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Thread: "...you're under arrest for resisting arrest..."

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Angry "...you're under arrest for resisting arrest..."

    My favorite quote.



    I'm sure some of you have seen this since it's a bit old, but for those who haven't I thought it was worth bringing up.
    This woman is stopped for no reason at all and given a nazi germany like statement of "i need to know who you are to travel down this road"


    Under arrest for resisting arrest, obstructing justice, and assault a police officer. (apparently if a LEO has pulled you from a vehicle for no lawful reason you are assaulting him....even though YOU are being assaulted)

    Good bye constitution, it was nice knowing you!



    (I was unsure if this would be the right section to post in, but I saw some other stuff that was LEO and not OC centered so I thought this would be okay in General, sorry if it's not!)

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Yep, that's a classic video. A good one too. Unfortunately, there are hundreds of videos like this that show the police breaking the law. That's the real shame.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    What was the ultimate outcome?

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What was the ultimate outcome?
    According to the youtube description and end of the video she beat the charges in court. Trying to find a more definitive answer...
    Last edited by thebigsd; 07-21-2011 at 11:45 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I think SCOTUS really screwed up when they allowed sobriety checkpoints, and don't consider cars a part of 'travel.' It flies in the face of that whole unreasonable search / probable cause thing as well as right to travel, etc. Of course now the original checkpoint is known as the jumping off point for all manor of intrusion. Alcohol, drugs, licensed, inspection, the list goes on.

    I'm curious to know if she beat all the charges. So the next time the VSP tries to check me I can just yell "Abbey Newman" and just ride away laughing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I think SCOTUS really screwed up when they allowed sobriety checkpoints, and don't consider cars a part of 'travel.' It flies in the face of that whole unreasonable search / probable cause thing as well as right to travel, etc. Of course now the original checkpoint is known as the jumping off point for all manor of intrusion. Alcohol, drugs, licensed, inspection, the list goes on.

    I'm curious to know if she beat all the charges. So the next time the VSP tries to check me I can just yell "Abbey Newman" and just ride away laughing.
    I always try to live in an unobtrusive manor. Something the peasants won't notice when they come bearing torches and pitchforks.


    Seriously, though, if I recall, the roadblock business was approved by SCOTUS as being a minimal intrusion compared to government interest--according to their logic, anyway.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What was the ultimate outcome?
    Watch the video for this information.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    THis is the type of police video that gets me fired up.

    The recent ohio video of the dimwit picking up hookers... well, he had it coming...


    But this... this is just a lady going about her business and refusing to ID when she wasn't stopped for a specific infraction.


    Amazing the cop had the balls to reach in.. open door... then later on pull her out of her car... for what?!


    In Lansing, the cops KILL you when you don't pull your motorcycle over...

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    All Law Enforcers in this country are Agents of Corporations.
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    and have no authority, without CONSENT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    THis is the type of police video that gets me fired up.

    The recent ohio video of the dimwit picking up hookers... well, he had it coming...


    But this... this is just a lady going about her business and refusing to ID when she wasn't stopped for a specific infraction.


    Amazing the cop had the balls to reach in.. open door... then later on pull her out of her car... for what?!


    In Lansing, the cops KILL you when you don't pull your motorcycle over...


    WOW


    I was unaware that anyone who is told, they need their head caved in or 10 shots put in them, by a LEO had it coming. I watched the video of the incident in Ohio and thought the guy gave an explanation just as feasable as the LEO's, as to why he was where he was. Let's also remember that he was not charged with anything related to prostitution.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    My favorite quote.



    I'm sure some of you have seen this since it's a bit old, but for those who haven't I thought it was worth bringing up.
    This woman is stopped for no reason at all and given a nazi germany like statement of "i need to know who you are to travel down this road"


    Under arrest for resisting arrest, obstructing justice, and assault a police officer. (apparently if a LEO has pulled you from a vehicle for no lawful reason you are assaulting him....even though YOU are being assaulted)

    Good bye constitution, it was nice knowing you!



    (I was unsure if this would be the right section to post in, but I saw some other stuff that was LEO and not OC centered so I thought this would be okay in General, sorry if it's not!)
    Zum letzten Mal wird Sturmalarm geblasen!
    Zum Kampfe steh'n wir alle schon bereit!
    Bald flattern Hitlerfahnen über alle Straßen.
    Die Knechtschaft dauert nur noch kurze Zeit!

    I'm surprised these cracker cops could even read the titles of the books they were sure are 'illegal.' Book burning is the next step here in the 4th Reich. Let's see, what else can we charge this subject-- who thought she was a citizen, with? Papiere jetzt!!"
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 07-24-2011 at 12:09 PM.
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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I always try to live in an unobtrusive manor. Something the peasants won't notice when they come bearing torches and pitchforks.


    Seriously, though, if I recall, the roadblock business was approved by SCOTUS as being a minimal intrusion compared to government interest--according to their logic, anyway.
    Only for DUI checkpoints. Someday, maybe SCOTUS will get their head out of their ass and call it what it is: a violation of the 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Only for DUI checkpoints. Someday, maybe SCOTUS will get their head out of their ass and call it what it is: a violation of the 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments.
    Nobody caught the joke? (sigh)

    Hey, GS. You're pretty handy with that German. Is there something you're not telling us?

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Makes me sick. And I have personally heard the "obstruction of justice" line for refusing to give police any I.D. when he couldn't state any RAS. The only thing she is guilty of is obstruction of injustice. There was no justice in those officers actions.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Makes me sick. And I have personally heard the "obstruction of justice" line for refusing to give police any I.D. when he couldn't state any RAS. The only thing she is guilty of is obstruction of injustice. There was no justice in those officers actions.
    This makes me sick too.

    As for your quoted material above, I would just like people to remember that the police don't need to state any RAS to you, they only need to articulate it to the courts. Therefore a person must know their states laws, specifically "stop and identify" statutes before they refuse ID. You can ask some questions of the police to try to surmise if they have RAS but you can't know for sure, so refusal is at your own risk. It's probably safer to merely refuse consent but comply. As long as consent if refused it should be legally actionable without added risk to yourself.

    Here in Wisconsin, two of the 5 Culvers OC'ers; whose charges were recently dropped, were initially cited with obstruction for refusal to ID but they knew the laws better than the officers. In Wisconsin there is a law that allows officers to "demand" ID if they have RAS but it has no teeth. There is no penalty for refusal. In other states it differs widely and unfortunately SCOTUS ruled that "stop and identify" statutes that require ID assuming RAS are constitutional.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 07-25-2011 at 10:29 AM.
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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Nobody caught the joke? (sigh)

    Hey, GS. You're pretty handy with that German. Is there something you're not telling us?
    4 Years of it in HS and College--and Goggle, make me quasi-fluent...plus I'm a Kraut by ancestory on both sides of the family.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavageOne View Post
    WOW


    I was unaware that anyone who is told, they need their head caved in or 10 shots put in them, by a LEO had it coming. I watched the video of the incident in Ohio and thought the guy gave an explanation just as feasable as the LEO's, as to why he was where he was. Let's also remember that he was not charged with anything related to prostitution.


    I don't mean it as in he deserved it and the cop was certianly over the line.. I"m just saying that it's likely that he was picking up hookers and got busted.... IE: He put himself in that position. All this lady was doing is driving.

    Of course the canton cop should probably face criminal charges... but as I stated in the other thread, the dumb-dumb driver deserves some of the blame too.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    This makes me sick too.

    As for your quoted material above, I would just like people to remember that the police don't need to state any RAS to you, they only need to articulate it to the courts. Therefore a person must know their states laws, specifically "stop and identify" statutes before they refuse ID. You can ask some questions of the police to try to surmise if they have RAS but you can't know for sure, so refusal is at your own risk. It's probably safer to merely refuse consent but comply. As long as consent if refused it should be legally actionable without added risk to yourself.

    Here in Wisconsin, two of the 5 Culvers OC'ers; whose charges were recently dropped, were initially cited with obstruction for refusal to ID but they knew the laws better than the officers. In Wisconsin there is a law that allows officers to "demand" ID if they have RAS but it has no teeth. There is no penalty for refusal. In other states it differs widely and unfortunately SCOTUS ruled that "stop and identify" statutes that require ID assuming RAS are constitutional.
    I simply disagree, just because there is no law that says cops must does not mean they don't have to give you a reason, this is why all arrests were to be made by warrant at one time, my state now allows it if the offense is committed in the "presence" of the officer, which would make it obvious what you are getting arrested/detained for. My state is not a stop and identify state, and no other state requires you to carry ID "papers". So without RAS the office is getting no cooperation from me. He can haul my ass to jail and identify me there. And then he can deal with the courts for illegal arrest. (unless of course the arrest was valid) but simply being arrested for not providing ID when he can't state RAS is more legal than him arresting you for not giving RAS, people have the rights not government goons.

    By our Blackstone founding the government is only allowed to do something if the powers are granted to it by the people by law. Just because it isn't illegal doesn't make it legal for government and their minions that only applies to its civilians.

    How can we know to resist the unlawful arrest (SCOTUS has determined we have this right) if we do not know what the arrest or detainment is for? It is a complete violation of the 4th in my opinion for cops just to stop you for the sake of identifying you. I will continue to fight for the rights regardless of our governments position on it and the misconstrued way the courts have read the constitution.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I simply disagree, just because there is no law that says cops must does not mean they don't have to give you a reason, this is why all arrests were to be made by warrant at one time, my state now allows it if the offense is committed in the "presence" of the officer, which would make it obvious what you are getting arrested/detained for. My state is not a stop and identify state, and no other state requires you to carry ID "papers". So without RAS the office is getting no cooperation from me. He can haul my ass to jail and identify me there. And then he can deal with the courts for illegal arrest. (unless of course the arrest was valid) but simply being arrested for not providing ID when he can't state RAS is more legal than him arresting you for not giving RAS, people have the rights not government goons.

    By our Blackstone founding the government is only allowed to do something if the powers are granted to it by the people by law. Just because it isn't illegal doesn't make it legal for government and their minions that only applies to its civilians.

    How can we know to resist the unlawful arrest (SCOTUS has determined we have this right) if we do not know what the arrest or detainment is for? It is a complete violation of the 4th in my opinion for cops just to stop you for the sake of identifying you. I will continue to fight for the rights regardless of our governments position on it and the misconstrued way the courts have read the constitution.
    I totally agree with your sentiment however there is no law (that I know of) that says police can lie to you either, but they are legally allowed to do that. What's right and what the courts say are many times two different things.

    In any case I'm only trying to point out the legal jeopardy that one might face if they decided a cop didn't have RAS and refused to comply with a demand for an ID in a "stop and identify" state. I believe that refusing consent is perfectly fine in the situation though and should be just as legally actionable without as much danger to the refuser. Yes, you may have every right to refuse to comply to illegal commands or resist illegal arrest but there are safer ways to end up with the same conclusion.

    Just to give an example; in Wisconsin I know that I may not be LEGALLY arrested for refusal to ID myself therefore; if I'm not actually driving a car, they will get no ID card from me unless they arrest me. In a state with a "stop and identify" statute that has teeth, I will do everything I can to coax the RAS out of the officer but comply with his/her demands while making it clear that I don't consent to them. He or she will later be forced to articulate the suspicion to a court of law. The varying approaches are why it's so important to know the law in the state you are in at the time.

    You are perfectly free to go about it in the way that you outline and I can't fault you for it at all but others should know there are other, less dangerous ways to go about it.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 07-26-2011 at 12:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    I totally agree with your sentiment however there is no law (that I know of) that says police can lie to you either, but they are legally allowed to do that...
    The reason it is legal is the same reason that many of the actions we take are legal: There is no law against it. There need not be a law that allows it.

    However, as long as one remembers that he has the right to a lawyer and to have that lawyer present during questioning, police lying can be completely emasculated by the exercise of that right.

    I don't want the law in this nation changed to where things we are allowed to do are enumerated. I prefer a system whereby we (including LEOs) are free to do anything not explicitly prohibited by law.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The reason it is legal is the same reason that many of the actions we take are legal: There is no law against it. There need not be a law that allows it.

    However, as long as one remembers that he has the right to a lawyer and to have that lawyer present during questioning, police lying can be completely emasculated by the exercise of that right.

    I don't want the law in this nation changed to where things we are allowed to do are enumerated. I prefer a system whereby we (including LEOs) are free to do anything not explicitly prohibited by law.
    I agree but after reading it again I believe SVG's point is that the 4th amendment effectively outlaws the police conduct in the situation outlined in his post (refusal to explain the RAS). Correct me if I'm wrong SVG. That idea, and the caselaw surrounding it, are another discussion in and of themselves. Thinking about it, my previous example of police lying may not be pertinent. Then again; like it or not, caselaw is pretty much law, right or wrong, and working within the system is better to keep one out of harms way, legally speaking.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 07-26-2011 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity about RAS
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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The reason it is legal is the same reason that many of the actions we take are legal: There is no law against it. There need not be a law that allows it.

    However, as long as one remembers that he has the right to a lawyer and to have that lawyer present during questioning, police lying can be completely emasculated by the exercise of that right.

    I don't want the law in this nation changed to where things we are allowed to do are enumerated. I prefer a system whereby we (including LEOs) are free to do anything not explicitly prohibited by law.
    http://blog.austindefense.com/2006/1...investigation/

    Good discussion on cops lying with cites and limitations.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The reason it is legal is the same reason that many of the actions we take are legal: There is no law against it. There need not be a law that allows it.

    However, as long as one remembers that he has the right to a lawyer and to have that lawyer present during questioning, police lying can be completely emasculated by the exercise of that right.

    I don't want the law in this nation changed to where things we are allowed to do are enumerated. I prefer a system whereby we (including LEOs) are free to do anything not explicitly prohibited by law.
    Except that government and it's agents don't have rights, people do. That's a dangerous door that has already been open and abused by "authorities". People are free government are governed by law. Government powers need to be and are supposed to be enumerated otherwise they trample on the peoples freedom. Now "off the clock" cops and other government employees are afforded the same freedom, but not while on our dime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    I agree but after reading it again I believe SVG's point is that the 4th amendment effectively outlaws the police conduct in the situation outlined in his post (refusal to explain the RAS). Correct me if I'm wrong SVG. That idea, and the caselaw surrounding it, are another discussion in and of themselves. Thinking about it, my previous example of police lying may not be pertinent. Then again; like it or not, caselaw is pretty much law, right or wrong, and working within the system is better to keep one out of harms way, legally speaking.
    Yes what you are saying about my point is correct. And to clarify I don't push the violent resisting of false arrest just use it to show the courts said we have the right to do that. I too will peacefully refuse to comply, go to jail, and fight it in court. And encourage everybody to do the same.


    A side point is that I have read several cases where judges have hinted that not giving a reason is dangerous territory, but there simply has been no explicit ruling on it yet. A few cases in Washington and now recently a federal case, where U.S. District Judge Justin Quackenbush expresses concern over the FBI not informing a person for the reason of his arrest.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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