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Thread: Fairfax County Police open fire on a man armed with a shotgun in his own house

  1. #1
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    Fairfax County Police open fire on a man armed with a shotgun in his own house

    Fairfax County Police said a 34-year-old Centreville man was shot to death after he refused to drop his gun and approached their officers.

    Police spokeswoman Officer Tawny Wright received two calls — one from inside the house and one from a neighbor — for a domestic disturbance at a town home in the 6100 block of Kendra Way around 1:30 a.m. Thursday. Police arrived and saw several broken windows and the garage door was open. A man was inside the garage with a shotgun, Wright said.

    The man approached the officers, who ordered him to stop and drop his weapon. The man refused and continued toward them, and one or more officers fired on him, Wright said.

    Police tried to resuscitate the man, but he was pronounced dead at the scene



    Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...#ixzz1SlplReEj

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Ah, this article has more detail then the other one being discussed. In this case it seems the officers were justified.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 07-21-2011 at 03:42 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    After having read that article, I still don't know anything. Who was "the man"? Was he the homeowner? Did they ask him whether he was the homeowner before they shot him? Was he simply shot for failure to obey the order (of questionable legality), or was he shot for having presented an imminent threat of serious bodily injury? That is, what, exactly, did he do with the gun that was threatening to the cops? Since the only witness against the cops is now dead, I'd say the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate that they had a good and lawful reason to shoot the guy.

    The trend is to require that everyone other than the cops be disarmed in the presence of the cops "for officer safety" is a load of hogwash, in my opinion. If "the man" was the homeowner and was carrying the shotgun in a safe manner, (point the muzzle in a safe direction, finger off the trigger, preferably unloaded or action open), and not presenting any imminent threat, then I'd say this is a case of second degree murder. If any one of those conditions was not present (the guy was not the homeowner, was not carrying safely, and especially if he did something, whether intentionally or carelessly, to make the cops think there was a real threat) then it's justifiable homicide.

    But there are no facts in that article that tell us, one way or the other; since the cops are the only source of relevant fact for that article, I think it suggests that they feel that they've got something to hide.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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    Link to the other thread regarding this topic:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...in-Centreville

    Again I'll ask (to no one in particular...).... did anyone other then FCPD witness the man 'pointing the gun at the officers'?

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    The cops aren't going to release details until a thorough investigation (like all murder investigations regardless if it involves the police). Did anyone else read in the article that two separate sources called the police regarding a domestic disturbance? One was even inside the house (if you accept the article at face value), which given many circumstances would allow for a warrantless entry into the house (community care taking doctrine).

    Lol at the comment that a shotgun with the breach open is not a threat. Conspiracy theories, blood thirsty Fairfax Pd wanted to execute someone.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Lol at the comment that a shotgun with the breach open is not a threat. Conspiracy theories, blood thirsty Fairfax Pd wanted to execute someone.
    Last edited by peter nap; 08-01-2011 at 02:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaCop10 View Post
    Lol at the comment that a shotgun with the breach open is not a threat. Conspiracy theories, blood thirsty Fairfax Pd wanted to execute someone.
    Context fail, try again herp derp.

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    Here's another question: was the man who was shot capable of normal hearing? That is, if he was hard of hearing or even deaf, he may not have perceived the cops' commands to put the gun down, and if so, then they may have shot him without giving him a real opportunity to comply.
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Here's another question: was the man who was shot capable of normal hearing? That is, if he was hard of hearing or even deaf, he may not have perceived the cops' commands to put the gun down, and if so, then they may have shot him without giving him a real opportunity to comply.
    LoL those damn officers should have given him instructions in sign language. Hmm maybe he was blind too? So a deaf man being involved in a domestic disturbance and seeing uniformed officers coming towards you isn't enough of a hint to drop a shotgun you are carrying. A lot of speculation going on here..

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Is a law abiding citizen required to surrender a fundamental right upon demand of NOVACOP? no.

    Is the NOVACOP mentality to shoot armed people that do not do what NOVACOP says? seems so.

    Would NOVACOP present an imminent threat of serious bodily injury to the armed law abiding citizen? yes.

    Who is justified in shooting in such a situation?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaCop10 View Post
    LoL those damn officers should have given him instructions in sign language. ...
    Or maybe a minute to watch him and see what he's up to before shooting him.

    Quote Originally Posted by NovaCop10 View Post
    ...So a deaf man being involved in a domestic disturbance and seeing uniformed officers coming towards you isn't enough of a hint to drop a shotgun you are carrying....
    What domestic disturbance? There were noises and someone called the police. The police entered the home and found a man, presumably the homeowner, in the home. No, there's no hint to the homeowner who's supposed to be there, and lawfully entitled to carry whatever items of personal property he may feel like carrying, including weapons, in his own home. Now, I'm wondering whether the police were presenting a threat to that man; were weapons already drawn, and was the cop's finger on the trigger? In other words, did they enter a man's home brandishing firearms such that he would have been lawfully entitled to have blown them away?

    Quote Originally Posted by NovaCop10 View Post
    ...A lot of speculation going on here..
    Exactly right. I am in complete agreement. It's almost all speculation, and that points to the main issue: no information forthcoming from the police. What are they trying to hide, and why? Is there something they should be telling us? (The last two sentences are intended as humor, since those are things that cops use on people they pull over on fishing expeditions to find "contraband".) But the fact is, all we know right now is that cops entered a guy's house and shot him. Possession of a weapon in his own home is not a valid reason to shoot, nor is the failure to obey a command that was not lawfully given. All we have is speculation. I see that as the main problem.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Novacop always has hissy fits when HIS department gets their *** in the ringer.

    This time it appears they shot another Cop which is a little like cannibalism.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    After having read that article, I still don't know anything. Who was "the man"? Was he the homeowner? Did they ask him whether he was the homeowner before they shot him? Was he simply shot for failure to obey the order (of questionable legality), or was he shot for having presented an imminent threat of serious bodily injury? That is, what, exactly, did he do with the gun that was threatening to the cops? Since the only witness against the cops is now dead, I'd say the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate that they had a good and lawful reason to shoot the guy.

    The trend is to require that everyone other than the cops be disarmed in the presence of the cops "for officer safety" is a load of hogwash, in my opinion. If "the man" was the homeowner and was carrying the shotgun in a safe manner, (point the muzzle in a safe direction, finger off the trigger, preferably unloaded or action open), and not presenting any imminent threat, then I'd say this is a case of second degree murder. If any one of those conditions was not present (the guy was not the homeowner, was not carrying safely, and especially if he did something, whether intentionally or carelessly, to make the cops think there was a real threat) then it's justifiable homicide.

    But there are no facts in that article that tell us, one way or the other; since the cops are the only source of relevant fact for that article, I think it suggests that they feel that they've got something to hide.
    1+
    In the 70+year history of the Fairfax County police, no officer has been charged with a crime for shooting someone in the line of duty.



    Quote Originally Posted by NovaCop10 View Post
    blood thirsty Fairfax Pd wanted to execute someone.
    Let's ask the Eye Dr and the former Green Beret.
    Last edited by Marco; 08-03-2011 at 11:27 AM.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Is a law abiding citizen required to surrender a fundamental right upon demand of NOVACOP? no.

    Is the NOVACOP mentality to shoot armed people that do not do what NOVACOP says? seems so.

    Would NOVACOP present an imminent threat of serious bodily injury to the armed law abiding citizen? yes.

    Who is justified in shooting in such a situation?

    Took the words right out of my mouth.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    Took the words right out of my mouth.
    Well.......maybe not Novacop

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    Officers involved in this shooting cleared by Commonwealth's Attorney.

    Link

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by optiksguy View Post
    Officers involved in this shooting cleared by Commonwealth's Attorney.

    Link
    Do a little google time and you'll find that Fairfax Police pretty much have immunity from prosecution.

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    I'd say the next of kin have a pretty good basis for a lawsuit for wrongful death!
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member jnojr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Here's another question: was the man who was shot capable of normal hearing? That is, if he was hard of hearing or even deaf, he may not have perceived the cops' commands to put the gun down, and if so, then they may have shot him without giving him a real opportunity to comply.
    Umm, if someone comes at me with a weapon, and I tell them to drop it and back off, and they don't... what am I supposed to do? What if he hears, but speaks Swahili? Do I need to find a Swahili translator?

    Uniformed police yelling at you is pretty much universal for "Put the weapon down".
    Virginians - Have you joined http://www.vcdl.org/ ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnojr View Post
    Umm, if someone comes at me with a weapon, and I tell them to drop it and back off, and they don't... what am I supposed to do? What if he hears, but speaks Swahili? Do I need to find a Swahili translator?

    Uniformed police yelling at you is pretty much universal for "Put the weapon down".
    What? You support the police actions of self defense? You should be ashamed, jk. Good luck trying to express common sense on this board, it's a losing battle.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaCop10 View Post
    What? You support the police actions of self defense? You should be ashamed, jk. Good luck trying to express common sense on this board, it's a losing battle.
    Last edited by peter nap; 09-02-2011 at 08:15 PM.

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