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Thread: Frustrating encounter

  1. #1
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    Frustrating encounter

    Today I went to the Mc Cracken county courthouse on some business. They have an unlawful judicial order barring weapons from the courthouse and subjecting people to searches when they enter the courthouse, and so I left my weapon in the car while I took care of the business that I had there. However, I always go in with my empty holster on my side. I've done this many times with no problems, but today Deputy Fields decided to make it a problem.

    As I walk into the building and through the metal detector:

    Deputy Fields: Are you armed?
    Me: No, but if I was it wouldn't be illegal.
    Deputy Fields: Yes, it is illegal! Maybe you should read up on the law!
    Me: I have! Maybe you should read the Attorney General Opinions!
    Deputy Fields: If you come in here with a weapon I will arrest you!

    So now my blood is boiling and not just from the heat. I go attend to my affairs and come back down:

    Me: What's your name and badge number?
    Deputy Fields: Fields and it's 70. Do you want to speak to the sheriff right now.
    Me: Sure. Why not?

    After waiting a while I talk to Sheriff Hayden:

    Me: The reason I wanted to talk to you is to let you know that you should better inform your deputies of the law. Currently there is an unlawful judicial order by Judge Sanderson barring weapons from the courthouse, but it is perfectly legal for me to carry my firearm in here.

    Sheriff Hayden: There is an order barring weapons from the courthouse and it is illegal.

    Me: I'm not here to discuss the order with you, but it is not illegal for me to bring a firearm in here.

    Sheriff Hayden: Do you want to read a copy of the order?!

    Me: I have already, and if you reread the order you'll see that it says persons coming in with a firearm or ammunition are to be told to put it away before being allowed in. If I were to come in here with a firearm the order says you're supposed to have me put it away.

    Sheriff Hayden: I'm telling you that if you come in here with a firearm you will be arrested!

    Me: And I'm telling you that if I come in here with a firearm and you arrest me you will find yourself in a lawsuit and I will come out on top!

    Sheriff Hayden: The county attorney says it's illegal and until he says otherwise if you come in here with a firearm you will be arrested! I will regard what he says about it and not you!

    Me: Maybe you should ask the county attorney about the legalities involved here!

    After that it's a complete blur. I'm not extremely good at keeping my cool in such situations, but I'm working on it. I probably raised my voice more than I should have, and said more than I should have, but oh well.

    Now I find myself in a curious situation. I've written the Judge about this order and she blew me off. Now I'm being threatened with arrest for obeying the law. I'm strongly considering pressing the issue by getting arrested, because I can see no other way to get this crap changed. However, I would want to discuss such things with a lawyer first, and perhaps find one that would work probono or something to resolve the issue. I'm not in it to make money so as long as my costs are covered they could keep whatever else they get out of it. I'm just extremely frustrated and angry about all of this! Being hassled over a empty holster... Damn.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    Today I went to the Mc Cracken county courthouse on some business. They have an unlawful judicial order barring weapons from the courthouse and subjecting people to searches when they enter the courthouse, and so I left my weapon in the car while I took care of the business that I had there. However, I always go in with my empty holster on my side. I've done this many times with no problems, but today Deputy Fields decided to make it a problem.

    As I walk into the building and through the metal detector:

    Deputy Fields: Are you armed?
    Me: No, but if I was it wouldn't be illegal.
    Deputy Fields: Yes, it is illegal! Maybe you should read up on the law!
    Me: I have! Maybe you should read the Attorney General Opinions!
    Deputy Fields: If you come in here with a weapon I will arrest you!

    So now my blood is boiling and not just from the heat. I go attend to my affairs and come back down:

    Me: What's your name and badge number?
    Deputy Fields: Fields and it's 70. Do you want to speak to the sheriff right now.
    Me: Sure. Why not?

    After waiting a while I talk to Sheriff Hayden:

    Me: The reason I wanted to talk to you is to let you know that you should better inform your deputies of the law. Currently there is an unlawful judicial order by Judge Sanderson barring weapons from the courthouse, but it is perfectly legal for me to carry my firearm in here.

    Sheriff Hayden: There is an order barring weapons from the courthouse and it is illegal.

    Me: I'm not here to discuss the order with you, but it is not illegal for me to bring a firearm in here.

    Sheriff Hayden: Do you want to read a copy of the order?!

    Me: I have already, and if you reread the order you'll see that it says persons coming in with a firearm or ammunition are to be told to put it away before being allowed in. If I were to come in here with a firearm the order says you're supposed to have me put it away.

    Sheriff Hayden: I'm telling you that if you come in here with a firearm you will be arrested!

    Me: And I'm telling you that if I come in here with a firearm and you arrest me you will find yourself in a lawsuit and I will come out on top!

    Sheriff Hayden: The county attorney says it's illegal and until he says otherwise if you come in here with a firearm you will be arrested! I will regard what he says about it and not you!

    Me: Maybe you should ask the county attorney about the legalities involved here!

    After that it's a complete blur. I'm not extremely good at keeping my cool in such situations, but I'm working on it. I probably raised my voice more than I should have, and said more than I should have, but oh well.

    Now I find myself in a curious situation. I've written the Judge about this order and she blew me off. Now I'm being threatened with arrest for obeying the law. I'm strongly considering pressing the issue by getting arrested, because I can see no other way to get this crap changed. However, I would want to discuss such things with a lawyer first, and perhaps find one that would work probono or something to resolve the issue. I'm not in it to make money so as long as my costs are covered they could keep whatever else they get out of it. I'm just extremely frustrated and angry about all of this! Being hassled over a empty holster... Damn.
    Does the courthouse have a state office other than those involved in court proceedings? By that I mean curcuit and district clerks, courtrooms, judges chambers, drivers licensing and I would question if the sheriffs office qualified or not.

    If not, you cant take your firearm in.

    This is to the best of my knowledge, gutshot will clarify if im mistaken.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Have you contacted your state representative about this issue at all. Sometimes they have more influence in matters like these. I would recommend starting there. Good luck.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  4. #4
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    The courthouse isn't solely occupied by the court of justice. The county clerk is in the courthouse, and the Sheriff's department isn't part of the Court of Justice.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  5. #5
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    Checked and replied.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  6. #6
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    If a lawyer even remotely knows of kentucky gun laws then they would be a fool not to take ur case on commission. Have you sent copies of the attorney general opinions to this judge? Have u threatened to sue thejudge and county to have krs 65.870 enforced? It couldn't be more obvious, there ban is agains the law. The next time elections roll around I would do everything I could to let people how anti-rights this judge is, and let her know of those intentions. Tell her she needs to remember just what state she is in..... This stuff really pi**es me off, if it wasn't a day long drive I'd be tempted to drive down and carry with you, McCracken county is pathetic when it comes to elected officials. Please keep us updated....

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Where does this stand currently?

  8. #8
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    Taylor Co also has metal detectors and 2 sheriff deputy at the front entrance, to the new judicial building. Which houses the court room, county clerk, and a few other things. I assumed it was perfectly legal for them to do this.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyboy4u View Post
    Taylor Co also has metal detectors and 2 sheriff deputy at the front entrance, to the new judicial building. Which houses the court room, county clerk, and a few other things. I assumed it was perfectly legal for them to do this.
    Are you sure that is not the Circuit Court Clerk?

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