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OC encounter with ex marine Policeman - MOVED TO CALIFORNIA

HeesBonafide

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SS required or not

My social security number is not on my Wyoming Driver's License, not on my Washington State ID card, not on my Washington CPL, and not even on my new Active Duty Military ID Card. So again, what statute requires me to provide it to a LEO who is issuing me a citation?

Our SS# is the last resort of protection of our identity and I will tell you, that if a law enforcement person ever asks me for my SS#, I don't care what the law is (or isn't), I wll not provide it.

I may go to jail, and am willing to do so; I do NOT provide my SS# to anyone unless it is absolutely necessary.
 

aadvark

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HeesBonaFided:

You do NOT have to Give Your Social Security Number to Anyone, at any Time, for any Reason!

EXCEPTION: The United States Federal Privacy Act Law of 1974 Enumerates Exceptions to The aforementioned Statement.

aadvark
 
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Dave_pro2a

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My social security number is not on my Wyoming Driver's License, not on my Washington State ID card, not on my Washington CPL, and not even on my new Active Duty Military ID Card. So again, what statute requires me to provide it to a LEO who is issuing me a citation?

Wyoming, meet the Real ID act. Good luck with that.

I screwed you on civil rights.
Helped bankrupt this nation.
Handed the democrats the throne.
Got us into a state or perpetual unwinnable war.
And I ate this kitten.

images


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act#Document_Verification_Requirements said:
Section 37.11(c) of the DHS final rule allows the states to accept several types of documents as proof of social security number: a social security card, a W-2 form, an SSA-1099 form, a non-SSA-1099 form, or a pay stub bearing the applicant's name and SSN. However, the states are not required to verify the validity of these documents directly with their issuers (e.g. with the employer that issued a W-2 form or a pay stub). Instead, the DHS rule requires the states to verify the validity, and its match with the name given, of the social security number itself, via electronically querying the Social Security On-Line Verification (SSOLV) database managed by the Social Security Administration.
 
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amlevin

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Ok. So where is the statute that says I have to provide my social security # to a police officer on the street, or to be booked into jail for not giving it to them on the street? I still haven't seen one.

Not here in Washington State maybe but the ability for the State to do so is there in Federal Law. See again the list I provided from Social Security Administration's site. Just because someone doesn't, doesn't mean they can't.

BTW, When did the Military do away with SSN's as Service Numbers? Right about the time of the "Birthday Draft Lottery" Service Numbers became SSN's. I remember as recently as last July seeing it used on Military ID while working in a retail store (had to provide Mil. ID for Mil. discount). When did this change??
 

Dave_pro2a

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Ok. So where is the statute that says I have to provide my social security # to a police officer on the street, or to be booked into jail for not giving it to them on the street? I still haven't seen one.

Didn't say there was one.

But if your state license is linked to your SS# in the database, then it's a moot point.

Your ccw status isn't 'on' your license either, but it's linked to it. Might as well be on there for all intents and purposes.

AFAIK the Real ID act has not been fully implemented. Coming soon to a state near you, or lose your Federal Highway funding (aka, using your own tax money to extort the State to diminish your rights).
 
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Badger Johnson

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Stopping an OC-er who is obviously a normal citizen to do an e-check is about as sensible as checking mattresses to see if you've removed the 'do not remove under penalty of law tag'.

THERE IS NO CRIME HERE. At most there's forgetfulness. What is the crime other than a 'crime created by statute'? It's like making it illegal to wear blue pants on Mondays. A bullet in a chamber is doing nobody any harm, by itself. Officers supporting this travesty should be ashamed of themselves and should, instead, busy themselves preventing REAL crime, which is probably happening down the street, while they dilly-dally around doing Barney Fife 'e-checks'.
 
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amlevin

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http://www.triwest.com/en/provider/...numbers-being-removed-from-military-id-cards/

The original post that amzbrady posted that started this whole discussion, "Refresh, We are not required to show ID, if asked are we required to say our name, address, birthdate, social security #." is, according to current Washington state law, in error. It doesn't matter what Federal law ALLOWS. What matters is what state law REQUIRES. And Washington state law does NOT require me to divulge my social security number, so I'm not going to.

Thanks for the link. I thought this was a new happening. All of us that had "Service Numbers" used to call the "Fresh Fish" that had SSN's for ID, "Social Security Soldiers".

BTW, since Washington State has no "Stop and ID Law" does one even have to give a name, etc, when stopped for anything other than a traffic infraction? In the event of a "Terry Stop" with valid cause, I can see the need to give this info but otherwise????
 
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Dave_pro2a

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You are not required to identify yourself to an officer until such point when he/she is going to actually write the citation or for more than a misdemeanor they place you under custodial arrest. Of course, you have to produce your CPL if they demand it and you are carrying it, and you have to present your driver's license if an officer asks for it when you are operating a motor vehcile. Also, there is no penalty associated with refusing to identifiy yourself for the citation other than you can be detained until they establish your identity.

Give'em 5 more years.
 

amzbrady

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wow, I didnt ask any question. I just said that we should have something like an Open Carry "etiquette" sticky with some general concise info in laymens terms, with RCW's to back info up, for the newbies that come on board. You know, a sticky right before the pamphlet page that says read this first. Kind of like the freakwently asked questions sticky but not so jumbled up with long paragraphs. Kind of a mission statement with answers to other questions, that get asked alot by newbiew but at times after they have had an encounter.

One of the big ones is during encounters.
Do you have to give your name? Do you have to show iD? Do you even have to acknowledge the police? Do you have to leave a store if they tell you to, but have had no contact with any of the employees? During a contact you should ask, am I under arrest or being detained? If they say no do you have the right to just walk away? If they disarm you for your safety be sure to be very clear that you object to the siezure of your firearm and do NOT conscent to a search. Should you call ahead to see if open carry is allowed at a business you will be going to? Open carriers need to conduct themselves in a mature manner showing we do not carry to intimidate, just for self defense, and for the most part if not pushed we are not A$$holes.

These are questions that we see alot of, or even not so much questions, just problems people have, and had they had the correct information, could have handled thier encounters differently. It is great to have the RCW's listed so we can read miles of paragraphs, but what is better is a start with a basic, concise answer followed by the info needed to back up and research. Sometimes a yes or no question never gets just a simple yes or no, but 3 pages of arguementative quotes on everything but what the post started with (which can be fun too). I'm just thinking of some of the new people.

That is what I was saying, I didnt mean to get the social security administration involved.
 
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