OC-moto450r
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In Georgia carrying a firearm is NOT a crime. Not possessing a license to carry the firearm is an element of the crime of carrying without a license. What that means is that the state must prove you do not have a license. The officer cannot detain you or demand to see a permit because he has no RAS to believe you have, are or are going to commit a crime.if your gun was under your shirt, then it was concealed. if it was concealed, don't you need to have a license/permit for that, and aren't you required to provide it under lawful demand?
In Georgia carrying a firearm is NOT a crime. Not possessing a license to carry the firearm is an element of the crime of carrying without a license. What that means is that the state must prove you do not have a license. The officer cannot detain you or demand to see a permit because he has no RAS to believe you have, are or are going to commit a crime.
In Georgia before SB308 a firearm license was a DEFENSE to the crime of carrying a concealed weapon but only when concealed. That is no more. CC is now the same as OC (completely legal activity unless you don't have a license.) In TN, the carrying of a firearm CC or OC is a crime and having a permit is a defense to that crime. Very different laws from state to state.
The OP did not need to show the firearms license but I support his decision to do so to avoid the ride.
Am I free to go?
Correct. Sound like GA and PA used to be the same as far as carrying concealed was a crime and a license could be demanded but OC is not a crime (though in GA lack of having one while carrying is the crime.) Now OC and CC are legal with a license in GA but if the officer has RAS or PC that you don't have one, he could detain but cannot for just carrying as it is a completely legal activity.that's interesting. in PA, carrying a firearm concealed is a felony. having a license is an exception to the law, which sounds like the opposite of what you're saying. basically, in PA, if a LEO suspects you have a concealed firearm, he can demand to see a license to make sure you aren't committing a felony. of course, open carry is legal, except on Philly; there, we need to have a license to carry openly or concealed.
yes, my FIREARMS license, not my drivers license which he tried to demand.
I had NO PROBLEM showing him my firearms license, which I did
I know in Michigan before they changes their new cps law that Printing was illegal here.
If you have a Georgia Firearms license then it doesn't have a picture, so he had every right to ask for your driver's license to verify it was your license and not stolen/lost from another person. After all you had to show your driver's license to obtain the carrying permit to begin with.
You are correct. The officer had every right to ask. And the OP had every right to refuse to show it. A demand for the driver's license to validate the GHL could not be made without reasonable and articulable suspispicion that the Georgia Handgun License was falsified or stolen...
Thankfully, there are several high position courts that disagree with you. One is the Washington State Supreme Court in State v. Casad:
http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=9
No RAS because of carrying firearms, therefore no authority to detain Casad for a Terry stop.
Another one is the New Mexico United States (Federal) District Court in St. John v. Alamagordo:
http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=52
Again, no RAS simply because of the presence of the gun.
Would you waive your 2nd Amendment rights and leave your gun locked in your house simply because a person with a uniform and a badge asked you to? Why not? Would you consider it to be confrontational if you refused and lawfully carried your gun anyway? I've been asked by a LEO to cover my gun before, and I said no. Was that confrontational? Or, if a police officer pulls you over for speeding and asks to search the trunk of your car, is it confrontational if you say no?
If you won't waive your 2nd Amendment rights and leave your gun at home, why are you so willing to waive your 4th Amendment rights? What is there to be gained by simply waiving your 4th Amendment rights? Why is it OK for a person to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights, but yet when they exercise their 4th Amendment rights now they are being confrontational? If it wasn't for the 4th Amendment protections the 2nd Amendment would mean nothing because police could simply search and seize firearms at will under "color of law". Without the 4th Amendment there would be nothing keeping them from doing so. The 4th Amendment applies as much to my personal identity and identification documents as it does to my house, my car and my person and is just as important to exercise in all those areas. Would you waive your 4th Amendment rights and let a cop search your house, just to prove that you had nothing illegal there? You have nothing to hide, aren't you just being confrontational if you say no? Why are you so willing to let a cop do so with your personal identity?
Generally, no, you don't have to.scottw1979 said:Do you not have to show your driver's license when you go through a police check point they randomly put up in the road some where?
There is no probable cause there either, do you refuse then? I doubt it.
Yes, it does.Simply proving your identity does not fall under "search and seizure".
Officer E. Howell of the Atlanta PD stopped me while I had a hand full of groceries because he saw my handgun printing under my shirt. Luckily I managed to turn my phones voice recorder on in time and recorded the entire encounter.
From when he asked for a permit, tried to make me show him my license, threatened to "make this difficult" and bring his sergeant into it, as he approached me with his hand on the grip of his gun.
After his sergeant eventually told him he didn't have a leg to stand on, he left me alone.
Wish you could have seen the look on his face when I bluffed him about "calling my Attorney Doug King" his eyes got big on me.
But eventually he left me alone and I went on my way.
damn shame sometimes to get the engine to run right you have to use the choke.
This day and time any one carrying a weapon is "reasonable and articulable suspispicion". Sad, but true. I have a permit as well and use it. I would have no promblem showing my permit AND my photo ID to a LEO. Sounds like to me ya'll are just trying to confrontational when ther is really no need.