If a Virginia legal defense fund were established, how should it be administered

Just looking for ideas..

I'm working on that. It'll be a nonprofit, tax-exempt entity designed to foster the provision of legal services to those who would otherwise be unable, in defense of certain kinds of activities involving the ownership, possession, and use of firearms. It will also serve a public education function, possibly including training in the defensive use of firearms. I've been working on getting some real estate in Fauquier Co. with suitable buildings already in place for that purpose.

You'll notice that I'm assuming I'm taking charge of that. That assumption is due to the phrase, "Virginia Legal Defense" in the question, a phrase that is a Virginia registered trademark belonging to guess-who.

I'll need all the help I can get with that, though.

user said:

I'm working on that. It'll be a nonprofit, tax-exempt entity designed to foster the provision of legal services to those who would otherwise be unable, in defense of certain kinds of activities involving the ownership, possession, and use of firearms. It will also serve a public education function, possibly including training in the defensive use of firearms. I've been working on getting some real estate in Fauquier Co. with suitable buildings already in place for that purpose.

You'll notice that I'm assuming I'm taking charge of that. That assumption is due to the phrase, "Virginia Legal Defense" in the question, a phrase that is a Virginia registered trademark belonging to guess-who.

I'll need all the help I can get with that, though.

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User,

We can change the name to Virginia Money For People Who Get Into Legal Trouble During The Course Of Lawful Use Or Carry Of A Firearm Defense Fund (VMFPWGILTDTCOLUOCOAFDF)

On a serious note, what of help would you need, beside monetary donations?

thebigsd said:

User,

We can change the name to Virginia Money For People Who Get Into Legal Trouble During The Course Of Lawful Use Or Carry Of A Firearm Defense Fund (VMFPWGILTDTCOLUOCOAFDF)

On a serious note, what of help would you need, beside monetary donations?

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Leave the name as it is,
I can't think of a better administrator.

user said:

I'm working on that. It'll be a nonprofit, tax-exempt entity designed to foster the provision of legal services to those who would otherwise be unable, in defense of certain kinds of activities involving the ownership, possession, and use of firearms. It will also serve a public education function, possibly including training in the defensive use of firearms. I've been working on getting some real estate in Fauquier Co. with suitable buildings already in place for that purpose.
.

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That will make quite a package - covers a lot of bases.

I'd like to hear more when the time is right.

I'm thinking of setting it up as a 501(c) nonstock corporation. The property in Fauquier is subject to litigation, which I have yet to initiate. I'll keep you posted.

I'm just talking out of my empty head here. I don't know if this would be either a) legal, or b) ethical.

Could some sort of an investment company be set up to do this? Investors would provide the capital to start up and fund selective litigation projects for little or no up-front charge to the victims, where the cases were strong for recovering real and punitive damages from rogue incidents and local governments or authorities concerning violations of people's rights...

After covering the traditional legal costs that such litigation normally does all the time, the victims would be awarded their real damages, but the "company" would take a cut of the punitive damages, from which subsequent cases could be funded, and the investors would be paid dividends, etc.

Crazy?

TFred

TFred said:

I'm just talking out of my empty head here. I don't know if this would be either a) legal, or b) ethical.

Could some sort of an investment company be set up to do this? Investors would provide the capital to start up and fund selective litigation projects for little or no up-front charge to the victims, where the cases were strong for recovering real and punitive damages from rogue incidents and local governments or authorities concerning violations of people's rights...

After covering the traditional legal costs that such litigation normally does all the time, the victims would be awarded their real damages, but the "company" would take a cut of the punitive damages, from which subsequent cases could be funded, and the investors would be paid dividends, etc.

Crazy?

TFred

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Lawsuits For Profit, Inc. It's motto could be "You're gonna like the way your wallet looks. I guarantee it."

The "Company" taking a cut of the proceeds/damages? Isn't that essentially what PI attorneys do now?

2a4all said:

Lawsuits For Profit, Inc. It's motto could be "You're gonna like the way your wallet looks. I guarantee it."

The "Company" taking a cut of the proceeds/damages? Isn't that essentially what PI attorneys do now?

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All jokes aside - this is serious business that User is considering.

Not only could this benefit those that would not otherwise be able to afford representation, but also thereby all freedom loving Virginians.

Grapeshot said:

All jokes aside - this is serious business that User is considering.

Not only could this benefit those that would not otherwise be able to afford representation, but also thereby all freedom loving Virginians.

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And I didn't mean for my question to demean or belittle that fact, I hope that is not how it was perceived. As I said, just talking out loud, but someone would have to front some resources to get something like this started. Whether it's a person or a group of people, unorganized or organized into a LLC or something... that's all I was wondering.

TFred

TFred said:

I'm just talking out of my empty head here. ...

Crazy?

TFred

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QFT


Couldn't resist.

TFred said:

After covering the traditional legal costs that such litigation normally does all the time, the victims would be awarded their real damages, but the "company" would take a cut of the punitive damages, from which subsequent cases could be funded, and the investors would be paid dividends, etc.

TFred

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Sounds like regularized ambulance chasing to me.

TFred said:

And I didn't mean for my question to demean or belittle that fact, I hope that is not how it was perceived. As I said, just talking out loud, but someone would have to front some resources to get something like this started. Whether it's a person or a group of people, unorganized or organized into a LLC or something... that's all I was wondering.

TFred

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Funding it is the easy part TFred.
Administering it properly is another. Ever know anyone that got legal help from the NRA? There aren't many.
Deciding who is worthy and who is not is a monumental chore. Skidmark would be worthy but would a fellow who pumped 6 rounds in his neighbor for oogling his wife?

How about a middle of the roader....someone that was afraid to walk across campus and stuck a 40 in his/her pocket without a permit?

Some one or ones, has to decide these things.

peter nap said:

Funding it is the easy part TFred.
Administering it properly is another. Ever know anyone that got legal help from the NRA? There aren't many.
Deciding who is worthy and who is not is a monumental chore. Skidmark would be worthy but would a fellow who pumped 6 rounds in his neighbor for oogling his wife?

How about a middle of the roader....someone that was afraid to walk across campus and stuck a 40 in his/her pocket without a permit?

Some one or ones, has to decide these things.

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NRA seems to pick cases that advance their agenda, not cases based on the need of the victim. And that is certainly their prerogative.

Your point is well taken.

ETA: Any such effort would probably be well-served to publish a criteria, so that those decisions would not appear to be arbitrary or subjective.

TFred

TFred said:

I'm just talking out of my empty head here. I don't know if this would be either a) legal, or b) ethical.

Could some sort of an investment company be set up to do this? Investors would provide the capital to start up and fund selective litigation projects for little or no up-front charge to the victims, where the cases were strong for recovering real and punitive damages from rogue incidents and local governments or authorities concerning violations of people's rights...

After covering the traditional legal costs that such litigation normally does all the time, the victims would be awarded their real damages, but the "company" would take a cut of the punitive damages, from which subsequent cases could be funded, and the investors would be paid dividends, etc.

Crazy?

TFred

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I suggested this years ago during the Danbus Troubles :^) !!!!

"Good, I could use the money" - Danbus, after being threatened with arrest for legally carrying.....

peter nap said:

Funding it is the easy part TFred.
Administering it properly is another. Ever know anyone that got legal help from the NRA? There aren't many.
Deciding who is worthy and who is not is a monumental chore. Skidmark would be worthy but would a fellow who pumped 6 rounds in his neighbor for oogling his wife?

How about a middle of the roader....someone that was afraid to walk across campus and stuck a 40 in his/her pocket without a permit?

Some one or ones, has to decide these things.

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This seems to be the biggest problem to me.
1) There are those who "try" to be law abiding but run afoul of the system.
2) There are those that "are" law abiding and a foul-system runs them over.
3) Then there are simple criminals.

I would think that the first two would deserve consideration and even the ones that break "bad" laws to try to change the law.

Being in Southern VA how would a NoVA office and staff handle the entire state? Hopefully case-load would be low but it seems like there are waves of incidents where 2-3 are running at the same time in different geographies.

I think any deciding of cases to pursue would have to be done by some kind of committee. Perhaps five members and the decisions would have to be unanimous. Or ten members, five permanent and five rotating, majority rules. I guess my point is that the decision can't be up to a single person.

A lot of the ground rules might depend heavily on who is putting up the "seed" money, time and effort.

When the cost of defending can run into the thousands and even 10s of thousands sometimes, there are other considerations.

Sure there are some nickel (500.00)and dime (1,000.00) cases, but pleading them out is NOT the answer either.

Know anyone that might like to make a donation of a million or so to get really get this going?

I wish WA would do the same. Hey User - hot enough there for ya? (We might hit 70 tomorrow!)

TFred said:

I'm just talking out of my empty head here. I don't know if this would be either a) legal, or b) ethical.

Could some sort of an investment company be set up to do this? Investors would provide the capital to start up and fund selective litigation projects for little or no up-front charge to the victims, where the cases were strong for recovering real and punitive damages from rogue incidents and local governments or authorities concerning violations of people's rights...

After covering the traditional legal costs that such litigation normally does all the time, the victims would be awarded their real damages, but the "company" would take a cut of the punitive damages, from which subsequent cases could be funded, and the investors would be paid dividends, etc.

Crazy?

TFred

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Yeah, that would be illegal in Virginia. These things you see advertised on TV that tell you there won't be any costs or expenses to the client if the litigation craps out are per-se illegal. There are states that allow such stuff and even Virginia has liberalized a bit since the early common law days. The theory is that if we allow people with no other interest to fund litigation and take the risk of nonpayment, then there's going to be all sorts of unwashed rabble being used as straw-man litigants purely to extort money from innocent wealth-holders. It'll open the flood-gates of litigation and all hell will break loose! There was quite an extended argument when Virginia was considering whether or not to allow contingent-fee cases. It's still illegal for a non-party to fund the costs of litigation (filing fees, service of process, court reporters, investigators, etc.).

Also, personal rights in litigation cannot be assigned. You can sell your right to sue under a contract, but not for false arrest.

On the other hand, I can see a loan arrangement with promissory notes (perhaps secured by the potential judgments from back-atcha causes of action) working. That would help in another way, too. I closed my office in Fairfax years ago because I kept getting "walk-ins" with essentially the same deal:
1. I want justice.
2. I want it on my terms.
3. I want it NOW.
4. I want it to be free.
5. And I want YOU to get it for me because of the principles and cause of Justice.

A loan arrangement would help to minimize nonsense like that.