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Colorado Forum, Lingering Belmar Thoughts!

DinFreemont

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
53
Location
Freemont County, CO
Your only problem is the PDR of Denver without a CCW. If you can live with staying the hell out of there--I can, you have no concerns.

I have to go to that hell-hole about once every two months it is a three hour drive from here and I do avoid it as much as I can... I know all about Denver and have no taste to go to big cities unless I am getting paid for the trip. I have to go to California in a week or so (and do several times a year) and to tell the truth the people in Denver are just a nasty little slice of Californication slapped into our fine state like a festering boil.
 

ColoradoFlyer

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
83
Location
Douglas County, CO.
Lurker, probably. Is the gun show really the best place to talk about OC. Maybe there are some that are not familiar with it but I suspect that many are. I am in the aviation business and when it comes to advertising we dont advertise in the aviation publications because those people are already familiar with our products and services and we want to attract people that are not familiar. I reflect on my recent encounter at the Outlet mall here in Castle Rock with the folks from California, posted elsewhere. What about all those folks at Sportsman Warehouse that are buying a gun for the first time. Last 3 times in there there was someone buying a gun for the first time. Get the folks at Sportsman Warehouse to add a flyer to each gun sale.

No need to make up a special flyer, take a look at the folks in Seattle under the WA state forum. I downloaded their flyer and it just could be modified with the appropriate CO information. My 2 cents, which based on the current debt limit is now worthless.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Howdy Folks!
When I started this thread, I didn't think there'd be much response. Evidently, more people want to promote OC than I anticipated.
Great!

I am going to take awhile to examine some pamphlets about OC from other states to see how theirs are put together. Maybe I'll even attempt to cobble something together specific for Colorado.

Rocky Mountain Gun Owners are a great resource, but we are interested specifically in OC here in Colorado.
Business cards are also terrific. T-Shirts? The bomb!

There are many ways we can help educate the people about OC. One member noted that gun shows may not be the best place to do this because it would be akin to preaching to the choir. Yet among gun owners, how many actually know they have the right to OC? Perhaps not so many as we might suppose. The incident where I met a CC'er in Walmart the other evening is illustrative. He had no idea open carry was legal here. How many other gun owners are oblivious to their right to carry openly without a permit? So I am not apt to discard the notion out of hand, but there may be other avenues of approach that might be good too. Like the People's Fair in Denver. Set up a little booth and hand out pamphlets and talk with folks who come by or appear interested. Similar events take place in other towns along the front range, and may provide an opportunity for folks to meet OC'ers in the flesh, on common ground, and find out what manner of people we are. Find out first hand that we are reasonable, responsible and respectful people just like they are. After all, I'm pretty sure their attitude have been shaped by media and other sources to regard us with a jaundiced eye. How can that misinformation be dispelled but by accurate information, and how better to transmit that information than person to person contact?

In any event, I'd like to see OC more accepted here in Colorado, and for OC'ers and Police departments to have a better understanding of one another. I noticed that Jefferson County has a thing they call "Coffee with a Cop!" This is a program to give an opportunity for citizens to meet with a county deputy at a coffee shop and sit down to discuss matters of concern to them. Would it not be terrific if all police agencies did this so we could cultivate understanding rather than suspicion and mistrust on both sides?

Anyhow, there is much we can do, and I'll hope that we can take up some of this in the coming days. Right now, I'll be looking at pamphlets to see what other states are doing, and see if we can adapt some of that for our own OC community.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

JamesB

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
703
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
WOW

Just look at what happens when you spend two days doing homework and not responsibly reading the forums as I should. Explosive response.

Pamphlets, great idea. I've tried making some up in the past but I always end up trying to put too much stuff on them and so it ends up either in a tiny font or three pages long. I'd love to distribute some good ones for someone else though.

Business cards: this website and RMGO are both listed on my personal one.

NO guns = no money cards for businesses can be found on rmgo website and can be yours for the price of an email or phone call
http://www.rmgo.org/banning-businesses

t-shirts (possibly with the words of the second amendment)
can also be had from RMGO they come in blue, pink, or black.
 

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bogidu

Guest
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
120
Location
Pueblo West, Colorado, USA
I'll chime in, at least for agreement. I only check in here every couple of months probably because I do OC and have never had an issue with it. In Colorado it is our right to carry them and that seems to be how the public and law enforcement in my area view it. I grew up in Alaska and like others view firearms as tools and not gangbanger toys or any other fear inducing stupidity. If I did have any sort of issues with leo's or felt this right was being infringed upon, I would probably be more active in these forums and be more publicly vocal about it.

That's my 2¢
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
In Colorado it is our right to carry them and that seems to be how the public and law enforcement in my area view it. If I did have any sort of issues with leo's or felt this right was being infringed upon, I would probably be more active in these forums and be more publicly vocal about it.

That's my 2¢

Howdy Folks!
My concern isn't so much about a negative LEO encounter, as has been demonstrated, those happen very infrequently in Colorado.
What my primary focus is, in regard to OC, that the general public seems to be unaware of this right they possess, and perhaps to promote open carry in our state and on this forum for fellow Coloradoans.

A couple of examples being the CCW holder I ran into at Walmart who was totally surprised to learn that OC was legal in Colorado. I'd have figured they'd mention this in his CCW class, but evidently, they don't speak of it at all. They surely did not in the class I took either.

Another was a citizen at a small convenience store near Sterling who asked why I was carrying a sidearm.
Then there were two nice elderly ladies at Tires Plus who wondered why I open carried my weapon.

Before I bought my first pistol, I had no idea I could legally open carry my weapon. The folks at the gun shop never mentioned it, and when I subsequently learned of it through finding the OCDO forum, they actually discouraged me from doing so stating that Aurora cops could hassle me and possibly claim a brandishing charge. This hasn't panned out as true in my experience, as I carry openly all over Aurora, and none of the LEOs has bothered me in the least.

So these things beg the question: How can we raise awareness, not just of the general public or LEOs about open carry, but also gun owners who seem to have no idea that open carry is legal? In so doing, how can this help to raise awareness of the Colorado board of OCDO? Do we have an incentive to promote OCDO and our right to open carry? If we do not promote open carry, is it likely the only voice they'll hear on the subject will come from anti's, and subsequent efforts to control guns in Colorado be more likely when citizens have never heard the other side of the story from us?

These seem to me like valid questions that we might consider, and how we may have a positive influence on our fellow Coloradoans.
That's the point of this thread. What can we do, if anything should be done, to further our own cause?
And if we don't promote our cause, who will?

The old adage: "Use it or lose it" may apply here. If some anti organization gets the idea that nobody would mind too much if they advance a new piece of legislation to limit or eliminate open carry, will the public have any information apart from what they'd get from that side of the fence? After all, we are few, and they are many. We are few because many do not know they have this right to begin with. As I said earlier, I didn't know I had this right until I stumbled onto OCDO.

So along with you guys, maybe we can figure some ways to promote this freedom we enjoy and in so doing, ensure we have that freedom in the future.

Example: Several of us volunteerr to serve at an aid station during the Boulder-Boulder, handing out water and erg to runners (better than 20,000 of them) while OC'ing. Banner on the table promoting Open Carry.Org. Think of that: 20,000 folks see a group of armed citizens helping out at a local event. They see us carrying, and helping out. Positive image they never had before. This is but one example.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

mahkagari

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
, ,
What can we do, if anything should be done, to further our own cause?
And if we don't promote our cause, who will?

The old adage: "Use it or lose it" may apply here. If some anti organization gets the idea that nobody would mind too much if they advance a new piece of legislation to limit or eliminate open carry, will the public have any information apart from what they'd get from that side of the fence?

First thing is to answer the first part of your question. DOES anything need to be done? We don't have LEOs flipping out left, right, and center. There's a few LEOs who are unaware of the law and a few jurisdictions that are OC-unfriendly. Do you want to do preemptive education? Start with calling the county sheriffs and asking their stance on OC. Ask them if the fact that OC is legal is covered in their training. Then move on to the municipal PDs. If they answer anything other than "We discourage it", then what's to be done?

But that's a good question there. WHAT is our cause that we're trying to further? To educate people they have the right? To get people to OC so we don't lose the right to do so? To stop the hoplophobia of seeing people armed? IMO, neither seems a huge issue in CO.

If you're concerned what some anti organization would do, we should start with where those things are being attacked. When Longmont's municipal code was moving to ban OC in their buildings, how many people did more than say "that sucks, glad I don't live there"? How many people called Longmont city council and just politely said "the law would restrict people's rights with no increase in safety and would in fact decrease citizen saftey on their way to and from municipal buildings"? How many have done the same with the CSU campus ban? Who called and congratulated Sheriff Alderden on his stance? Everyone who has called their elected official over the CU gun ban (which is decided at a state level), please raise your hand.

OC is much less of an issue where it's not being directly attacked. It seems on par with going to Wash Park in Denver and stopping every jogger to say "You know you can fish here right? You should fish here. If you fish you should fish here! If you don't fish here, they might take away fishing here. It's totally legal to fish here! Do you have a fishing license? Then fish here. If you fish with your kids, they don't need a license. Bring them to fish here. Don't you want your kids to fish? You can eat the fish you catch. You don't have to throw them back. No restrictions on fish hooks, so how about you fish here? Go get your pole, you can fish today! You can totally fish here right now and have fish for dinner! Hey...do you even like fishing? What do you mean 'Not anymore'?"

I'm more of a grassroots kind of guy. Just be a nice guy and exercise your rights. Lead by example. See if OCDO has business cards/brochures. Make your own. Pass them out to people who ask you about it.
 
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M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
First thing is to answer the first part of your question. DOES anything need to be done?

I'm more of a grassroots kind of guy. Just be a nice guy and exercise your rights. Lead by example. See if OCDO has business cards/brochures. Make your own. Pass them out to people who ask you about it.

Howdy Mahkagari!
Does anything need to be done? That's a good question.
Going back just a bit, how many gun owners know they can carry open?
Of the very few who carry concealed that I've met seemed unaware that open carry is legal, the question is why they don't know?
I think that may be something worth addressing and a reason to promote open carry among other gun owners.
If they ain't got this particular bit of information, how else are they likely to learn of it unless we share that information with them.
Don't think 9news will do any special reports on open carry, and am pretty sure they won't read about open carry being legal in the newspaper. And it is also unlikely they will learn of open carry from their local LEA.

Then there are our fellow citizens who are blissfully unaware that open carrying of a firearm is legal.
Hence, we get that ever popular question: "Why do you have a gun?"
Evidently, there are quite a few folks in our state who are not informed this is a right we share in Colorado.
So, a business card or pamphlet that can be handed to someone asking about open carry might prove helpful.

I think it might be instructive to take a survey to learn what percentage of folks in Colorado know about open carry.
Perhaps I'll do that as a sociological effort one of these days. Also find out their general attitude toward guns.

The simple fact that we have quite a few businesses in Colorado that don't allow open carry is evidence that some of our fellow Coloradoans do not know much about the topic, if anything at all. Visiting with them in person and perhaps sharing some literature might not change their mind, but you never know... it might!

These are just a few considerations I've been mulling over.

Thanks for the discussion.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

mahkagari

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
, ,
Does anything need to be done? That's a good question.
Going back just a bit, how many gun owners know they can carry open?
Of the very few who carry concealed that I've met seemed unaware that open carry is legal, the question is why they don't know?
I think that may be something worth addressing and a reason to promote open carry among other gun owners.

I'd be in favor of promoting carry "at all". It would be good if people knew that they could OC w/o the hassle of a CCW on top of having the latter option for convenience's sake.

I'm in it for personal defense, though. I don't want people carrying for the sake of carrying. I want it known that people in CO legally carry to defend themselves so Thugs, make your trade elsewhere. I was reading the below article about Michigan going from "may issue" to "shall issue" and there being no "blood in the streets" prophecies coming true. For all of CO's pride in our "Make My Day" law, Michigan's CCW holder rate is nearly 10 times Colorado's. It's worth noting there's no clear result in crime rising or falling, however.

http://www.freep.com/article/201107...re-gun-shy?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
PikePeakMtnMan made a pamphlet with a bunch of info on it for handing out. I've given quite a few out. I'll post a link to the thread.

Howdy Beau!
Thank you for that. You truly are one of the good guys. Much obliged to ya!

I'll check it out after I get done gushing praise for your providing the info!

Meanwhile, I haven't seen the answer to an earlier question...
Where have you been hiding lately? Haven't seen you around much.
Hope all is well!

Thanks again for posting that link. I enjoyed meeting you in the Springs, and hope we break bread again one fine day.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

DinFreemont

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
53
Location
Freemont County, CO
I'm in it for personal defense, though. I don't want people carrying for the sake of carrying.

I carry for “political reasons” (if I were to put a label on it) I don’t actually feel all that much of a need outside of the reality of coyotes, bear and the possibility of a criminal (and down here that is relatively few).

There is also an element of responsibility for oneself and others for defense, but by and large it more fits into “it is a right - use it or lose it” than any real fear of criminal activity.
 

Beau

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
672
Location
East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
Howdy Beau!
Thank you for that. You truly are one of the good guys. Much obliged to ya!

I'll check it out after I get done gushing praise for your providing the info!

Meanwhile, I haven't seen the answer to an earlier question...
Where have you been hiding lately? Haven't seen you around much.
Hope all is well!


Blessings,
M-Taliesin

I can't tell if those first two lines are sarcasm or not. As to where I've been hiding; the new job takes a lot of my time. I've been putting in around 80 hours a week. I've been around, just been to tired to post much.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
I can't tell if those first two lines are sarcasm or not. As to where I've been hiding; the new job takes a lot of my time. I've been putting in around 80 hours a week. I've been around, just been to tired to post much.

Howdy Amigo!
Nope, my comments were totally sincere.
When I go sarcastic, most folks don't need to wonder! It gets pretty obvious.
But you are one of the good guys! I surely do appreciate ya!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 
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