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Thread: OC in Michigan on Private Property

  1. #1
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    OC in Michigan on Private Property

    I searched but was unable to find...

    Can you open carry on private property in Michigan if you are not the owner?

    If you would like more details I can provide them.

    Thanks.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO!!! Stick around and you will learn a lot!!!! I recommend that you repost this in the Michigan forum here:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...p?106-Michigan

    You are more likely to get an accurate response there.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 07-24-2011 at 08:25 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    reposted...

    I saw the "This topic should be used to discuss questions about where you can and cannot open carry." and figure this was the area to post.

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    What kind of private property? A store, your store? A home/yard, your home/yard? CPL?

    Welcome =D
    Last edited by stainless1911; 07-24-2011 at 09:08 PM.

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    It would be my home, in the front yard \ porch area.

    I had someone come to my door this morning who was openly carrying. I have nothing against open carry, it just made me think what kind of recourse does someone have when another individual brings a weapon onto their property.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titleist View Post
    It would be my home, in the front yard \ porch area.

    I had someone come to my door this morning who was openly carrying. I have nothing against open carry, it just made me think what kind of recourse does someone have when another individual brings a weapon onto their property.
    Was this someone you knew or a stranger that came to your door armed?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    The pistol doesn't change anything, you can ask someone to leave your property for whatever reason you want. Whether that be because they are wearing a blue shirt on a Tuesday, or because they have a Ruger Security Six on their hip. Just like they don't have to ask permission to come onto your property to come to knock on your door (unless you have up signs, saying no trespassing, a fence, and such), if they are wearing a blue shirt on a Tuesday, or have a Ruger Security Six on their hip. But if you ask them to leave they must.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titleist View Post
    I searched but was unable to find...

    Can you open carry on private property in Michigan if you are not the owner?

    If you would like more details I can provide them.

    Thanks.
    As I understand it, you can OC on someone else's private property, until they ask you not to.
    Big Gay Al
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    Why does it bother you? If he were a criminal, he wouldnt be openly carrying.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Why does it bother you? If he were a criminal, he wouldnt be openly carrying.
    I don't think this is always an accurate statement.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Odds are pretty slim.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Odds are pretty slim.
    True! Except for homocidal maniacs,most BGs are cowards and shun any type of attention from good guys(the public and or LEOs)!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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    The gun is not relevant. I can OC on your property. The only redress you have is to trespass me. You can ask a person to leave your private property for any reason (or no reason). If your property is a public accommodation engaged in interstate commerce, you cannot discriminate based on race, color, religion, or national origin. You can discriminate based on whether or not they are practicing their 2nd amendment.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    The gun is not relevant. I can OC on your property. The only redress you have is to trespass me. You can ask a person to leave your private property for any reason (or no reason). If your property is a public accommodation engaged in interstate commerce, you cannot discriminate based on race, color, religion, or national origin. You can discriminate based on whether or not they are practicing their 2nd amendment.
    Which even former New Jersey Superior Court Judge Andrew Napolitano, says isn't right. Imagine that, a Libertarian from New Jersey!!
    Big Gay Al
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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    I dont think Titleist liked the answers you guys were giving him. I think he wanted to do something about it and once he found out he couldnt he left. He must have been scared by the sight of a holstered firearm. If you asked him he would say he doesnt BELIEVE in guns.

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    Thats what i thought too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Which even former New Jersey Superior Court Judge Andrew Napolitano, says isn't right. Imagine that, a Libertarian from New Jersey!!
    While I agree gun ownership and possession should be a natural right, I don't agree with the Judge's position on private property rights. I believe that land owners (or their agents) should have near absolute authority over who and what they permit on their private property, even if it's a public accommodation, and even if it's contrary to the visitors natural rights.

    So if someone wants to kick a person off their property because they are __________ (fill in the blank with anything), they should be permitted to do so. Of course, they will have to live with the blowback from that decision.

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    Napolitano isn't a libertarian precisely because of his stance on private property. In his mind, it's ok for the state to initiate aggression against the shop owner when the shop owner chooses to practice freedom of association. Why he can identify .gov abuses and corruption in so many areas but fail to see the .gov abuse in this issue, I have no idea.

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    Because people should be able to keep the rights that they were born with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Because people should be able to keep the rights that they were born with.
    One of which is the inalienable right to property. I believe in the adage that, "your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose." I would never ban someone from my property for carrying, but if I am to be allowed to ban people for reasons that I see fit, others must be allowed to do so. My property is sacrosanct.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 07-29-2011 at 01:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    One of which is the inalienable right to property. I believe in the adage that, "your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose." I would never ban someone from my property for carrying, but if I am to be allowed to ban people for reasons that I see fit, others must be allowed to do so. My property is sacrosanct.
    Well it's not that black and white. Personal property like a home is different than private property that wants people to enter it for trade purposes. One is open to the public and one is not.

    One has to draw a line at some point where a business can restrict the constitutional rights of a customer. This, I believe is an interesting question. I know that a person is free to go elsewhere for services, but what happens in situations where that isn't possible or practical. Rural areas have less choices than urban areas. It's not an easy balance to protect everyones rights at all times, but perhaps it should be the goal.
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    Rights aren't inalienable nor are they "things" with which one is born. These ideas are philosophies espousing political or personal belief systems. In fact, "Rights" are legal fictions which can be protected under the law from government intrusion or aggression by others, or not.

    Having said that, if the law is going to protect the rights of individuals from each other, then your rights necessarily end where mine begin. This is the only way to protect all parties from each other. If the "right" to private property is protected under the law, then the owner's complete authority about who and what comes and goes from the property is supreme. Another person's "right" to keep and bare arms doesn't allow him to infringe on the first's "right" to private property. And it's no infringement upon the second...for the very reason that the second has no "right" to be there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Well it's not that black and white. Personal property like a home is different than private property that wants people to enter it for trade purposes. One is open to the public and one is not.

    One has to draw a line at some point where a business can restrict the constitutional rights of a customer. This, I believe is an interesting question. I know that a person is free to go elsewhere for services, but what happens in situations where that isn't possible or practical. Rural areas have less choices than urban areas. It's not an easy balance to protect everyones rights at all times, but perhaps it should be the goal.
    Do you believe that a private business shouldn't be allowed to post a "no shoes, no shirt, no service" sign? After all, that infringes the First Amendment rights of the customers.

    If the government can tell a business owner what types of people he must admit to his property, he no longer has true ownership of his business. Like Rand Paul and many other constitutionalists, I believe that the Civil Rights Act was a bridge too far.

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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by CoonDog View Post
    Rights aren't inalienable nor are they "things" with which one is born. These ideas are philosophies espousing political or personal belief systems. In fact, "Rights" are legal fictions which can be protected under the law from government intrusion or aggression by others, or not.
    Well, it appears that you and I operate in two different universes. Have a nice ride!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Orion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Well, it appears that you and I operate in two different universes. Have a nice ride!
    Actually CoonDog is correct. We in the U.S. take certain rights to be unalienable, as stated in the Declaration of Independence. Such is not the case throughout the entire world. Our rights belong to us because of our philosophical and political beliefs. Those same rights are not held in other, more oppresive countries, nor even in all of the so-called Western democracies.

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