Dumb people in our neighborhood

Citizen said:

We want to be a little careful that we don't scare ourselves into assuming the worst in all cases from a steady diet of self-defense and crime stories.

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You mean, being like the cops?
I think it'd be a terrible attitude adjustment to have to assume the worst about whomever you encounter.
Amazing any of them manage to stay relatively friendly.

eye95 said:

I wonder if he would've ever said, "We want to be a little careful that we don't scare ourselves into assuming the worst in all cases from a steady diet of police abuse stories." Would that have earned a "+1"?

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Since that wasn't the statement that I replied to, I guess you can just keep wondering...

just clarifying a bit on my OP, by the time I got out there, they were off my property, they never saw me nor new I was carrying, no gun in hand or anything, just lawful OC. My phrase being "I wasnt about to go chasing some stupid teens with a .45 in my hand" may have been misinterpreted as it was in my hand already, it was not, it was I am not going to draw my gun and go chase.

All in all I do appreciate everyones feedback, I didnt do anything unlawful, but I could have done a bit more thinking in my going out in the first place.

As for Grand Torino, I did enjoy the movie, but just as I enjoyed Transformers, its a movie and in no way shape or form something I will base real life off of.


Tim

Blk97F150 said:

Since that wasn't the statement that I replied to, I guess you can just keep wondering...

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I guess I can.

I guess you won't answer the portion of the question directed to you.

And the point was made, so I don't really care.

at 11:30 pm it's DARK, so a dark figured person with an unknown weapon in hand, lurking near my front window means SET DEFCON 2 , prepare for incoming Birds & READY my birds for snap count massive retaliatory strike ... I would have waited with weapon & Surefire G2 in hand inside the DARK house WHILE WATCHING target close...since in Wisc you can not be the aggressor

skidmark said:

I hope you are suggesting just the words. Actually bringing the firearm up to bear on them is clearly the unlawful use of deadly force.

And Walt was just as wrong going outside to confront them as we are suggesting the OP was. (Yeah, without the scene there's no movie. But that's the point - it's just a movie.)

There's an uptick in the I-wannabe-a-hero/cop/the Lone Ranger on the boards again. While nobody is suggesting we all cower in our basements in abject fear, it's important to remember where the line between self-defense and aggressive acts is located. We want to be securely on the self-defense side at all times.

stay safe.

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No, I'm actually advocating pulling an M-1 outside and threatening to turn the kids into sandbags ((EYEROLL))

It was a joke.

And the Lone Ranger was awesome, btw...

Be glad you didn't draw on the kid. You had no legal justification to do so outside of your home as you had no compelling reason to be out there, even in a stand your ground state. I would have watched from inside after calling the cops. Threatened use of deadly force away from Castle Doctrine, absent compelling reason, is aggravated assault. Glad things worked out ok, but keep in mind that you open Pandora's Box when you draw a weapon outside of your dwelling--even on your own property.

Gunslinger said:

Be glad you didn't draw on the kid. You had no legal justification to do so outside of your home as you had no compelling reason to be out there, even in a stand your ground state. I would have watched from inside after calling the cops. Threatened use of deadly force away from Castle Doctrine, absent compelling reason, is aggravated assault. Glad things worked out ok, but keep in mind that you open Pandora's Box when you draw a weapon outside of your dwelling--even on your own property.

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Excuse me??? I have every right and business to be on my property at any time, day or night, to find out what a stranger is doing on my property! (Not that you said anything directed at ME personally, but to recommend that he had no justification to go outside ... well, there you go :shocker

That is why I have the 80lb alarm sentry outside ... and when he barks, I get up and go check ... including going outside with whatever level of defense I feel I need at that time ... it is usually the .45, cell phone and my high powered flash light. What I don't do is go out to 'sneak up' on someone ... they are pinned in the spot of the flash light and I or the ex are asking them, "What do you want?"

Personally, I would recommend that the OP turn the porch/outside light on before exiting the house, and to have exited the house from the front door ... yes, he would have been visible in the light, but that is the point. Most BGs are in the dark/out at night for a reason ... to hide in the shadows, so throwing some light on the situation will generally drive the BG to somewhere else.

Just my .02, take it or leave it as you like

Howdy Amigo!
Wow, I think I'd have forted up and stayed inside while on the phone to 911.

Meanwhile, on another topic relevant to your experience....
You don't have security lights outside your house? You know the type. The ones that have motion sensors to light up when something comes onto your property? Maybe consider having them at any location where a burgler might seek access in the night?

If the kid had strayed onto your property, only to have the place light up like an airport runway, he'd have quickly departed without your intervention.

Maybe I'm a bit odd, but I feel that self defense should include a secure home. Motion activated night lights can be a real deterrent to nefarious types. One of the best ways to keep them out of your house is to make it uncomfortable for them to approach at the outset.
Think in terms of home security.
Alarm system with 24 hour monitoring: Check!
Motion activated lights around your house: Check!
Doors locked with deadbolts: Check!
Windows secured, virtually impossible to open: Check!
Replace glass in windows with thick unbreakable lucite: Check!
Lawn laced with land mines: Well, something to budget for perhaps!
External night vision video: Check!

Hope something here might stimulate thinking on securing your home against intrusion.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

okboomer said:

excuse me??? i have every right and business to be on my property at any time, day or night, to find out what a stranger is doing on my property! (not that you said anything directed at me personally, but to recommend that he had no justification to go outside ... Well, there you go :shocker

that is why i have the 80lb alarm sentry outside ... And when he barks, i get up and go check ... Including going outside with whatever level of defense i feel i need at that time ... It is usually the .45, cell phone and my high powered flash light. What i don't do is go out to 'sneak up' on someone ... They are pinned in the spot of the flash light and i or the ex are asking them, "what do you want?"

personally, i would recommend that the op turn the porch/outside light on before exiting the house, and to have exited the house from the front door ... Yes, he would have been visible in the light, but that is the point. Most bgs are in the dark/out at night for a reason ... To hide in the shadows, so throwing some light on the situation will generally drive the bg to somewhere else.

Just my .02, take it or leave it as you like

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agreed 100%

okboomer said:

Excuse me??? I have every right and business to be on my property at any time, day or night, to find out what a stranger is doing on my property! (Not that you said anything directed at ME personally, but to recommend that he had no justification to go outside ... well, there you go :shocker

snip :

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Yes you do. But you only have the 'right' to use 'reasonable' force, not deadly force, for an unarmed tresspasser. If you point a weapon at an unarmed tresspasser in most states, "you" have violated the law. Carry it, make sure he sees it, but don't pull it unless you can affirmatively defend fear of death or grievous bodily harm.

I think you're confusing "compelling reason" to offer deadly force for just being outside. Not my intended meaning of the term.

eye95 said:

I wonder if he would've ever said, "We want to be a little careful that we don't scare ourselves into assuming the worst in all cases from a steady diet of police abuse stories." Would that have earned a "+1"?

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Trolling again?

Gunslinger said:

Be glad you didn't draw on the kid. You had no legal justification to do so outside of your home as you had no compelling reason to be out there, even in a stand your ground state. I would have watched from inside after calling the cops. Threatened use of deadly force away from Castle Doctrine, absent compelling reason, is aggravated assault. Glad things worked out ok, but keep in mind that you open Pandora's Box when you draw a weapon outside of your dwelling--even on your own property.

Click to expand...

okboomer said:

Excuse me??? I have every right and business to be on my property at any time, day or night, to find out what a stranger is doing on my property! (Not that you said anything directed at ME personally, but to recommend that he had no justification to go outside ... well, there you go :shocker

That is why I have the 80lb alarm sentry outside ... and when he barks, I get up and go check ... including going outside with whatever level of defense I feel I need at that time ... it is usually the .45, cell phone and my high powered flash light. What I don't do is go out to 'sneak up' on someone ... they are pinned in the spot of the flash light and I or the ex are asking them, "What do you want?"

Personally, I would recommend that the OP turn the porch/outside light on before exiting the house, and to have exited the house from the front door ... yes, he would have been visible in the light, but that is the point. Most BGs are in the dark/out at night for a reason ... to hide in the shadows, so throwing some light on the situation will generally drive the BG to somewhere else.

Just my .02, take it or leave it as you like

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Gunslinger said:

Yes you do. But you only have the 'right' to use 'reasonable' force, not deadly force, for an unarmed tresspasser. If you point a weapon at an unarmed tresspasser in most states, "you" have violated the law. Carry it, make sure he sees it, but don't pull it unless you can affirmatively defend fear of death or grievous bodily harm.

I think you're confusing "compelling reason" to offer deadly force for just being outside. Not my intended meaning of the term.

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Please point out where I am "confusing 'compelling reason' to offer deadly force for just being outside" ... As I said, and I believe the point the OP is making is that at 'oh-dark-thirty' he saw someone ON HIS PROPERTY with something in his hand that he could not identify until he got outside and closer to the subject.

He didn't 'offer deadly force' for the kids just being outside, he armed himself IN CASE OF A SITUATION and investigated someone TRESPASSING on his property during a time that has been widely recognized as the "criminal hour" in which a multitude of crimes are committed (basically, after dark.) When he assertained that they were kids playing paintball he retreated back into his residence and went back to a more relaxed condition.

As I said, I would suggest that instead of his manner of exiting the home, he should 'light up' and assertively ask what they were doing.

eye95 said:

I guess you won't answer the portion of the question directed to you.

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Howdy Amigo!
That's your favorite tactic. I seem to recall a recent post where I, along with others on the forum, repeatedly asked you to provide support for an outrageous claim. We kept asking, and you consistently attacked those who asked. You ain't got a very good record of answering that question directed to you, so how can you chide somebody else who doesn't. If you expect to hold others responsible to answer a question put to them, why not start with yourself?

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

okboomer said:

Please point out where I am "confusing 'compelling reason' to offer deadly force for just being outside" ... As I said, and I believe the point the OP is making is that at 'oh-dark-thirty' he saw someone ON HIS PROPERTY with something in his hand that he could not identify until he got outside and closer to the subject.

He didn't 'offer deadly force' for the kids just being outside, he armed himself IN CASE OF A SITUATION and investigated someone TRESPASSING on his property during a time that has been widely recognized as the "criminal hour" in which a multitude of crimes are committed (basically, after dark.) When he assertained that they were kids playing paintball he retreated back into his residence and went back to a more relaxed condition.

As I said, I would suggest that instead of his manner of exiting the home, he should 'light up' and assertively ask what they were doing.

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Thank you okboomer! I feel like you have best described the situation, I wasnt looking for trouble, but am also prepared should trouble find me.
The side of the house he was on was a side with no outside lights, believe me I would have loved my halogens out there, but the Surefire was the only thing readily available to light up that area.


Tim

I think the OP was perfectly justified to go outside and assess the situation more closely. Since I do go paintballing frequently with my friends I wouldn't have left the house without some ear and face impact protection. I do agree with most here that paintballing at night is purely moronic as it makes it difficult to tell wether the person you are firing upon is a participant in the game or an innocent curious civillian. We organize our games by locating a large empty wooded piece of land and getting permission from the property owner or owners. We then map the area using Google Earth and distribute flyers to the surrounding homes making them aware of what is going on, when we'll be playing, where the game will take place, and inviting them to participate if they have their own equipment.

eye95 said:

I guess I can.

I guess you won't answer the portion of the question directed to you.

And the point was made, so I don't really care.

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You're funny. Take someone elses comments, twist them completely out of context.. then somehow infer that because I didn't reply to your version... it somehow 'makes a point'?? Uh...yeah... ok.... whatever.....

Although, a point was probably made. Just not the one you think. :uhoh:

okboomer said:

Please point out where I am "confusing 'compelling reason' to offer deadly force for just being outside" ... As I said, and I believe the point the OP is making is that at 'oh-dark-thirty' he saw someone ON HIS PROPERTY with something in his hand that he could not identify until he got outside and closer to the subject.

He didn't 'offer deadly force' for the kids just being outside, he armed himself IN CASE OF A SITUATION and investigated someone TRESPASSING on his property during a time that has been widely recognized as the "criminal hour" in which a multitude of crimes are committed (basically, after dark.) When he assertained that they were kids playing paintball he retreated back into his residence and went back to a more relaxed condition.

As I said, I would suggest that instead of his manner of exiting the home, he should 'light up' and assertively ask what they were doing.

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Let's not get hung up on symantics. He was perfectly justified in arming himself and going outside. He had not compelling reason to point a weapon at the kid--or any other simple trespasser. Hence, my statement that he should "be glad you didn't draw on the kid." And we agree on what would have been the best approach: viz., stay inside.

okboomer said:

Please point out where I am "confusing 'compelling reason' to offer deadly force for just being outside" ... As I said, and I believe the point the OP is making is that at 'oh-dark-thirty' he saw someone ON HIS PROPERTY with something in his hand that he could not identify until he got outside and closer to the subject.

He didn't 'offer deadly force' for the kids just being outside, he armed himself IN CASE OF A SITUATION and investigated someone TRESPASSING on his property during a time that has been widely recognized as the "criminal hour" in which a multitude of crimes are committed (basically, after dark.) When he assertained that they were kids playing paintball he retreated back into his residence and went back to a more relaxed condition.

As I said, I would suggest that instead of his manner of exiting the home, he should 'light up' and assertively ask what they were doing.

Click to expand...

Let's not get hung up on symantics. He was perfectly justified in arming himself and going outside. He had not compelling reason to point a weapon at the kid--or any other simple trespasser. Hence, my statement that he should "be glad you didn't draw on the kid." And we agree on what would have been the best approach: viz., stay inside.

tim12232 said:

Thank you okboomer! I feel like you have best described the situation, I wasnt looking for trouble, but am also prepared should trouble find me.
The side of the house he was on was a side with no outside lights, believe me I would have loved my halogens out there, but the Surefire was the only thing readily available to light up that area.


Tim

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Thanks for clarifying that item ... I also have one side of the house that is dark ... even have a door going out that way, I but I will exit from the other side of the house and use the flash light to light the area ... I AM NOT going into a darkened area without giving my eyes time to adjust to the ambient light (with flashlight)