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Thread: 80 killed in Norway shooting

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    80 killed in Norway shooting

    This is an absolute horrible tragedy for Norway and my thoughts are with them. A lone gunman killed 80 people at a camp and wounded numerous others. The suspect who is in custody is also suspected to be behind an explosion that killed 7. Like I said, it is a completely horrific event. Unfortunately, I can't help but wonder what might have happened if at least one person had been armed, ready to defend themselves.

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    Do they have gun control in Norway? Liberal mentality? This is horrible. I fear this may be coming here also. My heart and prayers go out to the victims and the Country.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    This is indeed a tragedy, but it began a long time ago: Only sheeple allow government to pull their teeth.

    It's not so much whether or not they're liberal, Cisco. Rather, it's that they've allowed their civil and military arms to take supplant the basic responsibility of all mankind to protect their own.
    Last edited by since9; 07-23-2011 at 02:11 AM.
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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    I just talked to a friend of mine who lives there. New numbers, 84 dead kids and they are expecting more, searching the waters around the island. What a sad day for them .
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    Hmmm....The last article I read on the subject said that a total of 80 people died in BOTH the bombing and the shooting. At that time, 10 died as the result of the shooting spree.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    News story from AP on FoxNews says 84 on the island and 91 overall.

    You can't really make sense of this until a lot more about the gunman comes out. Even then, it may not make a lot of sense to most folks.

    Sad part is that the dead on the island were largely, as I understand it, young people. I cannot even begin to imagine the grief in their homes.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Do they have gun control in Norway? Liberal mentality? This is horrible. I fear this may be coming here also. My heart and prayers go out to the victims and the Country.
    Norway is fairly strict on firearms. Relatively easy for a citizen to get a rifle or shotgun for hunting, but pretty strict storage laws with every firearm registered. Handguns are quite strictly regulated. Typical European attitude.

    There is a quite strong hunting tradition there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    SNIP There is a quite strong hunting tradition there.
    Were their ancestors not Vikings? I wonder where the toughness went.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Death toll now at 85 on island, 92 overall according to USA Today online.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 07-23-2011 at 01:17 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Sounds like the youth-camp was one big 'gun-free' zone!

    Much will be made in the media about how the killer (since captured alive apparently) was a legal-gun owner.

    Sadly, few in the media will point out about how we was also an illegal car-bomb owner.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Only a 45 min response time....

    Yes good thing they don't allow people to have guns, somone could get hurt. It is a good thing the police will be right there to protect you in the event someone doesn't follow the law. You might have to wait 45 MINUTES...but you can duck and dodge the bullets. Just keep moving.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Also, another interesting point is that Norway has NO provisions in their laws for citizens to carry--open carry or concealed--for ANY reason, unless you are a cop or security guard...

    You can own handguns--up to 4 if you are a collector--but you must be a member of a shooting club, or a competitive shooter (like IPSC). And you can't have more than one handgun of the same caliber.

    For people who aren't collectors or competitors, it's pretty much limited to one handgun for ownership, but you can also own a rifle and a shotgun, and there is no limit on the number of magazines you can own, or magazine capacity.

    This guy supposedly walked around this island for an hour and a half, shooting people. It does make you wonder how things may have turned out differently if a few of the people at this camp had been armed.

    I know that any time I go to camping events I've ALWAYS got something in my car, and usually it's not far from me when I'm in camp...
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    Sounds like the youth-camp was one big 'gun-free' zone!

    Much will be made in the media about how the killer (since captured alive apparently) was a legal-gun owner.

    Sadly, few in the media will point out about how we was also an illegal car-bomb owner.

    Not to mention that he was illegally impersonating a police officer...

    One thing about the car bomb that I found odd--from the photographs and video I've sent, the car appears to have been in front of the big government building, but the building across the street, which was only about 6 stories tall, has MASSIVE fires burning on the top 2 floors in one corner. How does a car bomb start massive fires on the top floors of a 6 story building on the other side of the street?

    And it doesn't appear to have been a panel van or large moving truck--the video that show the mangled chassis appear to be of a relatively small CAR. It should be VERY interesting to see how they explain how he got a 6-ton fertilizer bomb into a sedan.

    Perhaps that building with the fires had a "7" in it's address...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-23-2011 at 02:34 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    The news of this really choked me up. As I father, all I could imagine was the parents getting the phone call to notify them of their kids being killed. That and the mental image of these poor kids trying to swim away while being shot at. Jesus...

    I really feel a deep sorrow for everyone involved from the victims and their families to the responders that helped with the aftermath.

    This incident (like many others) got me thinking again about an individual's obligation of carry. If you carry, you are obligated to carry as close to 100% of the time if possible. You just might be at the wrong place at the wrong time but your involvement could possibly save a lot of lives. And let me tell you: If you saved my kid's lives you would then become a permanent family member whether you like it or not.

    I don't know if Norway allows it's citizens to carry open/concealed (I'll have to ask my neighbors wife, who's from Oslo). If not, I would hope that this is something they will consider in the future. An hour and a half is a looooong time to have someone shooting at you with no options available. As with all acts of terrorism, what a despicable, cowardly, and horrible act.
    Minds are like parachutes. Just because you lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    News story from AP on FoxNews says 84 on the island and 91 overall.

    You can't really make sense of this until a lot more about the gunman comes out. Even then, it may not make a lot of sense to most folks.

    Sad part is that the dead on the island were largely, as I understand it, young people. I cannot even begin to imagine the grief in their homes.
    The latest Fox article says that he made several "right wing" posts on the Internet, and then they speculated whether he was a neo-Nazi.

    How about they report on what he wrote, the fact of his new-Naziism (or nothing if he was not a neo-Nazi), and let us draw conclusions? Fox is usually pretty good about "We report, you decide," but this is a clear case of "We decided, so we reported." For all we know, he could be a left wing nut. Although, if one is a nut, he isn't rational enough to be left wing, let alone right.

    Anyway, I guess my point is that I am sick of folks associating "right wing" with "Nazi."

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    Sorry about the double post. I intended to add the following to my previous post with an edit. The "Save" button did not work on my iPad.

    {On edit: Oh, and carry is not the problem here (as the press will surely portray it). It is the solution. One armed person among the intended victims could have saved dozens of lives.}

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    Regular Member Lord_Kalen's Avatar
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    from what Ive read elsewhere he's a "Conservitive nationalist" not a Racialist/Ethno-Nationalist

    More the Micheal Savage type .

    This is supposably his ,
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384

    The video at the end shows him with a Ruger Mini 14 or 30 , with a 30 round mag and a riduclous amount of "tacticool" crap on it

    You can run this through google translate aswell
    http://www.document.no/anders-behring-breivik/

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    From what I read the attacker didn't like the progressive prime minister (the bomb was set at his office) and he attacked the kids camp because it was a camp for children of progressives.

    I strongly condemn everything this man did!

    On another thread I mentioned what will happen if a conservative-right-wing person cracks and does something like this and how the government is itching to crack down on that group. I didn't consider that someone cracking (not saying he did in this case) in another country could also cause the same attention from OUR government. So I would look for Janet to start working towards her goals using this event as a justification.

    IMHO, there is a special place in HELL for people that harm children!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Kabukiman N.Y.P.D. View Post
    The news of this really choked me up. As I father, all I could imagine was the parents getting the phone call to notify them of their kids being killed. That and the mental image of these poor kids trying to swim away while being shot at. Jesus...

    I really feel a deep sorrow for everyone involved from the victims and their families to the responders that helped with the aftermath.

    This incident (like many others) got me thinking again about an individual's obligation of carry. If you carry, you are obligated to carry as close to 100% of the time if possible. You just might be at the wrong place at the wrong time but your involvement could possibly save a lot of lives. And let me tell you: If you saved my kid's lives you would then become a permanent family member whether you like it or not.

    I don't know if Norway allows it's citizens to carry open/concealed (I'll have to ask my neighbors wife, who's from Oslo). If not, I would hope that this is something they will consider in the future. An hour and a half is a looooong time to have someone shooting at you with no options available. As with all acts of terrorism, what a despicable, cowardly, and horrible act.
    Huh!?! What?!?! No offense, but it just makes sense that a government agent would turn a basic human right into an obligation. An obligation to save a lot of lives, including presumably, the lives of other adults who refused to carry. (Jeff Snyder, in A Nation of Cowards, briefly addresses the immorality of demanding that others risk their lives to protect you.)

    So, now, according to this government agent, we have to carry 100% of the time--its an obligation! Not when we choose, not when we evaluate the risks. When the government says so.

    Isn't it just like government to tell you what to do, folks?

    Sheesh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Huh!?! What?!?! No offense, but it just makes sense that a government agent would turn a basic human right into an obligation. An obligation to save a lot of lives, including presumably, the lives of other adults who refused to carry. (Jeff Snyder, in A Nation of Cowards, briefly addresses the immorality of demanding that others risk their lives to protect you.)

    So, now, according to this government agent, we have to carry 100% of the time--its an obligation! Not when we choose, not when we evaluate the risks. When the government says so.

    Isn't it just like government to tell you what to do, folks?

    Sheesh.
    No government agent here. My name was pulled from a really bad movie title and is meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

    Respectfully, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. I am completely against anyone making my choices for me or someone else. I was merely trying to convey simply: when you leave your house in the morning, make sure you have your gun with you if possible. I appologise if my post seemed confusing.
    Minds are like parachutes. Just because you lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine...

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Kabukiman N.Y.P.D. View Post
    No government agent here. My name was pulled from a really bad movie title and is meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

    Respectfully, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. I am completely against anyone making my choices for me or someone else. I was merely trying to convey simply: when you leave your house in the morning, make sure you have your gun with you if possible. I appologise if my post seemed confusing.
    That movie looks awesome.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117609/?mode=desktop

    Back on point, I understand what you are saying about carrying wherever and whenever possible. However, the only obligation I feel is to protect myself and my family. If the situation arose, I see myself helping others but I do not feel obligated to do so.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    That movie looks awesome.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117609/?mode=desktop

    Back on point, I understand what you are saying about carrying wherever and whenever possible. However, the only obligation I feel is to protect myself and my family. If the situation arose, I see myself helping others but I do not feel obligated to do so.
    Yeah, it's a pretty ridiculous film.

    As to your comment on obligation, I completly understand. An individual's level of "obligation" is a personal thing and highly subjective to the situation. I just know that if I were on that island seeing unarmed kids being gunned down, I as an armed citizen would feel obligated to help if possible.
    Minds are like parachutes. Just because you lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Kabukiman N.Y.P.D. View Post
    No government agent here. My name was pulled from a really bad movie title and is meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

    Respectfully, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. I am completely against anyone making my choices for me or someone else. I was merely trying to convey simply: when you leave your house in the morning, make sure you have your gun with you if possible. I appologise if my post seemed confusing.
    Thanks for clearing up the post and username.

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    Just heard a radio news report focusing almost entirely on the bullets used. Quotes from a doctor saying horrible damage. Bullets that explode or fragment.

    Somebody should look into whether this guy or his group received support from the UN. Its a little coincidental that the draconian UN treaty to reduce civilian arms was in the news cycle recently.

    Even without a UN connection to the shooting, I bet we hear more about the treaty. And, international (meaning a select few elites with an agenda) condemnation of hollow points.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Do they have gun control in Norway? Liberal mentality? This is horrible. I fear this may be coming here also. My heart and prayers go out to the victims and the Country.
    Welcome to OC.

    http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011...ael-philosophy

    "Norway killer espoused new right-wing, pro-Israel philosophy

    July 24, 2011
    BERLIN (JTA) -- The confessed perpetrator in the terror attack in Norway espoused a new right-wing philosophy allied with Israel against Islam - a trend in European populist and far-right movements that has Israel worried.
    In numerous online postings, including a manifesto published on the day of the attacks, Anders Behring Breivik pushed the "Vienna School" or “Crusader Nationalism” philosophy, a mish-mash of anti-modern principles that also calls for "the deportation of all Muslims from Europe" as well as from "the West Bank and the Gaza Strip."
    According to the manifesto, entitled "2083: A European Declaration of Independence" and published under the pseudonym Andrew Berwick, the "Vienna School" supports "pro-Zionism/Israeli nationalism.""


    Damn Liberals huh? He is a textbook Right-winger.

    This is a tragedy. Apparently the POS was dressed to look like an LEO.

    Apparently the POS is a right-wing Fundamentalist Christian who does not like Muslims, and who is for lower taxes. Sound like anybody here in the states?

    Damn people, read, read, read. I know it strains the eyes, but it's good for your brains.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/wo...me&ref=general
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/wo...europe.html?hp

    I say put her up. She seems to be good for the far right...and America, apparently:

    http://truthfrequencynews.com/?p=6825
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 07-24-2011 at 07:16 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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