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Thread: El Paso County CCW Permit Oweners not in a datebase

  1. #1
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    El Paso County CCW Permit Oweners not in a datebase

    A few weeks ago during the weekend my girlfriend and I were walking around Manitou Springs (I live in Colorado Springs) and I was stopped by a police officer because my firearm was halfway concealed. I have a CCW permit so I took it out and showed it to him. He didn't have an issue with it however he tried to call it in to make sure that it was valid and he said they couldn't find it in the system. He said he believed I had one because he was holding it in his hands and make a long story short we left without incident.

    That following Monday I called El Paso concealed carry department and told them of the incident and asked why I wasn't in the system. She told me that each Sheriff that issues permits gets to decide if he wants their names in the national database and Terry Maketa has decided he doesn't. So long story short anyone who got their permit in El Paso county does not have their name in a national database.

    While I think this is a good idea I also can see the bad in this. What if I was stopped by some overzealous police officer that decided that my permit was a "fake" and I was arrested? Sure the case would be dropped by a judge; I have no worry about that. I am worried about the loss of time, the arrest, and the embarrassment that comes with all that, which means there would be a law suit if I were ever arrested legally carrying a firearm. Even worse it seems the police, well that one at least was not aware of that law and this worries me, our police are not being properly trained.

    Thoughts, comments??

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    If you're concealing, actually have it concealed. If you're not, then open carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComradeV View Post
    If you're concealing, actually have it concealed. If you're not, then open carry.
    It was a hot day and I was wearing a shirt that kept rising up.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strife1013 View Post
    A few weeks ago during the weekend my girlfriend and I were walking around Manitou Springs (I live in Colorado Springs) and I was stopped by a police officer because my firearm was halfway concealed. I have a CCW permit so I took it out and showed it to him. He didn't have an issue with it however he tried to call it in to make sure that it was valid and he said they couldn't find it in the system. He said he believed I had one because he was holding it in his hands and make a long story short we left without incident.

    That following Monday I called El Paso concealed carry department and told them of the incident and asked why I wasn't in the system. She told me that each Sheriff that issues permits gets to decide if he wants their names in the national database and Terry Maketa has decided he doesn't. So long story short anyone who got their permit in El Paso county does not have their name in a national database.

    While I think this is a good idea I also can see the bad in this. What if I was stopped by some overzealous police officer that decided that my permit was a "fake" and I was arrested? Sure the case would be dropped by a judge; I have no worry about that. I am worried about the loss of time, the arrest, and the embarrassment that comes with all that, which means there would be a law suit if I were ever arrested legally carrying a firearm. Even worse it seems the police, well that one at least was not aware of that law and this worries me, our police are not being properly trained.

    Thoughts, comments??
    In theory, the database has been dismantled. It had a sunset clause that expired on 7-1-11.

    If you were stopped by a truly overzelous cop, it's a simple matter of a phone call to the issuing county to verify.

    Not that you can't be arrested for carrying a valid one.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    There aren't many "over zealous" cops in El Paso County or COS. I wouldn't worry about that. A valid permit is a valid permit. No database is needed and the fact that 100% pro-2A Maketa doesn't have one is just for that reason. You cannot be arrested for unlawful CC with a permit, period. The cop would have to have PC that the permit was a fake. With other picture ID, there is no way for that to happen.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strife1013 View Post
    That following Monday I called El Paso concealed carry department and told them of the incident and asked why I wasn't in the system. She told me that each Sheriff that issues permits gets to decide if he wants their names in the national database and Terry Maketa has decided he doesn't. So long story short anyone who got their permit in El Paso county does not have their name in a national database.
    Actually, Colorado State Law specifically PROHIBITS a sheriff from sharing the CHP information in his county's database. Sheriff Maketa is simply one of the few sheriffs in Colorado who actually follow the law in this respect.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  7. #7
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Pard!
    You wanted your name in a database, really?
    Let's stop for a moment and consider the database in question.
    That database, as I understand it, was the CCIC database.
    Sheriff's around the state would enter their permit holders into that database.
    It is a criminal database. In other words, your name would be listed in there right along with:
    Rapists, murderers, sex offenders and other nefarious miscreants.

    While the notion of being in that database for verification purposes sounds good on the surface, it wasn't.
    It sounded innocent enough until you considered how you were being lumped together with criminals.

    That, in my humble opinion, don't get it.
    My wife works for a law enforcement agency.
    She is getting her CCW soon.
    And I surely do not want her name listed in a criminal database.
    No, she isn't shown to be a criminal, but it is a criminal database nevertheless.

    Ya'll probably didn't know this, but I learned of it awhile back, and I'm all about keeping my name out of that one.

    Guess I should call my county CCW outfit on Monday to see if they are no longer sending CCW info into that database.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 07-24-2011 at 02:41 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Pard!
    You wanted your name in a database, really?
    Let's stop for a moment and consider the database in question.
    That database, as I understand it, was the CSIC database.
    Sheriff's around the state would enter their permit holders into that database.
    It is a criminal database. In other words, your name would be listed in there right along with:
    Rapists, murderers, sex offenders and other nefarious miscreants.

    While the notion of being in that database for verification purposes sounds good on the surface, it wasn't.
    It sounded innocent enough until you considered how you were being lumped together with criminals.

    That, in my humble opinion, don't get it.
    My wife works for a law enforcement agency.
    She is getting her CCW soon.
    And I surely do not want her name listed in a criminal database.
    No, she isn't shown to be a criminal, but it is a criminal database nevertheless.

    Ya'll probably didn't know this, but I learned of it awhile back, and I'm all about keeping my name out of that one.

    Guess I should call my county CCW outfit on Monday to see if they are no longer sending CCW info into that database.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    I don't want my name in any kind of government database. I'm not too worried being stopped with having a valid permit, it's just that cops don't know the laws around here which worries me, but this was one encounter and I can't base one experience applying to everyone. It was a good experience from my stand point. Perhaps I have watched too many you tube clips of cops going completely crazy for no reason.

  9. #9
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strife1013 View Post
    I don't want my name in any kind of government database. I'm not too worried being stopped with having a valid permit, it's just that cops don't know the laws around here which worries me, but this was one encounter and I can't base one experience applying to everyone. It was a good experience from my stand point. Perhaps I have watched too many you tube clips of cops going completely crazy for no reason.
    Howdy Folks!
    Here is a link to information about the CCIC datebase where CCW permit holders was stored.
    Scroll down to find out what sort of information was being placed in that database.
    Address, driver's licence number, social security number, and a whole bunch more!

    http://www.rmgo.org/

    Personally, I don't much hanker to have my name listed right along side of criminals in a criminal database.

    Hopefully, none of us will remain in that database after July 1st. But how do you know unless you contact the issuing agency?

    If any LEO needs to know whether a permit is valid, they can contact the issuing agency. Simple as that.


    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 07-24-2011 at 02:42 PM.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Hopefully, none of us will remain in that database after July 1st. But how do you know unless you contact the issuing agency?
    If you live in El Paso County, you're ok, as Sheriff Maketa abids by the law. If you're elsewhere, simply check the RMGO's list, here.

    If any LEO needs to know whether a permit is valid, they can contact the issuing agency. Simple as that.
    +1. The picture, name and address, and permit number are on the front, and a contact number is on the back. Simply reading off the permit number and being read back the other info should be confirmation enough, particularly when coupled with another government-issued picture ID as required by the C.R.S.

    That reminds me, since I just moved, I need to update my address!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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