A sports bar would be the best environment, I think. There's food, people, and beer for the drinking. I think the mere presence of food is enough to quell the concerns of many people. I've had different experiences at different places. I went to two different Buffalo Wild Wings restaurants at two different times. One served me at the bar without so much as a word, the other asked me not to carry while drinking there. I know which one I will return to in the future.
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Guns and... Alcohol?
- Thread starter clarkebar
- Start date
A sports bar would be the best environment, I think. There's food, people, and beer for the drinking. I think the mere presence of food is enough to quell the concerns of many people. I've had different experiences at different places. I went to two different Buffalo Wild Wings restaurants at two different times. One served me at the bar without so much as a word, the other asked me not to carry while drinking there. I know which one I will return to in the future.
ManInBlack
Regular Member
Fair enough. I'm game. Send me a PM and let's make this happen.
EDIT: Regarding the time you were asked not to drink while carrying at BWW, did you ever contact their corporate and find out what the policy is, just out of curiosity?
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I think moderation is important. Becoming the test case for defining a new standard isn't on my agenda though.
I'm willing to join you on a trip to someplace like Cheerleaders. I'm good for one an hour or being the designated driver, either way.
Let me know in advance.
I'm willing to join you on a trip to someplace like Cheerleaders. I'm good for one an hour or being the designated driver, either way.
Let me know in advance.
hitbackfirst
Regular Member
As I see it, this question revolves around three separate issues.
Legality: As I understand the law in Idaho, you could pass out drunk with a handgun visibly holstered on your hip without violating the law. That said, I would not put it past a DA to file a bogus charge such as reckless endangerment and try for a conviction. He might very well get it too, considering the deep-seated prejudices which many hold against both gun owners and drinkers.
Public Relations: Being seen at a restaurant having a dinner which includes a drink or two is probably an overall positive in this category. Being seen at a bar (even a sports bar) is probably an overall negative. (That does not mean one should not do it, I just do not see it as a positive action from a public relations standpoint.)
Logic: Carrying a gun (even when drinking) does not alter the nature of man. If one has violent tendencies, alcohol may exacerbate those tendencies, but for the vast majority of people, if you would not commit a homicide while sober, you will not commit one when drinking. We must not fall into the trap of equating carrying a firearm to being more dangerous. Firearms are not dangerous - people are dangerous. If you are unfamiliar with how you react when drinking, you should not carry. If you tend to get violent when drinking, you should not carry. If you can not remember what happens when you drink, you definitely should not carry. However, if you are able to drink alcohol and continue to behave in a normal fashion (albeit perhaps in a bit better mood) there is no logical reason why having a holstered weapon on your hip would increase the danger of the experience.
The one situation where drinking while carrying could be a huge detriment to you is if you draw your weapon. It does not matter how justified you are in drawing and/or using your weapon - your accuracy will suffer, your judgement will not be as sharp, and your reaction time will be slower. In addition to these physical limitations, the resulting encounter with law enforcement is likely to be even more negative than it would be if you were completely sober.
Overall, I believe that there is no increased danger in carrying while drinking for those who have an accurate understanding of their inclinations and limitations - provided they do not draw their weapon. That said, I carry exclusively for self defense, and I would not fully trust myself to make the necessary critical decisions in a self-defense scenario if I had been drinking, so I would not personally carry a weapon while drinking. I certainly understand why some would choose to do so, and I do not condemn their decision. Each individual must make their own decision and be prepared to live with the repercussions that their decision may bring.
Legality: As I understand the law in Idaho, you could pass out drunk with a handgun visibly holstered on your hip without violating the law. That said, I would not put it past a DA to file a bogus charge such as reckless endangerment and try for a conviction. He might very well get it too, considering the deep-seated prejudices which many hold against both gun owners and drinkers.
Public Relations: Being seen at a restaurant having a dinner which includes a drink or two is probably an overall positive in this category. Being seen at a bar (even a sports bar) is probably an overall negative. (That does not mean one should not do it, I just do not see it as a positive action from a public relations standpoint.)
Logic: Carrying a gun (even when drinking) does not alter the nature of man. If one has violent tendencies, alcohol may exacerbate those tendencies, but for the vast majority of people, if you would not commit a homicide while sober, you will not commit one when drinking. We must not fall into the trap of equating carrying a firearm to being more dangerous. Firearms are not dangerous - people are dangerous. If you are unfamiliar with how you react when drinking, you should not carry. If you tend to get violent when drinking, you should not carry. If you can not remember what happens when you drink, you definitely should not carry. However, if you are able to drink alcohol and continue to behave in a normal fashion (albeit perhaps in a bit better mood) there is no logical reason why having a holstered weapon on your hip would increase the danger of the experience.
The one situation where drinking while carrying could be a huge detriment to you is if you draw your weapon. It does not matter how justified you are in drawing and/or using your weapon - your accuracy will suffer, your judgement will not be as sharp, and your reaction time will be slower. In addition to these physical limitations, the resulting encounter with law enforcement is likely to be even more negative than it would be if you were completely sober.
Overall, I believe that there is no increased danger in carrying while drinking for those who have an accurate understanding of their inclinations and limitations - provided they do not draw their weapon. That said, I carry exclusively for self defense, and I would not fully trust myself to make the necessary critical decisions in a self-defense scenario if I had been drinking, so I would not personally carry a weapon while drinking. I certainly understand why some would choose to do so, and I do not condemn their decision. Each individual must make their own decision and be prepared to live with the repercussions that their decision may bring.
Hiredgun30
Regular Member
the only question i pose??? with ammo prices skyrocketing and gas almost 4.00 a gallon, how could any gun owner afford to drink ...lol...
It would be interesting to go to Impact some afternoon and shoot some 5 and 10 yard targets, go drink 2 beers, wait 20 minutes, go back and shoot another set for 15 minutes, then go for 2 more beers, wait 20 and then shoot the same set again. Interesting experiment and possibly enlightening, HOWEVER IT TURNS OUT, as both data and for the individuals involved.
I'm running out to Parma today to do some business and, hopefully, finally putting some rounds through my FN AR. No beer though!
I'm running out to Parma today to do some business and, hopefully, finally putting some rounds through my FN AR. No beer though!
Alright, I've got to respond to this... in three separate answers:
First, you're probably right.
Second, I've got to know why you think it would be seen as negative when someone is drinking while open carrying at a sports bar and not negative if they're engaging in the exact same behavior at a different location, such as a restaurant. I think you're not thinking this through. Forget the fact that being at one location vice being at the other conjures up several different points of view as to one's intentions when it comes to drinking alcohol, what you're missing here is the fact that some people think you're crazy for carrying a gun into WalMart. The reason you still do is because you do not CARE. The whole idea behind engaging in a behavior in order to force others to pay no attention is to do those things that people normally pay attention to so they will STOP paying attention! Simply carrying a gun is seen by some as an overall negative, don't you think that means you should stop then? See what I mean... logical extension of an idea.
And last, I must protest your professed truth. When I have a couple of beers by the campfire in the desert I become more relaxed, and thereby more accurate when I shoot at small game or targets. I do not disagree with your assesment, that drunk people will generally be more dangerous when discharging firearms than sober people. The trouble is that some people are just straight dangerous when they're sober! My point is this: you cannot make a statement as though it is fact about something you don't have the evidence to support. On top of that there is no way to gather any evidence which will support your statement because you can't! There's simply no way to objectively compare two self-defense situations with the same person, the same targets, the same surroundings, and the same bystanders with the defender being sober and then, inebriated. I don't doubt you could find examples of both but they will never be comparable on any level. There are just too many variables. Having said that, I feel it is a safe bet that any person who carries a firearm will exercise a certain degree of self-control in everything they do. I know I don't know everyone in the States, but I feel that, as usual, there is a fairly sizable majority of people who are alive, who like living in a society with a degree of order, and a massive amount of liberty. I think that this majority of people should be allowed that liberty, while laws are enacted to punish those who would infringe on it. That is, yet another, logical extension of an idea.
We-the-People
Regular Member
Here's my take on this issue......
Here in Oregon (I'm cruising Idaho as it's on my "short list" for relocation) we can be plasterd, passed out drunk, and it's no violation on the firearm. I do drink occasionally while carrying (I never go out without carrying) but I drink non alcoholic drinks unless it is A glass of wine with a full dinner (rare). Here's why.
In July of 2001....wow I just realized I missed the anniversary, first time in 10 years that I wasn't a blubbering mess...... On July 27th 2001 my wife and I had dinner at my parents house and then headed home on our motorcycle for the 60 mile ride home. Three miles from the house we crashed.
I was in and out of conciousness at the scene, in the helicopter, and at the hospital. Sometime before surgury, in one of my conscious though morphined up periods, a State Patrol officer asked me, as I way laying on the gurney, "did you have anything to drink tonight" and I was able to truthfully tell him "NO".
If my answer hadn't been "no", no matter how little, I would still be asking myself to this day if my wifes death was my fault because I'd had a drink.
If I ever have to use my weapon in self defense I want to be able to make that same statement!
Imagine that you've just gone through the trauma of an SD shooting and you're alive but there's an innocent down. Do you want to live the rest of your life wondering?
Here in Oregon (I'm cruising Idaho as it's on my "short list" for relocation) we can be plasterd, passed out drunk, and it's no violation on the firearm. I do drink occasionally while carrying (I never go out without carrying) but I drink non alcoholic drinks unless it is A glass of wine with a full dinner (rare). Here's why.
In July of 2001....wow I just realized I missed the anniversary, first time in 10 years that I wasn't a blubbering mess...... On July 27th 2001 my wife and I had dinner at my parents house and then headed home on our motorcycle for the 60 mile ride home. Three miles from the house we crashed.
I was in and out of conciousness at the scene, in the helicopter, and at the hospital. Sometime before surgury, in one of my conscious though morphined up periods, a State Patrol officer asked me, as I way laying on the gurney, "did you have anything to drink tonight" and I was able to truthfully tell him "NO".
If my answer hadn't been "no", no matter how little, I would still be asking myself to this day if my wifes death was my fault because I'd had a drink.
If I ever have to use my weapon in self defense I want to be able to make that same statement!
Imagine that you've just gone through the trauma of an SD shooting and you're alive but there's an innocent down. Do you want to live the rest of your life wondering?
Would you feel any different if you had shot an innocent bystander and you WEREN'T drunk? I think I'd actually feel worse if I were sober and had hit someone who wasn't involved...
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We-the-People
Regular Member
If I'm feeling anything then obviously I've survived. If I was drinking, at any level, I would always wonder if that innocent would have been hit had I been sober. If I was stone cold sober, then I would know that the innocent was hit because of the bad situation created by the BG and that I did the best I could.
So, just because the bad guy picked a time when you were drinking, you'd feel at fault for his actions? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense... If you're saying you'd just chalk it up to the bad guy putting you in a bad situation, I don't see how that's different whether or not you're drunk. It's still the bad guy's fault if you've been drinking or not because he started the whole thing, if you're thinking of it that way.
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We-the-People
Regular Member
No, I would simply wonder, for the rest of my life, if the innocent would have been hit had I not had anything to drink. Just as I would still be blaming myself for my wifes death if I'd had anything to drink the night we crashed our motorcycle. At least I know that I had all of my faculties when that crash happened and so I don't have to worry about "what if I hadn't had that drink". Same principle here.