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If OC and CC were legal in all 50 states......

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
This is why I'm divided on the issue of constitutional carry. I do think that it's ridiculous that I had to pay the state $115 to fingerprint me and take a picture, but at the same time, I know that if we didn't have a required permit that most people would save their money and do their own training and research...which may or may not be safe or effective.

Also, the safety course that I took (which I think cost $50, my grandfather paid it for me), was given by the local hunting and fishing association, which is non-profit. The intructors don't get paid, all of the money goes toward ammunition for the qualifying portion, and the rest goes towards the club's expenses (range maintenance, insurance, supplies, etc).

So yes, the intructors would get less money, some hunting clubs would probably have funds dry up, and IMO, there'd be too many people carrying handguns without proper training.

It's all about treading that fine line between trying to keep hanguns out of the hands of those for which it is illegal (felons, mentals, etc), and not making handgun carry into a priveledge instead of a right. I'm not sure I can say which I feel is better, but I think paying $165 and waiting 2 months for a permit to come in the mail is a bit restrictive, but anyone untrained carrying a handgun (which all can agree is way more difficult than a rifle), is less than ideal.

My wife has had all of the "required" training to get a permit but yet she has issues hitting a target at 10 yards. Do I think she is a danger to carry? No I don't. She can reliably hit a target at five yards and realistically most SD shootings will happen even closer. Also remember that most places that allow OC don't require any training and yet they don't have wild and crazy problems. Putting clothing over a weapon doesn't magically make problems crop up.

Yall also forgot FP "Firearms Permit". Mississippi doesn't issue CWP, CHL, etc :rolleyes:

Oh I was just giving him a hard time and just said the two I knew from the states I've been to.
 

okboomer

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
1,164
Location
Oklahoma, USA
My wife has had all of the "required" training to get a permit but yet she has issues hitting a target at 10 yards. Do I think she is a danger to carry? No I don't. She can reliably hit a target at five yards and realistically most SD shootings will happen even closer. Also remember that most places that allow OC don't require any training and yet they don't have wild and crazy problems. Putting clothing over a weapon doesn't magically make problems crop up.

Sounds like she is anticipating the shot/recoil. Have you tried a smaller caliber or loading a lighter round. More range time will resolve this issue :banana:
 

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
Sounds like she is anticipating the shot/recoil. Have you tried a smaller caliber or loading a lighter round. More range time will resolve this issue :banana:

She is anticipating the shot and I was working with her to get her to stop, but we just haven't had a chance to work on it a lot. She also has tried the 9mm, 380, and .40 and she liked the 380 the best, but was still having issues. Though it's a good thing she likes the .380 as it will be her CC gun once she resubmits her paperwork (long story short is she took the class, didn't submit the paperwork, and now needs to retake the class).
 

okboomer

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
1,164
Location
Oklahoma, USA
You might even try a .22 revolver ... and more dry fire exercises ... Also, what kind of ear protection is she using?

I have sensitive hearing and use 25db ear muffs rather than the foam ear plugs. When I use the ear plugs, I can still feel the overpressure even though I am not hearing the report and that would distract me enough to spoil my aim. This was back when I was first starting with pistols, rifles didn't bother me at all.
 

WalkingWolf

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Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
She is anticipating the shot and I was working with her to get her to stop, but we just haven't had a chance to work on it a lot. She also has tried the 9mm, 380, and .40 and she liked the 380 the best, but was still having issues. Though it's a good thing she likes the .380 as it will be her CC gun once she resubmits her paperwork (long story short is she took the class, didn't submit the paperwork, and now needs to retake the class).

I trained my wife in point shooting with a gas airsoft pistol. No recoil, no loud noise, much like dry fire except the bright bb can be seen on it's way to the target. Aiming with the sights is something that is lost during high stress, and why many well trained officers completely miss their mark in a real gunfight. Not to mention that most shootings happen at night. From the airsoft we progressed to wax bullets in her 38 revolver. Unfortunately wax bullets will not work in autos. From wax loads to light loads and she can instinct shoot with acceptable accuracy for self defense.
 

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
We both have actual ear muffs and not simple ear plugs. I might try the air soft thing, but I think she really just needs more range time as she hasn't really shot a handgun a whole lot. The issue with a .22 or airsoft is that it requires buying another gun and that is something she wouldn't approve of. Though if I could find a .22 with a 30 round mag I would get it. Pity the the keltec was in .22 mag and not lr.
 

JamesB

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
703
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
I am an intructor here in Colorado. If conctitutional carry became legal here I doubt it would hurt my business. It would likely hurt others here. I say that because a large number of instructors here have a 4-hour classroom only class. They do not even have to handle a firearm in order to pass.

Currently there is a requirement that you get training here for your ccw but there is no requirement on what that training must consist of. If the training requirement was lifted, some instructors would be flat out of business, but only the ones who don't actually provide training.

As mentioned previously, there is no training requirement here for open carry. Anybody can go purchase a gun and immediately strap it on having never even touched a gun before. Constitutional carry would be the same thing. The majority of open carriers who have no requirement are better trained than those with a ccw and must take a class. Either way, to be responsible one should continue to look for more training oportunities. I find that the majority who carry concealed take the one minimal required course and consider it done. Almost as if...why should I take the wife on a date, we are already married.

As long as instructors offer actual training, there will always be a market for it.
 

OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
You might even try a .22 revolver ... and more dry fire exercises ... Also, what kind of ear protection is she using?

I have sensitive hearing and use 25db ear muffs rather than the foam ear plugs. When I use the ear plugs, I can still feel the overpressure even though I am not hearing the report and that would distract me enough to spoil my aim. This was back when I was first starting with pistols, rifles didn't bother me at all.

You might try ear plugs AND 30db muffs together. It helps me at the range.

When hunting, I don't even notice the bang, back blast or recoil.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
I work with my wife with a .22 all the time. She does not like my .38, the 9X19 Lugar, or anything larger. She's ok with the 9X18 mak, but she loves her High Standard Trophy and Olympic target .22s

You can find good used target .22 revolver for not much, Something like the High Standard Longhorn, 9 shot .22lr with a 9 shot 22mag cylinder to swap out if you want to shoot 22 mags. Very accurate revolver, nice weight and balance. Not a compitition pistol, but really very good for what it is. Not much money, save it in ammo costs.

Also several pistols (like the CZ 75/85) have .22 conversion kits...same frame, just swap to a different barrel, slide and spring. My wife has the 22 short conversion for her High Standard Trophy so it will shoot closer to the Olympic. Very accurate and fun. Grandkids live those High Standards too. .22's are great for training. Nobody flinches with a .22.
 
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Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
The issue with a .22 is that it isn't really something I would want my wife to CC, and that is the ultimate goal. I want one for training, but it just isn't a good choice for my wife to CC (yes I know about shot placement, but a larger bullet means you have a larger margin for error which is very useful in a high stress environment; especially for my wife).
 

okboomer

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
1,164
Location
Oklahoma, USA
The issue with a .22 is that it isn't really something I would want my wife to CC, and that is the ultimate goal. I want one for training, but it just isn't a good choice for my wife to CC (yes I know about shot placement, but a larger bullet means you have a larger margin for error which is very useful in a high stress environment; especially for my wife).

My Kimber UCII in .45 is not an overpowering recoil despite the shorter barrel. I would definitely take it over the Makarov ... couldn't sell that one quick enough :lol:

Even my Bersa .380 is a bit harder hitting than the EMP 9mm and the Kimber ... but until I had enough range time to develop the muscles in my hand, wrist and arm, I was sore the next day even when only firing 25 rounds. Now, I can shoot 500-1000 round range sessions without the physical reaction the next day :banana:
 
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