recorder on in time and recorded the entire encounter.

    From when he asked for a permit, tried to make me show him my license, threatened to "make this difficult" and bring his sergeant into it, as he approached me with his hand on the grip of his gun.

    After his sergeant eventually told him he didn't have a leg to stand on, he left me alone.

    [snip...]
    The world has turned upside down ... when a LEO expects a Citizen to produce a copy of the statute that stipulates that the Citizen has no requirement to produce ID. As if such a statute would even exist that stipulates what a Citizen is NOT required to do. At the most, the statute would contain only a stipulation that the CCing Citizen must show a CC permit when requested. If the statute also required that the Citizen to show ID (as it does in Virginia), then I'm certain that the Citizen in this case would have complied.

    And where were the magic words, "Am I free to go?" Other than that, the OP did a great job in defending his rights and I hope that he continues to pursue action against this ill-informed and poorly trained LEO.
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 07-21-2011 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Typo correction

  21. #21
    Guest
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    ,
    Posts
    395
    2A
    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 09:15 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605
    EVERYONE:

    This is a Perfect Example of Why it is too Bad that Senate Bill 102 did NOT Pass during This Past Legislative Session!

    Senate Bill 102 would have Removed The Requirement to Present a Georgia Weapons Carry License upon Demand to a Peace Officer, Effectively Turning Georgia into a 'Honor System', of Sorts, whenever a Peace Officer would otherwise like to make a Determination as to whether or not a Person is a License Holder.

    The Language of that Senate Bill that would have done that is Located here under Line 553 through Line 556: http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/...islation=32793

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 07-21-2011 at 04:15 PM.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maple Hill, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    430
    It's amazing how high compliance rates are with most honour systems.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    1,276
    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    if your gun was under your shirt, then it was concealed. if it was concealed, don't you need to have a license/permit for that, and aren't you required to provide it under lawful demand?
    In Georgia carrying a firearm is NOT a crime. Not possessing a license to carry the firearm is an element of the crime of carrying without a license. What that means is that the state must prove you do not have a license. The officer cannot detain you or demand to see a permit because he has no RAS to believe you have, are or are going to commit a crime.

    In Georgia before SB308 a firearm license was a DEFENSE to the crime of carrying a concealed weapon but only when concealed. That is no more. CC is now the same as OC (completely legal activity unless you don't have a license.) In TN, the carrying of a firearm CC or OC is a crime and having a permit is a defense to that crime. Very different laws from state to state.

    The OP did not need to show the firearms license but I support his decision to do so to avoid the ride.

  25. #25
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Nizzy EEzzy in da Pizzy
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    In Georgia carrying a firearm is NOT a crime. Not possessing a license to carry the firearm is an element of the crime of carrying without a license. What that means is that the state must prove you do not have a license. The officer cannot detain you or demand to see a permit because he has no RAS to believe you have, are or are going to commit a crime.

    In Georgia before SB308 a firearm license was a DEFENSE to the crime of carrying a concealed weapon but only when concealed. That is no more. CC is now the same as OC (completely legal activity unless you don't have a license.) In TN, the carrying of a firearm CC or OC is a crime and having a permit is a defense to that crime. Very different laws from state to state.

    The OP did not need to show the firearms license but I support his decision to do so to avoid the ride.
    that's interesting. in PA, carrying a firearm concealed is a felony. having a license is an exception to the law, which sounds like the opposite of what you're saying. basically, in PA, if a LEO suspects you have a concealed firearm, he can demand to see a license to make sure you aren't committing a felony. of course, open carry is legal, except on Philly; there, we need to have a license to carry openly or concealed.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •