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Thread: Sudden Impact!

  1. #1
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Sudden Impact!

    Howdy Folks!
    I worked late last night and came home a different route. There is a new(ish) Walmart at Tower Road and Salida that I thought was off limits because of being in Denver territory. I was pleased to learn that it is in Aurora after all, so decided I'd stop in to get some victuals.

    This store is huge, BTW, and was crowded with Friday night shoppers. I picked up a DVD, some fresh fruit for the wifey and me, and headed toward the checkout. My Ruger P94 was holstered on my hip in the cross draw position as I stood in line waiting for a shot (pardon the pun) at the self serve checkout station. When my turn rolled around, I scanned my goodies and bagged them up. After paying for my groceries, I loaded them back into the shopping cart for the trip to my car.

    I was headed for the exit when a really huge guy suddenly approached. He looked like a lineman for a professional football team. This guy was really big, and I ain't no lightweight myself. I don't mean the guy was fat, but really large and appeared quite muscular.
    "Are you a policeman, or do you have a license or permit to carry your weapon that way?" He was inches away.
    I smiled at him and said "Yes, I have a couple of permits. First there's the 2nd Amendment to the United States Constitution. Then there is Article 2 of the Colorado Constitution, specifcally, sections 3 and 13! They are the only permits required for me to exercise my rights to carry open."

    Sudden Impact!
    The man appeared completely taken aback momentarily. It obviously wasn't the answer he expected. But his demeanor changed and he smiled at me as he extended a large hand to shake mine.
    "So you just carry your weapon in the open wherever you go?"
    "Yes sir!" I replied. "It is the right of every law abiding citizen to have the means of self defense."
    The man patted his hand at his belt line at the 10 clock position. "I have my CCW, so I carry too."
    "I have my CCW coming. But until I get it, I will continue to carry open. Even after I get it, I will continue as the mood strikes."
    "But it is legal to carry open like that?"
    "Yes! Everywhere in the state of Colorado, with the exception of City and County of Denver." I referred to the Meiers decision as the reason why Denver is exempt from preemption.

    We had a brief, but information packed exchange and I recommended he check out internet sites on Open Carry. I also recommended he read up on Article 2, sections 3 and 13, and get some answers there.

    He shook my hand again, and we parted company. It was a really great exchange, and I sorta wish I'd have gotten his name and stuff, or at least given mine, so I can keep in touch. He says he will try out open carry himself. There is much we didn't cover in that brief interlude, but I think the sudden impact of our meeting rocked his world!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  2. #2
    Regular Member Lokster's Avatar
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    That's great! Your encounters seem to always have such positive endings. I lived in Aurora for little while and I thought the only good outcome of that was that I eventually left! Now I'm starting to think that I moved to the wrong side of town!

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Good answer regarding the permits.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    M-Taliesin,
    Not to take this thread off course or anything, but how do you like OCing w/ a crossdraw? Any noticeable advantages or disadvantages? I'm a 'south-paw' and carry strong side, but considered carrying a LCP in a crossdraw rig above my right pocket. Just as a backup or by itself if I'm doing some type of work (smaller, out of the way).

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    Regular Member TheLittleMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livetrapper13 View Post
    M-Taliesin,
    Not to take this thread off course or anything, but how do you like OCing w/ a crossdraw? Any noticeable advantages or disadvantages? I'm a 'south-paw' and carry strong side, but considered carrying a LCP in a crossdraw rig above my right pocket. Just as a backup or by itself if I'm doing some type of work (smaller, out of the way).
    I carry crossdraw all the time and it's the only way I plan to carry. The advantages I see are: coming from a kickboxing background I feel most comfortable facing an opponent rather than him coming from behind. In the cross draw position an attacker trying to take my gun will have to come straight at me, very bad for him. Another reason is that it is much a more comfortable position to draw from, the strong side draw feels awkward like i'm twisting my shoulder backwards just to get my gun out. Hope this helps you.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Interesting! Did he reveal why he approached you in the first place i.e. was he the grocery store's bouncer or something?

    I've been asked if I have a permit about half a dozen times, and my answer is usually "not required in either Colorado or nearly 30 other states which allow open carry without a permit."

    Yes, they're usually flabberghasted.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  7. #7
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livetrapper13 View Post
    M-Taliesin,
    Not to take this thread off course or anything, but how do you like OCing w/ a crossdraw? Any noticeable advantages or disadvantages? I'm a 'south-paw' and carry strong side, but considered carrying a LCP in a crossdraw rig above my right pocket. Just as a backup or by itself if I'm doing some type of work (smaller, out of the way).
    Howdy Amigo!
    I like to do different things on different days. Wearing my pistol in the crossdraw position has the advantage when getting in/out of the car.
    I can click in my seatbelt with minimum fuss when the pistol is on the other side.
    Second, it is more openly visible on my left than on my right, where mostly hidden by the console: Open carry in an automobile is permitted so long as the weapon is plainly visible. In the 10 o'clock, it is more visible than on my 3 o'clock with the seatbelt covering and the console in the way.
    I can draw quite quickly from the left side with my right hand while someone attempting a gun grab would find taking my weapon difficult.
    At the 3 o'clock position, it is more accessible to me.
    It is also more visible to others, eliminating any nonsensical claim that I have a pistol partly concealed. It's out there.
    The weapon is certainly more accessible to me when I am driving the car. In the event of an attempted car jacking or some other need to defend, the crossdraw position makes pulling the weapon much easier and puts it in better position right out of the chute than strong side, where clearing the seatbelt and console renders the draw much more complicated and difficult.
    With pistol mounted on left side, I am not so likely to have my weapon noticed by other drivers (say at stop lights or such) who then decide they should alert local police and needlessly waste their time.
    Away from the strong side (where the seatbelt clicks into it's retainer) my pistol won't be subjected to scratching or wear against the retainer.
    Depending on the holster used, I can draw just about as quickly with either hand.

    On the downside, you must be much more conscious of where your muzzle is when drawing. It requires practice to draw and present your pistol from the crossdraw position in such manner as to not sweep across anybody else as you bring your weapon into position. Keeping the pistol pointed at the ground as it is drawn and until brought to position takes a bit of practice but is not a difficult skill to develop.
    Also, crossdraw means being aware of your left hand to keep it out of the line of the muzzle. Again, not too difficult with practice, but you don't wanna shoot your left hand when drawing from the left with your right.

    Plus, there is a great degree of comfort wearing crossdraw as opposed to strongside. Chairs, for example, can catch on your pistol when at the 3 or 9 oclock position. Not so much at 3 o'clock.

    These are just a few of the reasons I like to wear crossdraw at times. I will carry strongside as a rule, but often on my left, especially if I am carrying the Judge. That pistol, in particular, seems better on the crossdraw than my autos.

    Hope that helps give you some ideas.
    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Interesting! Did he reveal why he approached you in the first place i.e. was he the grocery store's bouncer or something?

    I've been asked if I have a permit about half a dozen times, and my answer is usually "not required in either Colorado or nearly 30 other states which allow open carry without a permit."
    Yes, they're usually flabberghasted.
    Howdy Pardner!
    No, he didn't mention why he approached me. I think he was simply a private citizen with a CCW who might have been concerned with seeing a man open carry and thought it was illegal, so he asked only to learn that it isn't. I believe he was genuinely surprised to learn that open carry is legal in our state. I would think, and believe it should be required of all CCW instructors, that they teach about open carry as an option. It seems evident, in light of this encounter with a CCW holder, that they don't bother to share that vital piece of information with their classes.

    Your answer regarding permits is more succinct, but I prefer my own. As opposed to informing somebody that a permit is not required, I stand on my rights under both the Constitution of the United States and the State of Colorado as authority. The difference between "not required" and "I am authorized under constitutional right" might not seem like a big deal but I am somewhat aware of neurolinguistics. "not required" has a negative "not" expressed in the statement. "I am authorized" has a positive assertive confidence along with "constitutional right". When interacting with others, I try to avoid negatives, including the use of words like "no", "not", "none" etc. It may seem like nitpicking, but asserting my position with postives cut more readily through negative thinking with the person with whom I may be speaking.
    "Why do you carry a gun anyhow, I don't like guns."
    "I appreciate your sentiment. My own was similar until a gunman stuck a pistol in my face and threatened my life one dark night. I now am prepared to defend my life. The question now is, what are you going to do when that moment comes?"

    People think they'll never be confronted by a criminal. They think of such things as happening to other people. Why would anybody set upon them? They are nice to everybody they meet, so why would anyone want to attack them? Then one fine day, it happens. They become a victim of crime. I think such an encounter will change their perspective. It certainly did for me!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Thanks guys!
    I'll have to try it out next time I head out to the rage; who knows maybe I'll prefer it!

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livetrapper13 View Post
    Thanks guys!
    I'll have to try it out next time I head out to the rage; who knows maybe I'll prefer it!
    Howdy Pard!
    Why not try it out with your weapon unloaded at home, practice drawing your weapon to see how it works out.
    Then try it in your car from both sides. Again, be sure you have your weapon unloaded. Hate to sound redundant, but it is important enough to repeat.
    Try carrying around the house from crossdraw position, sit, walk, stand, and see how it feels for you.
    Not every solution will work for every carrier. We are each different, and what works for me might not work for you.
    It is something you'll need to determine for yourself.

    But I really like the crossdraw, especially with the Judge. I can release the detention strap with my thumb as my hand closes around the grip and I pull the weapon. As the weapon comes out of the holster, I keep the muzzle pointed at the ground (floor) as I bring it around to the front and into firing position. I keep my left hand/arm out of the muzzle's sweep as I bring it around and bring it up to the weapon as I bring it into firing position.
    I can draw and train on target just as quickly (perhaps even quicker) than with my strongside carry.

    But then again, I've invested quite a bit of time practicing draw from different carry positions on my body.

    Have fun, and when you do go to the range, be practiced up before putting live rounds in the weapon.

    I think you'll like crossdraw, but that's just me.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  11. #11
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Here I thought you stopped a robbery and uttered the immortal lines from "Sudden Impact": "Go ahead. Make my day." I'm so disappointed...
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  12. #12
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Here I thought you stopped a robbery and uttered the immortal lines from "Sudden Impact": "Go ahead. Make my day." I'm so disappointed...
    Howdy Gunslinger!
    Oh, thanks a pantload! Now I gotta wipe off a couple nostrils full of Pepsi off my monitor!
    Way to go amigo!!!!

    LOL! That was funny!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  13. #13
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    I was there last Friday after work. Couldn't OC though. Coming from work all I had was my Kel-Tec in its pocket holster. I do usually OC there at least once a week. So far I have had no negative encounters and a couple positive ones. Maybe I'll see ya there sometime.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Amigo!
    I like to do different things on different days. Wearing my pistol in the crossdraw position has the advantage when getting in/out of the car.
    I can click in my seatbelt with minimum fuss when the pistol is on the other side.
    Second, it is more openly visible on my left than on my right, where mostly hidden by the console: Open carry in an automobile is permitted so long as the weapon is plainly visible. In the 10 o'clock, it is more visible than on my 3 o'clock with the seatbelt covering and the console in the way.
    I can draw quite quickly from the left side with my right hand while someone attempting a gun grab would find taking my weapon difficult.
    At the 3 o'clock position, it is more accessible to me.
    It is also more visible to others, eliminating any nonsensical claim that I have a pistol partly concealed. It's out there.
    The weapon is certainly more accessible to me when I am driving the car. In the event of an attempted car jacking or some other need to defend, the crossdraw position makes pulling the weapon much easier and puts it in better position right out of the chute than strong side, where clearing the seatbelt and console renders the draw much more complicated and difficult.
    With pistol mounted on left side, I am not so likely to have my weapon noticed by other drivers (say at stop lights or such) who then decide they should alert local police and needlessly waste their time.
    Away from the strong side (where the seatbelt clicks into it's retainer) my pistol won't be subjected to scratching or wear against the retainer.
    Depending on the holster used, I can draw just about as quickly with either hand.

    On the downside, you must be much more conscious of where your muzzle is when drawing. It requires practice to draw and present your pistol from the crossdraw position in such manner as to not sweep across anybody else as you bring your weapon into position. Keeping the pistol pointed at the ground as it is drawn and until brought to position takes a bit of practice but is not a difficult skill to develop.
    Also, crossdraw means being aware of your left hand to keep it out of the line of the muzzle. Again, not too difficult with practice, but you don't wanna shoot your left hand when drawing from the left with your right.


    Plus, there is a great degree of comfort wearing crossdraw as opposed to strongside. Chairs, for example, can catch on your pistol when at the 3 or 9 oclock position. Not so much at 3 o'clock.

    These are just a few of the reasons I like to wear crossdraw at times. I will carry strongside as a rule, but often on my left, especially if I am carrying the Judge. That pistol, in particular, seems better on the crossdraw than my autos.

    Hope that helps give you some ideas.
    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

    For me, turning a side to the threat works quite well. If a right hand draw, turn the left side to the threat, If a left hand draw, the right side.

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    For me, turning a side to the threat works quite well. If a right hand draw, turn the left side to the threat, If a left hand draw, the right side.

    Shoulder holsters take practice, as well. However, I do just the opposite. Were I drawing cross or SH, I'd turn my left side to the threat. The pistol is on target virtually immediately after removing from holster with no sweeping. I'd rotate my body to the left--gun still on target, to line it up either for point shooting or to bring to sight line. Learned from an old SEA fellow Aviator who went into the Secret Service.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member GuidoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Shoulder holsters take practice, as well. However, I do just the opposite. Were I drawing cross or SH, I'd turn my left side to the threat. The pistol is on target virtually immediately after removing from holster with no sweeping. I'd rotate my body to the left--gun still on target, to line it up either for point shooting or to bring to sight line. Learned from an old SEA fellow Aviator who went into the Secret Service.
    So, then it's like a "full body" draw in a sense. You don't just us your arm to get in position, but you bring the gun in position using your body first, then simply draw.

    Seems logical and worth a try! Thanks.
    --
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  17. #17
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoZ View Post
    So, then it's like a "full body" draw in a sense. You don't just us your arm to get in position, but you bring the gun in position using your body first, then simply draw.

    Seems logical and worth a try! Thanks.
    --
    Peace. ~G
    I've seen guys who are really good at this draw and fire from across their body quite accurately. Like some of the old Cowboy movies...I can hit the target well at 5 yards or under double tap with my left arm raised and way the heck out of the way, of course. Give it a try--slowly, and see what you think.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 07-27-2011 at 11:58 AM.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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