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Thread: City of Ferndale- do they just like messing with people?

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    City of Ferndale- do they just like messing with people?

    i have a buddy who applied for a PTP in ferndale a couple months ago. they jerked him around for a couple weeks telling him to come back because it wasn't ready yet. they finally told him the detective had it and he would give my buddy a call when it was ready. finally, he got a letter from detective Lt. wilson stating that his purchase permit was being denied because they had reason to believe he'd be a danger to himself or others or commit a criminal offense. however, they did not cite the specific probable cause for denial. he went ahead and applied for the CPL which was approved in less than a month, no issues at all. what gives? does ferndale just like trampling rights? anyone from that area have any stories?

    i told my buddy to have fun when he goes in to drop off his RI-60... maybe drop it off with a copy of his denial letter
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 07-20-2011 at 04:03 PM.
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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Yes Ferndale has a record of doing this with PP
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i told him he should go in and ask them to specifically cite the PC for denial, but he said he didn't want to kick the hive until after he had his CPL in hand. understandable.
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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Well, the big difference is, his CPL is issued by the county gun board. So far as I know, local CLEOs don't sit on the gun board, only the sheriff and state police, along with usually, the county prosecutor, some "other" citizen, and I think, maybe the county clerk.

    The PtP, on the other hand is issued by the local PD, or the county sheriff if you live outside city limits. I wish I could be there when he takes in the RI-60 form.
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  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i understand the difference between the issuing bodies, what i don't understand is how ferndale could do a background check and find probable cause and the county did the same background check, if not MORE thorough and didn't find probable cause?
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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    i understand the difference between the issuing bodies, what i don't understand is how ferndale could do a background check and find probable cause and the county did the same background check, if not MORE thorough and didn't find probable cause?
    Well, this is just a guess on my part, but I'd say the County Sheriff isn't as "inventive" as the local police.
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    yes, they are no doubt a more professional organization who follows the law instead of bending it to suit a personal agenda
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    How much you want to bet the City did not even do a BI?

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    You need a permit to purchase a handgun in Michigan? Is that what this is about?

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    You need a permit to purchase a handgun in Michigan?
    Yes. Or a Concealed Pistol License.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    You need a permit to purchase a handgun in Michigan? Is that what this is about?
    Yup, it's part of the racist based handgun registration law that was enacted back in the 1920's after the Dr. Ossian Sweet incident in Detroit.
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    You need a permit to purchase a handgun in Michigan? Is that what this is about?
    yep, i had no idea... until 6 months after i moved here back in 2005... oops.
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    How much you want to bet the City did not even do a BI?
    i wondered the same thing, the letter stated probably cause without citing it, so i was wondering if it was a form letter that they send out to everyone the first time they apply just to discourage lawful gun ownership. the whole thing is stupid, they guy is perfectly legal to own all the unregistered rifles he wants... he's got a pretty decent collection. couple tactical shotguns, couple ARs, couple hunting rifles. any one of those would be more devastating than a pistol if used outside the law. but guess what, they're not used outside the law, because he's a law abiding citizen. all the more reason to do away with stupid permission slips, ie PTP and CPL
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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    i wondered the same thing, the letter stated probably cause without citing it, so i was wondering if it was a form letter that they send out to everyone the first time they apply just to discourage lawful gun ownership. the whole thing is stupid, they guy is perfectly legal to own all the unregistered rifles he wants... he's got a pretty decent collection. couple tactical shotguns, couple ARs, couple hunting rifles. any one of those would be more devastating than a pistol if used outside the law. but guess what, they're not used outside the law, because he's a law abiding citizen. all the more reason to do away with stupid permission slips, ie PTP and CPL
    "Probably cause" or Probable cause?

    In any event, sounds like typical bull feces to me. I find it odd it took that long for them to notify him. When ever I'd go to get a PtP, (before I got my CPL) the local police or sheriff's office would do the background check right then, and I'd know if there was a problem in about 2 minutes or less.
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    oh, in that case i mean probably cause

    because he definitely didn't have probable cause.

    maybe he had maybe or possible cause.
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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Sounds like a great reason to get the P2P law repealed. I think a good pro-gun rep could make a convincing case in the legislature that the PD's are denying people their rights to purchase handguns, when clearly a more thorough background check done by the county gun board didn't turn up any issues.
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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    Sounds like a great reason to get the P2P law repealed. I think a good pro-gun rep could make a convincing case in the legislature that the PD's are denying people their rights to purchase handguns, when clearly a more thorough background check done by the county gun board didn't turn up any issues.
    I have created a legislative change to support removal of the LTP/PPP, but not many people are interested in trying to move this forward...

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    I have created a legislative change to support removal of the LTP/PPP, but not many people are interested in trying to move this forward...
    Maybe if we started hitting them with the racist beginnings of the LTP/PPP law, that might get some attention. More to the point, does anyone know, have any crimes been solved via the handgun registration, OTHER than finding stolen guns?
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 07-22-2011 at 03:17 AM.
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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Maybe if we started hitting them with the racist beginnings of the LTP/PPP law, that might get some attention. More to the point, does anyone know, have any crimes been solved via the handgun registration, OTHER than finding stolen guns?
    If it was solving crimes, then I would imagine it would be touted far and wide.

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    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    what incident was possibly on his record to give them cause to deny??? had to be something. nothing on his record would be impossible for them to defend in court. nothing against your friend but i'm the only one i read that wonders what he could have lurking in his past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    what incident was possibly on his record to give them cause to deny??? had to be something. nothing on his record would be impossible for them to defend in court. nothing against your friend but i'm the only one i read that wonders what he could have lurking in his past.
    Anything lurking in his past would have been uncovered at the county gun board review of his application. The county found nothing but the city did? I doubt it. Sounds like they were jerking the guy around. I'll bet they do it to everyone.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Food for thought:

    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    what incident was possibly on his record to give them cause to deny??? had to be something. nothing on his record would be impossible for them to defend in court. nothing against your friend but i'm the only one i read that wonders what he could have lurking in his past.
    Because MI gun law is so weak in regards to police accountability, some PD's [if they choose so] can and do abuse based on if they like the person or not. You mention court. Most people are not willing to spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to force the police to issue a purchase permit. As to the person being talked about here, if Ferndale does really have it in for him - he may find that when he turns in a RI-60 that they do not register it correctly. So if he ever does get stopped with a newer pistol that has not been registered to him and in the "SYSTEM" for some time he could get jammed up.

    I can tell from your posts kryptonian you were an honest cop. Now put on the "what if I wasn't hat / how could I mess with this guy hat" & you can see where the "FUN" can begin for a citizen who has done nothing wrong other than to be deemed unworthy by a corrupt officer(s). Thankfully most PD's are above this kind of pettiness but there are a few around that are not. I think we may have identified another one of them here.

    I smell a FERNDALE OC PICNIC event brewing

    http://ferndale.patch.com/articles/f...ifferent-story

    My vote is for Martin Road park [grills / playground for kids / bathrooms etc...]
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 07-22-2011 at 11:32 PM. Reason: add parks link
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    what incident was possibly on his record to give them cause to deny??? had to be something. nothing on his record would be impossible for them to defend in court. nothing against your friend but i'm the only one i read that wonders what he could have lurking in his past.
    he had one alcohol related incident that was old enough past the number of years that would have disqualified him.
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    Anything lurking in his past would have been uncovered at the county gun board review of his application. The county found nothing but the city did? I doubt it. Sounds like they were jerking the guy around. I'll bet they do it to everyone.
    exactly.
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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    what incident was possibly on his record to give them cause to deny??? had to be something. nothing on his record would be impossible for them to defend in court. nothing against your friend but i'm the only one i read that wonders what he could have lurking in his past.
    May be nothing.

    This is what I have been told by a few PD in this regard. They have a lot of power in this regard. A person can have a clean BG check and be denied. You see they have their own data base that is double super secret. So if a resident is a gadfly and complains about things, in particular about the PD they get denied. If the resident has had run-ins with the PD with no arrest, etc.. they get denied. For example one denied a resident because the resident's mom didn't want her son to have a gun. They will use any excuse they want.

    There is no legal criteria for denials, it's all discretionary. The only recourse is to hire an attorney and challenge them, and most people can't afford that. I would recommend a state rep be contacted and let them pressure the local PD. That is, if the state rep is pro-gun.

    We need to abolish local control of purchase permits, there is too much abuse.
    Last edited by Venator; 07-23-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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