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Thread: LEO Notification

  1. #1
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    LEO Notification

    Is there a duty to inform when dealing with LE in Utah? Thanks.
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    According to handgunlaw.us there is no duty to inform in Utah.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/utah.pdf
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    There is no legal requirement to inform an LEO either that you hold a CFP nor that you are armed. That said, you will generally get a warmer reception from LEO if you do so in a polite and non threatening manner. This is true especially if you are going to do something that might expose your firearm to view.

    My experience has been that the nicer you are to them, the nicer they will be to you. That being said, I in no way encourage anyone to surrender their rights in order to get along with an LEO. You can assert your rights and still be polite.

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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Thanks rpyne.

    I disagree with notifying as a courtesy though. I feel it's to much of a gamble. You never know what type of officer you're dealing with. Just as they never know what type of person they are dealing with. They don't trust me and I don't trust them.
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    Title 18, Article 12

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Depends on the Circumstances

    I do not disagree with either of the two posts above this one. In my opinion, it depends on the circumstances. A casual contact probably does not make notification to appear advantageous. However, the more official the contact, the more I suggest notification.

    I have had many contacts with law enforcement and each time I have notified, it has been well received. Only once has law enforcement ever asked to see my permit and I believe that was because an officer noticed a possible "print" at a high profile public event several years ago. After seeing the permit, the two officers were very friendly and we talked guns and marksmanship for a bit.

    All LEOs are trained to assume everyone they may have contact with is a potential threat. To my way of thinking (others may disagree), notification tells the LEO that you are a law abiding citizen. They know that Utah is one of the few States that does a repeat background check every day for every permit holder.

    Carry on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    I do not disagree with either of the two posts above this one. In my opinion, it depends on the circumstances. A casual contact probably does not make notification to appear advantageous. However, the more official the contact, the more I suggest notification.

    I have had many contacts with law enforcement and each time I have notified, it has been well received. Only once has law enforcement ever asked to see my permit and I believe that was because an officer noticed a possible "print" at a high profile public event several years ago. After seeing the permit, the two officers were very friendly and we talked guns and marksmanship for a bit.

    All LEOs are trained to assume everyone they may have contact with is a potential threat. To my way of thinking (others may disagree), notification tells the LEO that you are a law abiding citizen. They know that Utah is one of the few States that does a repeat background check every day for every permit holder.

    Carry on.
    (I added the emphasis)
    I'm a little surprised how many LEOs and citizens alike DON'T know about that.

    I know I appreciate those who inform at the beginning of a traffic stop (or other official contact) when they are armed. The respect goes two ways, I know you're not required to inform, if you don't and I know you have a permit, I'm much more "on guard" than I am with those who inform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    I do not disagree with either of the two posts above this one. In my opinion, it depends on the circumstances. A casual contact probably does not make notification to appear advantageous. However, the more official the contact, the more I suggest notification.

    I have had many contacts with law enforcement and each time I have notified, it has been well received. Only once has law enforcement ever asked to see my permit and I believe that was because an officer noticed a possible "print" at a high profile public event several years ago. After seeing the permit, the two officers were very friendly and we talked guns and marksmanship for a bit.

    All LEOs are trained to assume everyone they may have contact with is a potential threat. To my way of thinking (others may disagree), notification tells the LEO that you are a law abiding citizen. They know that Utah is one of the few States that does a repeat background check every day for every permit holder.

    Carry on.
    Emph. mine.

    Every day? That seems to be a bit much given the load the BCI already has. I thought they did it regularly but maybe every year or so at most, and when someone commits/gets convicted of a crime marking them ineligible for the permit immediately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsupial View Post
    Emph. mine.

    Every day? That seems to be a bit much given the load the BCI already has. I thought they did it regularly but maybe every year or so at most, and when someone commits/gets convicted of a crime marking them ineligible for the permit immediately.
    Yes, every day. It is an automated computer process that checks against arrest and conviction records.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmanluke View Post
    (I added the emphasis)
    I'm a little surprised how many LEOs and citizens alike DON'T know about that.

    I know I appreciate those who inform at the beginning of a traffic stop (or other official contact) when they are armed. The respect goes two ways, I know you're not required to inform, if you don't and I know you have a permit, I'm much more "on guard" than I am with those who inform.
    So, I am to be judged more of a risk for claiming my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and PROTECTIONS.... just seems wrong!

    Me thinks that I'd like to have the Legislature remove ANY reference on the LEO accessible DL database regarding CWP! Especially since it is NOW legal for me to carry concealed or open, loaded or unloading in a vehicle I am authorized to have or with permission (as a passenger) from someone else in the car that is authorized to have the vehicle!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 07-28-2011 at 08:38 PM. Reason: more info/clarification

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    Yes, every day. It is an automated computer process that checks against arrest and conviction records.
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    So, I am to be judged more of a risk for claiming my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and PROTECTIONS.... just seems wrong!

    Me thinks that I'd like to have the Legislature remove ANY reference on the LEO accessable DL database regarding CWP!


    I wouldn't consider it judged as it is the govt making sure they've dotted all the i's and crossed their t's as a liability thing and nothing more. That said, I hope the state passes a constitutional carry statue next year. I hear Wimmer will be doing it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsupial View Post
    I wouldn't consider it judged as it is the govt making sure they've dotted all the i's and crossed their t's as a liability thing and nothing more. That said, I hope the state passes a constitutional carry statue next year. I hear Wimmer will be doing it again.
    Marsupial, you need to reread the post I quoted. Your comment has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I COMMENTED ON!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Marsupial, you need to reread the post I quoted. Your comment has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I COMMENTED ON!
    I misread that since your later quote didn't include the former statement as well. I presumed it was about the BCI checking daily.
    Last edited by Marsupial; 07-28-2011 at 08:40 PM.

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    2 cents

    I know this is an older thread but here are my thoughts. Notify or don't I am indifferent and it is not required by any law. Please don't handle the weapon.

    Story: Stopped a gentleman today. He notified me he had a gun as he pulled it out covering himself and me with the muzzle. Placed it in the center console. Fine, returned short time later with his warning and the gun was gone now. Note: was not handling with firing grip, kel-tec .380 in pocket holster but still covered me with the muzzle.

    I would prefer we leave weapons in holsters and stop handling them when interacting with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stargateranch View Post
    I know this is an older thread but here are my thoughts. Notify or don't I am indifferent and it is not required by any law. Please don't handle the weapon.

    Story: Stopped a gentleman today. He notified me he had a gun as he pulled it out covering himself and me with the muzzle. Placed it in the center console. Fine, returned short time later with his warning and the gun was gone now. Note: was not handling with firing grip, kel-tec .380 in pocket holster but still covered me with the muzzle.

    I would prefer we leave weapons in holsters and stop handling them when interacting with me.
    Agreed, Haven't heard of many or ANY firearms that have gone off ON THEIR OWN when retained in an appropriate holster.... LOOSE IN THE POCKET AIN'T AN APPROPRIATE HOLSTER!!!!!
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    No experience with a Utah LEO stop, but traveling to OR from UT, 13 yrs ago, I got pulled over by a NV State Trooper. I had two loaded handguns in the glove compartment, and notified the trooper as soon as he stopped at my window that I had a UT CFP, which I produced with my DL. He actually thanked me for letting him know, and wished me a safe trip - but at a lower speed. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-25-2012 at 01:24 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    No experience with a Utah LEO stop, but traveling to OR from UT, 13 yrs ago, I got pulled over by a NV State Trooper. I had two loaded handguns in the glove compartment, and notified the trooper as soon as he stopped at my window that I had a UT CFP, which I produced with my DL. He actually thanked me for letting him know, and wished me a safe trip - but at a lower speed. Pax...
    No duty to inform here, either, but they SOMETIMES appreciate as in your case. I had one case with the NHP and I politely informed him I was legally armed with a CCW. Dumbass rookie made me get out and put my hands up so he could disarm me. He had to struggle to do so until I asked him to just remove the entire holster so he wouldn't shoot me with my own cocked-and-locked Kimber 1911. He's probably never shot anything other than his DA Sig. So while I'm sitting back in my car while the dumbass illegally performs a serial number and registration check on my firearm in his car, I decide I'm not going to tell him about the loaded Walther pistol in the console... Did I mention he was a dumbass?

    Oh and just to make sure you know. Things changed from 13 years ago. Your UT permit is no longer recognized here, unfortunately.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Oh and just to make sure you know. Things changed from 13 years ago. Your UT permit is no longer recognized here, unfortunately.
    Thanks for the heads-up, Mac, but I was already aware of that. NV withdrew their reciprocity several years ago, but I think a UT CFP is still acceptable if one is "just passing through" NV, is it not? (Just to be safe, I have OC'd whenever passing thru NV since the change, inasmuch as NV is an OC state.) Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-26-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    ... I think a UT CFP is still acceptable if one is "just passing through" NV, is it not?...
    Negative, good sir.

    Your UT permit means absolutely nothing here anymore. But, as you say, the good news is that we are still a relatively free state, and you may OC on public streets, and possess in your car any which way you choose, as long as it is not concealed on your person.

    And seats and seatbelts do not count for "concealment" if you are OC in the car.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-26-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092
    Only once has law enforcement ever asked to see my permit... After seeing the permit, the two officers were very friendly and we talked guns and marksmanship for a bit.
    So did you show them both cards, or only the red one?
    Showing both might have something to do with their being "very friendly".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmanluke View Post
    The respect goes two ways, I know you're not required to inform, if you don't and I know you have a permit, I'm much more "on guard" than I am with those who inform.
    That's silly. You know they are carrying legally. One group simply decided to inform you of a legally-irrelevant fact. Neither group is any more or less dangerous than the other.

    What you really meant to say is that you appreciate the subservience of those who inform, because they clearly know their true place as mere serfs under your merciful protection. Consequently, you try to treat them a little easier, compared with those pesky "citizens" who know their rights and are not afraid to assert their roles as your employers.
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