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Thread: Herald Tribune - Florida open carriers to walk through Venice on Saturday July 23d

  1. #1
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    Herald Tribune - Florida open carriers to walk through Venice on Saturday July 23d

    http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...NEWS?p=1&tc=pg

    SNIP

    VENICE - Anyone strolling through Centennial Park in Venice on Saturday morning may suddenly be surrounded by scores of people with handguns openly strapped to their waists.

    At 9 a.m., perhaps as many as 100 gun-toting folks will begin marching for about a mile along West Venice Avenue to the beach, ostensibly to fish. But the larger goal in this first-ever demonstration in Florida is to showcase a loophole in Florida's "open carry" prohibition, which has banned the unauthorized display of firearms in public since 1987.

    Under Florida gun statutes, for the past 24 years it has been legal for licensed gun owners to carry a concealed weapon at any time. But it is also legal to carry a weapon openly — and not concealed – while hunting, fishing or camping.

    . . .

    The activists in Venice say they want to educate uninformed gun owners about their Second Amendment rights in Florida, one of only seven U.S. states to ban "open carry" of weapons. A bill to repeal that ban stalled in the last legislative session, but the founder of the Southwest Chapter of the Armed Citizen League says current regulations provide all the cover they need.
    . . .

  2. #2
    Regular Member mach1chris's Avatar
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    Would love to join, but I love way to far from this event. It's funny how open carry was banned in Florida the same year I was born lol!!... It's a shame really.
    False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Love to go, but I don't feel like driving 2 hours one way. Everybody within 30 minutes who can needs to get over there. Check out some of the comments by the mutton. Amerika is doomed. May our chains rest lightly upon us.
    Last edited by 77zach; 07-22-2011 at 04:23 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    As you know, Florida Carry does not endorse this event. It's one thing to OC on the way to fish, while fishing, and on the way back. It falls within the intent of the legislature as written in statute. It is quite another to intentionally park a mile away from the fishing location and parade through downtown to get to that location. It becomes no longer a fishing event, but a protest/demonstration. If that is the intent, it is not necessarily protected under 790.25 but becomes a First Amendment issue, and has been shown by the comments following the article, backlashes with "gun nuts" comments.
    Rich
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    As you know, Florida Carry does not endorse this event. It's one thing to OC on the way to fish, while fishing, and on the way back. It falls within the intent of the legislature as written in statute. It is quite another to intentionally park a mile away from the fishing location and parade through downtown to get to that location. It becomes no longer a fishing event, but a protest/demonstration. If that is the intent, it is not necessarily protected under 790.25 but becomes a First Amendment issue, and has been shown by the comments following the article, backlashes with "gun nuts" comments.
    Does the law say how one is to travel to get to the location? How close must one park to be legal? The devil is in the details, me thinks.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Go FLA Go, Go FLA Go

    Does anybody really think that the Florida legislature can steal constitutional rights, substitute a state permission slip and then call constitutionally protected behaviour a criminal act?

    I equate these daring freedom marchers to the indians at the Boston Tea Party!

    Carry on!!!!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Want to do something about your gun rights?
    PITCH IN, QUIT B*TCHING!
    Yep....

    And from YOUR website,


    In Florida, you can legally open carry a loaded firearm while engaged in, or going to and from, Fishing, Hunting, and Camping. With some planning and preparation, a law abiding person can open carry a firearm in public and stay in compliance with the law.
    Seems to me this group is planning and preparing....What are YOU doing?
    Last edited by xd shooter; 07-22-2011 at 07:25 PM.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Does anybody really think that the Florida legislature can steal constitutional rights, substitute a state permission slip and then call constitutionally protected behaviour a criminal act?
    Makes me want to puke my guts out. What's more, current law runs counter to the Florida constitution as well. You can't have a right and not have a right at the same time and in the same relationship. That's called a contradiction.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Does the law say how one is to travel to get to the location? How close must one park to be legal? The devil is in the details, me thinks.
    Statutes are mum to such details. But we can be certain they will use a strict interpretation and imply 'directly' as they do in other fields.
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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Seems to me this group is planning and preparing....What are YOU doing?
    Well let's see, shall we?

    1. I personally began over a year ago sending e-mails to different local government entities who were violating the preemption statute by having ordinances that regulated firearms. Having received answers that amounted to "sue us", I contacted Rep. Paige Kreegel's office and requested assistance. His office contacted one of the offending counties and got the same response. He had the attorney general, Bill McCollum, contact the county and remind them of preemption. Again, the county ignored the warning. By this time, several months had passed. Rep. Kreegel contacted Marion Hammer to see if she would be interested in a bill giving teeth to the preemption statute for the 2011 legislative session.

    2. About the same time, I was contacted by Sean Caranna, who was trying to draw attention to the lack of general open carry. Sean and I worked together with Ms. Hammer to draft the language to for both HB 45 and SB 234.

    3. In January, Sean and I formed Florida Carry, Inc., a Florida registered non-profit organization dedicated to furthering Floridian's 2nd Amendment rights. Sean and I serve as Co-Executive Directors, we have a board of directors and approximately 3,000 members and supporters. Florida Open Carry is a grassroots movement of Florida Carry.

    4. Florida Carry, Inc. lobbied the Florida Senate and House committees that were hearing testimony on HB 45 and SB 234. During the committee hearings, Florida Carry championed an e-mail, letter, and phone call campaign in support of those bills and was largely responsible for getting those bills passed. HB 45 was signed into law by Governor Scott in June and becomes effective on October 1st. It is this law that is currently causing counties and municipalites statewide to repeal their ordinances that violate state preemption. Unfortunately, SB 234 was gutted at the last minute to exclude general open carry, and became the inadvertant exposure law. Governor Scott signed this into law in June as well.

    5. The Florida Open Carry grassroots movement held the first open carry fishing event in July of 2010. Florida Open Carry has been hosting those events monthly since then, and we are now up to seven locations (Jacksonville, Tampa, Melbourne, Orlando, Fort Myers, Fort Lauderdale, and Daytona) and plan on adding Miami-Dade in the near future. http://www.meetup.com/Florida-Carry/

    6. Sean and I have been on radio and TV in support of 2nd Amendment rights in Florida including Armed American Radio (syndicated nationally) and the Joe Whitehead show (local SW Florida). Sean will be interviewed in the near future by David Codrea on his "War on Guns" show. David Codrea (Examiner.com and Guns Magazine) and Mike Vanderbeough (Sipsey Street Irregulars) were the ones who initially broke the story on the ATF's Fast and Furious scandal before CBS and Fox picked up the story.

    7. Florida Carry's legal team is currently preparing to pursue lawsuits against local governments that have ordinances that violate preemption on behalf of Florida Carry's members and supporters when the law becomes effective on October 1st.

    8. Florida Carry is also teaming up with KnifeRights.org to introduce preemption legislation to protect those CWFL holders who carry blades and other weapons covered by their licenses from local ordinances just like that enjoyed by firearms carriers.

    9. We will also be reintroducing a bill that died in committee last session to grant carry licenses to military members who are overseas and excluded because they don't have a stateside address.

    That good enough for you, Sparky?
    Last edited by Rich7553; 07-23-2011 at 01:04 AM.
    Rich
    MSgt, USAF Ret.
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    www.floridacarry.org
    Glock 23 RTF2
    Mosin Nagant M91/30 (1942 Izhevsk)
    _____________________________________
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    PITCH IN, QUIT B*TCHING!

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Well let's see, shall we?

    1. I personally began over a year ago sending e-mails to different local government entities who were violating the preemption statute by having ordinances that regulated firearms. Having received answers that amounted to "sue us", I contacted Rep. Paige Kreegel's office and requested assistance. His office contacted one of the offending counties and got the same response. He had the attorney general, Bill McCollum, contact the county and remind them of preemption. Again, the county ignored the warning. By this time, several months had passed. Rep. Kreegel contacted Marion Hammer to see if she would be interested in a bill giving teeth to the preemption statute for the 2011 legislative session.

    2. About the same time, I was contacted by Sean Caranna, who was trying to draw attention to the lack of general open carry. Sean and I worked together with Ms. Hammer to draft the language to for both HB 45 and SB 234.

    3. In January, Sean and I formed Florida Carry, Inc., a Florida registered non-profit organization dedicated to furthering Floridian's 2nd Amendment rights. Sean and I serve as Co-Executive Directors, we have a board of directors and approximately 3,000 members and supporters. Florida Open Carry is a grassroots movement of Florida Carry.

    4. Florida Carry, Inc. lobbied the Florida Senate and House committees that were hearing testimony on HB 45 and SB 234. During the committee hearings, Florida Carry championed an e-mail, letter, and phone call campaign in support of those bills and was largely responsible for getting those bills passed. HB 45 was signed into law by Governor Scott in June and becomes effective on October 1st. It is this law that is currently causing counties and municipalites statewide to repeal their ordinances that violate state preemption. Unfortunately, SB 234 was gutted at the last minute to exclude general open carry, and became the inadvertant exposure law. Governor Scott signed this into law in June as well.

    5. The Florida Open Carry grassroots movement held the first open carry fishing event in July of 2010. Florida Open Carry has been hosting those events monthly since then, and we are now up to seven locations (Jacksonville, Tampa, Melbourne, Orlando, Fort Myers, Fort Lauderdale, and Daytona) and plan on adding Miami-Dade in the near future. http://www.meetup.com/Florida-Carry/

    6. Sean and I have been on radio and TV in support of 2nd Amendment rights in Florida including Armed American Radio (syndicated nationally) and the Joe Whitehead show (local SW Florida). Sean will be interviewed in the near future by David Codrea on his "War on Guns" show. David Codrea (Examiner.com and Guns Magazine) and Mike Vanderbeough (Sipsey Street Irregulars) were the ones who initially broke the story on the ATF's Fast and Furious scandal before CBS and Fox picked up the story.

    7. Florida Carry's legal team is currently preparing to pursue lawsuits against local governments that have ordinances that violate preemption on behalf of Florida Carry's members and supporters when the law becomes effective on October 1st.

    8. Florida Carry is also teaming up with KnifeRights.org to introduce preemption legislation to protect those CWFL holders who carry blades and other weapons covered by their licenses from local ordinances just like that enjoyed by firearms carriers.

    9. We will also be reintroducing a bill that died in committee last session to grant carry licenses to military members who are overseas and excluded because they don't have a stateside address.

    That good enough for you, Sparky?
    Nice, really nice! Not only grass roots, but active grass roots!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Does anybody really think that the Florida legislature can steal constitutional rights, substitute a state permission slip and then call constitutionally protected behaviour a criminal act?

    I equate these daring freedom marchers to the indians at the Boston Tea Party!

    Carry on!!!!


    there were indians at the tea party?

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...NEWS?p=1&tc=pg

    SNIP

    VENICE - Anyone strolling through Centennial Park in Venice on Saturday morning may suddenly be surrounded by scores of people with handguns openly strapped to their waists.

    At 9 a.m., perhaps as many as 100 gun-toting folks will begin marching for about a mile along West Venice Avenue to the beach, ostensibly to fish. But the larger goal in this first-ever demonstration in Florida is to showcase a loophole in Florida's "open carry" prohibition, which has banned the unauthorized display of firearms in public since 1987.

    Under Florida gun statutes, for the past 24 years it has been legal for licensed gun owners to carry a concealed weapon at any time. But it is also legal to carry a weapon openly — and not concealed – while hunting, fishing or camping.

    . . .

    The activists in Venice say they want to educate uninformed gun owners about their Second Amendment rights in Florida, one of only seven U.S. states to ban "open carry" of weapons. A bill to repeal that ban stalled in the last legislative session, but the founder of the Southwest Chapter of the Armed Citizen League says current regulations provide all the cover they need.
    . . .



    haha this was funny-

    Police Chief Tom McNulty said he was unfamiliar with the statute before being approached by Traub.

    "The law is written in a way that it's very vague," said McNulty. "But we don't want to do anything that would trample people's rights.


    how can he enforce the law if he doesn't KNOW the law???

    crazy
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmodel65 View Post
    there were indians at the tea party?
    Yep, sure were........I saw them first hand.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Well let's see, shall we?

    1. I personally began over a year ago sending e-mails to different local government entities who were violating the preemption statute by having ordinances that regulated firearms. Having received answers that amounted to "sue us", I contacted Rep. Paige Kreegel's office and requested assistance. His office contacted one of the offending counties and got the same response. He had the attorney general, Bill McCollum, contact the county and remind them of preemption. Again, the county ignored the warning. By this time, several months had passed. Rep. Kreegel contacted Marion Hammer to see if she would be interested in a bill giving teeth to the preemption statute for the 2011 legislative session.

    2. About the same time, I was contacted by Sean Caranna, who was trying to draw attention to the lack of general open carry. Sean and I worked together with Ms. Hammer to draft the language to for both HB 45 and SB 234.

    3. In January, Sean and I formed Florida Carry, Inc., a Florida registered non-profit organization dedicated to furthering Floridian's 2nd Amendment rights. Sean and I serve as Co-Executive Directors, we have a board of directors and approximately 3,000 members and supporters. Florida Open Carry is a grassroots movement of Florida Carry.

    4. Florida Carry, Inc. lobbied the Florida Senate and House committees that were hearing testimony on HB 45 and SB 234. During the committee hearings, Florida Carry championed an e-mail, letter, and phone call campaign in support of those bills and was largely responsible for getting those bills passed. HB 45 was signed into law by Governor Scott in June and becomes effective on October 1st. It is this law that is currently causing counties and municipalites statewide to repeal their ordinances that violate state preemption. Unfortunately, SB 234 was gutted at the last minute to exclude general open carry, and became the inadvertant exposure law. Governor Scott signed this into law in June as well.

    5. The Florida Open Carry grassroots movement held the first open carry fishing event in July of 2010. Florida Open Carry has been hosting those events monthly since then, and we are now up to seven locations (Jacksonville, Tampa, Melbourne, Orlando, Fort Myers, Fort Lauderdale, and Daytona) and plan on adding Miami-Dade in the near future. http://www.meetup.com/Florida-Carry/

    6. Sean and I have been on radio and TV in support of 2nd Amendment rights in Florida including Armed American Radio (syndicated nationally) and the Joe Whitehead show (local SW Florida). Sean will be interviewed in the near future by David Codrea on his "War on Guns" show. David Codrea (Examiner.com and Guns Magazine) and Mike Vanderbeough (Sipsey Street Irregulars) were the ones who initially broke the story on the ATF's Fast and Furious scandal before CBS and Fox picked up the story.

    7. Florida Carry's legal team is currently preparing to pursue lawsuits against local governments that have ordinances that violate preemption on behalf of Florida Carry's members and supporters when the law becomes effective on October 1st.

    8. Florida Carry is also teaming up with KnifeRights.org to introduce preemption legislation to protect those CWFL holders who carry blades and other weapons covered by their licenses from local ordinances just like that enjoyed by firearms carriers.

    9. We will also be reintroducing a bill that died in committee last session to grant carry licenses to military members who are overseas and excluded because they don't have a stateside address.

    That good enough for you, Sparky?
    No actually it isn't. The original question was in the context of gun rights, which Florida Open Carry promotes, and not Perks for Permittees (P4P) which FLorida Carry seems hellbent on increasing. There is a BIG difference, Sport.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  16. #16
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    No actually it isn't. The original question was in the context of gun rights, which Florida Open Carry promotes, and not Perks for Permittees (P4P) which FLorida Carry seems hellbent on increasing. There is a BIG difference, Sport.
    Florida Open Carry is a grassroots movement of Florida Carry. We are the same people. The group that held the event in Venice is unrelated to either FOC or FC, and has been completely unknown until this event.

    I find it interesting that someone from Virginia would be attacking an organization working on rights in Florida. Smells like a troll to me.
    Last edited by Rich7553; 07-23-2011 at 01:48 PM.
    Rich
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    www.floridacarry.org
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    Mosin Nagant M91/30 (1942 Izhevsk)
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    No actually it isn't. The original question was in the context of gun rights, which Florida Open Carry promotes, and not Perks for Permittees (P4P) which FLorida Carry seems hellbent on increasing. There is a BIG difference, Sport.
    Do you have any magic bullets, Thundar? NJ and NY infest the southern portion of the state and the interior is strongly neocon. They're content with their 10 million pistols living in the glovebox or the house.
    Last edited by 77zach; 07-23-2011 at 02:02 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    In the words of our Founding Fathers... "Lead, follow, or get out of the way."

    Nothing happened in Florida for 24 years until I took people for an Open Carry Fishing trip just over a year ago. Six months later, we were second only to the NRA in Florida membership and came within a heartbeat of legalizing licensed OC. We tried unlicensed but there was no way that would have even come close to passing in the Florida Legislature. The courts are still not quite ripe here for a legal challenge to the OC ban, but they are getting closer and we are fully prepared with a case when the time is right.

    If you can come down here and do a better job than our entire team, multiple senior pro-OC state legislators, the entire grassroots network of thousands of activist that we have built in only a year, and me personally. I'd welcome the progress.

  19. #19
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Well let's see, shall we?

    1. I personally began over a year ago sending e-mails to different local government entities who were violating the preemption statute by having ordinances that regulated firearms. Having received answers that amounted to "sue us", I contacted Rep. Paige Kreegel's office and requested assistance. His office contacted one of the offending counties and got the same response. He had the attorney general, Bill McCollum, contact the county and remind them of preemption. Again, the county ignored the warning. By this time, several months had passed. Rep. Kreegel contacted Marion Hammer to see if she would be interested in a bill giving teeth to the preemption statute for the 2011 legislative session.

    2. About the same time, I was contacted by Sean Caranna, who was trying to draw attention to the lack of general open carry. Sean and I worked together with Ms. Hammer to draft the language to for both HB 45 and SB 234.

    3. In January, Sean and I formed Florida Carry, Inc., a Florida registered non-profit organization dedicated to furthering Floridian's 2nd Amendment rights. Sean and I serve as Co-Executive Directors, we have a board of directors and approximately 3,000 members and supporters. Florida Open Carry is a grassroots movement of Florida Carry.

    4. Florida Carry, Inc. lobbied the Florida Senate and House committees that were hearing testimony on HB 45 and SB 234. During the committee hearings, Florida Carry championed an e-mail, letter, and phone call campaign in support of those bills and was largely responsible for getting those bills passed. HB 45 was signed into law by Governor Scott in June and becomes effective on October 1st. It is this law that is currently causing counties and municipalites statewide to repeal their ordinances that violate state preemption. Unfortunately, SB 234 was gutted at the last minute to exclude general open carry, and became the inadvertant exposure law. Governor Scott signed this into law in June as well.

    5. The Florida Open Carry grassroots movement held the first open carry fishing event in July of 2010. Florida Open Carry has been hosting those events monthly since then, and we are now up to seven locations (Jacksonville, Tampa, Melbourne, Orlando, Fort Myers, Fort Lauderdale, and Daytona) and plan on adding Miami-Dade in the near future. http://www.meetup.com/Florida-Carry/

    6. Sean and I have been on radio and TV in support of 2nd Amendment rights in Florida including Armed American Radio (syndicated nationally) and the Joe Whitehead show (local SW Florida). Sean will be interviewed in the near future by David Codrea on his "War on Guns" show. David Codrea (Examiner.com and Guns Magazine) and Mike Vanderbeough (Sipsey Street Irregulars) were the ones who initially broke the story on the ATF's Fast and Furious scandal before CBS and Fox picked up the story.

    7. Florida Carry's legal team is currently preparing to pursue lawsuits against local governments that have ordinances that violate preemption on behalf of Florida Carry's members and supporters when the law becomes effective on October 1st.

    8. Florida Carry is also teaming up with KnifeRights.org to introduce preemption legislation to protect those CWFL holders who carry blades and other weapons covered by their licenses from local ordinances just like that enjoyed by firearms carriers.

    9. We will also be reintroducing a bill that died in committee last session to grant carry licenses to military members who are overseas and excluded because they don't have a stateside address.

    That good enough for you, Sparky?


    I think you should get more populated locations to OC fish...the one I went to, about 10 people passed us in an hour and a half....not really spreading the word..
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  20. #20
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    I think you should get more populated locations to OC fish...the one I went to, about 10 people passed us in an hour and a half....not really spreading the word..
    We're also planning on setting up a table at the gun shows. Don't forget, Florida Carry is less than a year old and comprises an all-volunteer board. Unfortunately, life sometimes gets in the way when you'd rather be doing things you like.
    Rich
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    www.floridacarry.org
    Glock 23 RTF2
    Mosin Nagant M91/30 (1942 Izhevsk)
    _____________________________________
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    PITCH IN, QUIT B*TCHING!

  21. #21
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    We're also planning on setting up a table at the gun shows. Don't forget, Florida Carry is less than a year old and comprises an all-volunteer board. Unfortunately, life sometimes gets in the way when you'd rather be doing things you like.


    haha- yes, you are right. if you do the gun show in palmetto, i could help out those 2 days.
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  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    This is my exchange with the organizer of this event today on facebook. This skirting of the legislature's intent in 790.25 does not sit well in Tallahassee. Well no wonder. These people don't want to fix Florida's open carry ban. They just want to be provocateurs and get in the paper.

    Read for yourself...

    Ethan Traub
    http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...through-Venice
    Anyone strolling through Centennial Park in Venice on Saturday morning may suddenly be surrounded by scores of people with handguns openly strapped to their waists.


    Sean Caranna
    And now I'm having to clean up the mess you made.
    There will be no open carry bill in the legislature (due to sponsor concerns over this event) next year unless I can do some extreme damage control to undo your mess.


    Ethan Traub
    So what. Florida's OC law is fine. Just work with what we have. In my research I didn't find any OC bills that made it through committees.


    Sean Caranna
    learn to do research better. See SB234 OC died on the floor after all six committees.


    Ethan Traub
    Stop wasting your time trying for new bills. This isn't the last OC event that I organize. We will be moving around a couple of counties. Today we had over 40 people with us. Next time I expect double! So much for needing credentials or and incorporation to get things done. I am also in the process of getting some local gun related ordinances removed or revised.


    Ethan Traub
    Another thing that I can't seem to find is the "Intent of the Law" book that all of you anti gun people claim spells out the law different than the statute. Do I need to learn "to do research better"?
    Damage Control is in progress. These people are provocateurs, do not want change to Florida's OC ban and do not represent the Florida Open Carry Movement and Florida Carry
    Last edited by StogieC; 07-23-2011 at 05:18 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Congratulations Ethan Traub and Todd von Bender. As organizers of the Venice "IN YOUR FACE" event, in just a couple of hours, you have undone at least a year's worth of work at softening the legislature to the idea of general open carry. Thanks to YOU, the sponsor of the expansion of OC rights bill we had planned on introducing in the next session has expressed severe reservations after the phones lit up in Tallahassee with concerns from citizens over your stunt.

    Several months ago, we warned you about the potential backlash that could occur if you attempted to stretch beyond the intent of the "going to/while/coming from fishing" to the open carry prohibition in Florida law. We told you what happened in 1987, when a couple of "IN YOUR FACE" activists pushed open carry too far in Miami-Dade, despite it being legal. The legislature responded to the public outcry by convening an emergency session to prohibit open carry. But you didn't listen, did you?

    You stood on the simple premise of "legality" without any consideration for the reality of "politics". You completely disregarded the simple fact that gun carriers comprise only a portion of Floridians, and much of the population is from notoriously gun-unfriendly states. This puts any pro-gun effort at a immediate disadvantage. Your efforts have done nothing but inflame the gun-haters and reinforce the stereotype of "gun nuts".

    Your event was little more than a publicity stunt aimed at gathering attention, perhaps for Mr. von Bender's business. Well, you've certainly done that. By your own admission, you state that "Florida's open carry law is fine." Let's just hope the legislature doesn't act to remove that very exemption. The worst part is that you've intentionally mislead a group of people to participate in this fiasco. You have done the law-abiding gun carriers of Florida a disservice and you've put a blight on the concept of RESPONSIBLE gun owners who don't abuse the word and intent of statute.

    You obviously have no understanding of the difference between freedom and liberty. Freedom is doing what you want. Liberty is the responsible exercise thereof.
    Last edited by Rich7553; 07-23-2011 at 06:00 PM.
    Rich
    MSgt, USAF Ret.
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    Florida Carry, Inc.
    www.floridacarry.org
    Glock 23 RTF2
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  24. #24
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    This is my exchange with the organizer of this event today on facebook. This skirting of the legislature's intent in 790.25 does not sit well in Tallahassee. Well no wonder. These people don't want to fix Florida's open carry ban. They just want to be provocateurs and get in the paper.

    Read for yourself...



    Damage Control is in progress. These people are provocateurs, do not want change to Florida's OC ban and do not represent the Florida Open Carry Movement and Florida Carry
    Why would he say Fl's OC ban is "fine" if he wasn't a provocateur?

    Still, I'm a little torn though; if we can restore some of our rights in a timely manner by not demonstrating as these people in Venice, then I agree with you. Then on the other hand, I feel like you're saying Rosa Parks was bad because she should have talked to her legislator instead of sitting at the front of the bus. The legislature has denied us a fundamental freedom enjoyed in 80% of the nation and I'm pissed. Also, I'm not sure what the intent of the legislature was in 790.25. They could have limited OC to the property where the exceptional activity was taking place, but they did not.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  25. #25
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Thanks to YOU, the sponsor of our expansion of OC rights bill we had planned on introducing in the next session has backed out after the phones lit up in Tallahassee with protests from citizens over your stunt.
    A real Patrick Henry that sponsor is! Goodness, maybe ixtow is right about Fl.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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