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Thread: Asked to Disarm at IDFG Bowhunter Education Class - Refused

  1. #101
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangerhalo View Post
    Fish and game do not like loaded weapons in classes for very obvious reasons ......Not only was this dangerous, it put every person in that classroom at risk
    Quote Originally Posted by Rangerhalo View Post
    Idaho fish and Game DO NOT want loaded firearms in the hunter education classrooms...PERIOD......for obvious reasons...nobody knew this individual...holstered or not its loaded...Handguns should not be loased in classrooms with kids in them...or anyone else for that matter....for OBVIOUS safety reasons...
    For the slower ones among us (me) and since this clown will probably not be back, can someone tell me what these obvious reasons are? Being a dolt, I need the obvious pointed out to me apparently.

    Is it the gun will jump out of it's holster and shoot someone?
    Is it the person wearing the gun may hear Kid Rock's "Cowboy" playing over the radio and have the uncontrollable urge to start shooting into the sky?

    What am I missing?
    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force. -Ayn Rand

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    For the slower ones among us (me) and since this clown will probably not be back, can someone tell me what these obvious reasons are? Being a dolt, I need the obvious pointed out to me apparently.

    Is it the gun will jump out of it's holster and shoot someone?
    Is it the person wearing the gun may hear Kid Rock's "Cowboy" playing over the radio and have the uncontrollable urge to start shooting into the sky?

    What am I missing?
    I'll say it... What are you missing? Just an emotional irrational phobic fear of an inanimate object. LOL
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  3. #103
    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    Some interesting reading...


    Wonder what rangerhalo would do if 3 or 4 OCers took his course?
    Last edited by okiebryan; 09-09-2012 at 01:35 AM.

  4. #104
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan View Post
    Some interesting reading...


    Wonder what rangerhalo would do if 3 or 4 OCers took his course?
    Might possibly induce the immediate, spontaneous evacuation of his lower gastric intestinal tract into his hat.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

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    firing pins removed

    This is my first reply on my first day with open carry so if I screw it up please take it easy. I'm a concealed carry permit holder and pro open carry and gun in general. I had to take a hunter safety course here in northern virginia a couple seasons back because you can't grandfather it in for hunting on military bases. but anyway, we were told to not bring live ammo. no biggie right. I asked the instructors why there were holes drilled through the stocks of the firearms we were handling. They explained that the firing pins had been removed because they had some moon bats bring ammo to slip into the firearms in hopes of an accident. That gave me the frikken willies. I don't know if this had something to do with the instructor wanting this guy to clear his weapon or not. Could this be "obvious reason". I would hope they don't have as many liberal moonbats in Idaho because I'd like to visit there some day.

  6. #106
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macko View Post
    This is my first reply on my first day with open carry so if I screw it up please take it easy. I'm a concealed carry permit holder and pro open carry and gun in general. I had to take a hunter safety course here in northern virginia a couple seasons back because you can't grandfather it in for hunting on military bases. but anyway, we were told to not bring live ammo. no biggie right. I asked the instructors why there were holes drilled through the stocks of the firearms we were handling. They explained that the firing pins had been removed because they had some moon bats bring ammo to slip into the firearms in hopes of an accident. That gave me the frikken willies. I don't know if this had something to do with the instructor wanting this guy to clear his weapon or not. Could this be "obvious reason". I would hope they don't have as many liberal moonbats in Idaho because I'd like to visit there some day.
    Welcome to the forum Mr. Macko.

    A lot of bad information gets passed around and some pointless things are done in the name of "common sense" safety - why drill holes in the stock of a training rifle?

    And someone "hoping for an accident" ???? Really? - there is gross distortion I think.

    Let's not forget that this was a bow hunting class. The only rule perhaps in order was "do not handle your gun."

    I am confused as to why you needed new proof of competency as most (all?) military installations require such to begin with in order to hunt - meaning you already would have had the necessary training, which never expires. So yes it is "grandfathered".
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Welcome to the forum Mr. Macko.

    A lot of bad information gets passed around and some pointless things are done in the name of "common sense" safety - why drill holes in the stock of a training rifle?

    And someone "hoping for an accident" ???? Really? - there is gross distortion I think.

    Let's not forget that this was a bow hunting class. The only rule perhaps in order was "do not handle your gun."

    I am confused as to why you needed new proof of competency as most (all?) military installations require such to begin with in order to hunt - meaning you already would have had the necessary training, which never expires. So yes it is "grandfathered".
    They told me that the holes were drilled in the stocks to signify that the firing pins had been removed.
    They told me that live ammo had been loaded into the training weapons. Why would someone do that? my assumption that it was mal intent, over assumption perhaps. Gross distortion, I think not. Anyway I'm only relating what they told me.

    I've been hunting since before Hunter Safety courses were required. In VA if you've had a hunting license before a certain year you're not required to have attended the course. That is why I use the term grandfathered. A hunting trip to Ft. Benning was cut short when I found out it was required regardless of personal history. This was my first trip to hunt on a military base since the '70's so my fault for not doing my homework. I have since aquired the Safety course certificate and the IBEP so I'm covered.

  8. #108
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    Welcome to the forum Mr. Macko.

    A lot of bad information gets passed around and some pointless things are done in the name of "common sense" safety - why drill holes in the stock of a training rifle?

    And someone "hoping for an accident" ???? Really? - there is gross distortion I think.

    Let's not forget that this was a bow hunting class. The only rule perhaps in order was "do not handle your gun."

    I am confused as to why you needed new proof of competency as most (all?) military installations require such to begin with in order to hunt - meaning you already would have had the necessary training, which never expires. So yes it is "grandfathered".
    Quote Originally Posted by macko View Post
    They told me that the holes were drilled in the stocks to signify that the firing pins had been removed.
    They told me that live ammo had been loaded into the training weapons. Why would someone do that? my assumption that it was mal intent, over assumption perhaps. Gross distortion, I think not. Anyway I'm only relating what they told me.

    I've been hunting since before Hunter Safety courses were required. In VA if you've had a hunting license before a certain year you're not required to have attended the course. That is why I use the term grandfathered. A hunting trip to Ft. Benning was cut short when I found out it was required regardless of personal history. This was my first trip to hunt on a military base since the '70's so my fault for not doing my homework. I have since aquired the Safety course certificate and the IBEP so I'm covered.
    You're changing my word application. What I said was a "gross distortion" was someone hoping for an accident - that would be no accident - it would be intentional.

    I have been hunting and training/teaching in Virginia for about 50 years and have never known re-certification to be required for a hunting license. In fact just having previously had a license is enough, even if it was 30 years ago. This may not be the case in other states. The only significant difference between my lifetime hunting license and one being renewed annually is that mine never goes inactive.

    If you are saying that Ft. Benning requires an annual Hunter Safety Course that would be news to me. I've never been so required.

    There are numerous ways to mark/identify a training gun that cannot be duplicated or faked and still leave the gun live.
    http://www.policemag.com/blog/traini...g-weapons.aspx
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

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  9. #109
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macko View Post
    They explained that the firing pins had been removed because they had some moon bats bring ammo to slip into the firearms in hopes of an accident.
    This sounds made up to be honest. The kind of thing people just say that might sound feasible to justify an overreaction.

    Just like the troll stating that had several NDs in there classes and that's way they have their rule.
    It's probably BS.
    Last edited by twoskinsonemanns; 09-09-2012 at 06:08 PM.
    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force. -Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    This sounds made up to be honest. The kind of thing people just say that might sound feasible to justify an overreaction.

    Just like the troll stating that had several NDs in there classes and that's way they have their rule.
    It's probably BS.
    I take this to mean that what they told me was made up and not that I made it up. I also said that I never took a hunter safety class prior to this. It wasn't a re-certification. I also agree that there are better ways than drilling a hole in a perfectly good firearm to show it doesn't have a firing pin but I don't know how that would keep someone from re-installing it. Here's a link to the requirements I ran up against. Prior to this I only had a hunting license. http://novaarchers.org/huntersed.html. I don't know if anyone is doubting me but maybe you can contact the instructors if you so desire. The course was held at Izaak Walton in Manassas 2010.

  11. #111
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macko View Post
    I take this to mean that what they told me was made up and not that I made it up. I also said that I never took a hunter safety class prior to this. It wasn't a re-certification. I also agree that there are better ways than drilling a hole in a perfectly good firearm to show it doesn't have a firing pin but I don't know how that would keep someone from re-installing it. Here's a link to the requirements I ran up against. Prior to this I only had a hunting license. http://novaarchers.org/huntersed.html. I don't know if anyone is doubting me but maybe you can contact the instructors if you so desire. The course was held at Izaak Walton in Manassas 2010.
    Not so much doubting you (some of the information being lost in the syntax) as talking about and sharing information. Things never do stay the same do they?

    Being old (lots of experience some think) only means that I am old, not that I know everything.

    Appreciate your input - I learned something new.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  12. #112
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    Thanks Grapeshot. Ya'll take er easy

  13. #113
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macko View Post
    I take this to mean that what they told me was made up and not that I made it up..
    Absolutely what I meant.
    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force. -Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You're changing my word application. What I said was a "gross distortion" was someone hoping for an accident - that would be no accident - it would be intentional.

    I have been hunting and training/teaching in Virginia for about 50 years and have never known re-certification to be required for a hunting license. In fact just having previously had a license is enough, even if it was 30 years ago. This may not be the case in other states. The only significant difference between my lifetime hunting license and one being renewed annually is that mine never goes inactive.

    If you are saying that Ft. Benning requires an annual Hunter Safety Course that would be news to me. I've never been so required.

    There are numerous ways to mark/identify a training gun that cannot be duplicated or faked and still leave the gun live.
    http://www.policemag.com/blog/traini...g-weapons.aspx
    Here in Huntsville, AL, Redstone Arsenal requires each hunter to have completed both a state (any state) hunting safety course (no grandfathering) plus their own hunting orientation. State requirements start at a certain year for a safety class (any state), you're grandfathered prior to that year. http://www.redstonemwr.com/recreatio...ng&fishing.php I don't believe it's required yearly but I don't hunt there so don't know.

    When I took the AL hunting safety course several years ago with my son, they had several deactivated guns and also required no ammo be brought to the class, but CC was exempted AFAIK. The course instructor (armed and uniformed AL F&G Warden) stated that they had had incidences in previous classes of anti-hunting/PETA types attempting to load firearms hoping to cause an accident. He declined to give details however, do have no real information other than that.

    OP, good on you for sticking to your guns! Personally, I hope someone takes this Sarah Brady wannabe to the woodshed, both personally and professionally.

    Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    The course instructor (armed and uniformed AL F&G Warden) stated that they had had incidences in previous classes of anti-hunting/PETA types attempting to load firearms hoping to cause an accident. He declined to give details however, do have no real information other than that.
    Scary when you think about it. I just don't understand the rationale that a gun is going to jump out of a holster and starting mowing people down. I wonder how many folks who where in the class had cc.

    Here in KS, KDWP was of the opinion that if it wasn't approved in regs, it was illegal. IE, hunting with a suppressor. Legislators had to make a law stating hunting with a suppressor was legal. They make their own rules, until they are slapped down. It was also illegal to CCW a pistol during firearms deer season, that was not a legal caliber for hunting deer. It was also illegal to ccw a pistol during bow season. The new law fixed all those issues. Not sure on legality of OC during bow season though. I normally cc, but fully support the right of oc.

  16. #116
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangerhalo View Post
    I guess its time i replied since im the one being accused. First of all lets set this straight , at no time did i tell this individual he couldnt carry a loaded firearm, i have a CCW....and am ex law enforcement. i am well aware of the laws. This clown decides to exagerate the issues greatly, understandable, you have a very insecure man carrying a loaded firearm to a Bowhunter education class....his reason Protection????!!!! FROM WHAT? What next let his kid carry a nine milli into kindergarten for show and tell? I have waited to post this in accordance with Fish and Game request, since its over and this individual basically made a fool of himself...i can now post. Fish and game do not like loaded weapons in classes for very obvious reasons and if i have to go into that, well you need more education on firearm safety....I at the time had the authority to pull the class because of this individuals silly actions, but i was not going to make 30 other people who wanted to bowhunt suffer through another year as these classes are limited. This kind of individual is the kind that give liberals of all kinds of something to hang on to, its hard enough to keep our firearms and carry much less have to deal with this kind of ignorance....his thought...hey its a hunting class ill go make a statement as if it was a frikking fashion statement. its ok pal....we all understand your small mans syndrome to have to carry a loaded firearm in a classroom to protect yourself. Not only was this dangerous, it put every person in that classroom at risk, nobody knew this guy or his training, in conclusion this was an attempt to defame a volunteer instructor who gives his free time to help others get what they need.....i dont get paid for this, i do it because i want to give back to all the hunting ive enjoyed in Idaho and wish to preserve our right to archery hunt in this state by teaching good hunting ethics safety and survival.....so as i can see it really bothered this clown .....i surely hope the anti gun people dont run into this guy....he would be their poster child as to why we shouldnt be allowed to carry, and if i was one of them i wouldnt blame them, this citizen is a poor example of why we should retain our right....Oh yeah by the way.....i am from California, great place to be from, And i am a combat vet who fought for the right to even be able to respond to this insecure individual.......hey next time maybe you can go to Chuck E Cheese and scare the mouse you just never know what he might pull on you.....unbelieveable. I am not employed by fish and game and this rebuttal is purely my opinion.....I will continue to teach as there was no reprimand, all i was told was next time ask them to leave if they dont shut the class down.....i think that pretty well sums it up....amazing when you hear both sides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangerhalo View Post
    Oh yeah by the way.....i am from California
    Well, that explains the anti-freedom attitude.

  18. #118
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    In my "bow hunting safety course" we had bows AND arrows in the classroom. Folks came out alive if I recall correctly.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  19. #119
    Regular Member CornfedinOhio's Avatar
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    Asked to Disarm at IDFG Bowhunter Education Class - Refused

    Class rooms are the pinnacle of safety. There's never any shootings there, except columbine, Georgia tech and Chardon to name a few.

    The obvious safety is not so obvious to me.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornfedinOhio View Post
    Class rooms are the pinnacle of safety. There's never any shootings there,....
    Or banks for that matter, or shopping malls, or city alleys, either; if you really want to play the odds.
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  21. #121
    Regular Member CornfedinOhio's Avatar
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    Asked to Disarm at IDFG Bowhunter Education Class - Refused

    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Here is a link of a person that would love to hear your thoughts............https://www.facebook.com/sarah.brady.330
    .....I clicked the wrong link. This wasn't aimed at self preservations post.

    I think teachers should be required to be armed. No active shooter event would ever take place at a school. If you want to be safe then carry every day. I find it odd you carry but your students shouldn't? Who made you god? What trait of magical judgment do you have?
    We are all created equal.
    We all have the right to self defense.

    The end result is he attended your class and shot no one. I think it shows amazing restraint on his part.
    Last edited by CornfedinOhio; 11-27-2012 at 08:21 PM.

  22. #122
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    Prepare to be overwhelmed

    History of school shootings in the United States.

    http://southernoklahoma.com/schoolshootings/
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc215
    Here in KS, KDWP was of the opinion that if it wasn't approved in regs, it was illegal. IE, hunting with a suppressor. Legislators had to make a law stating hunting with a suppressor was legal.

    The way laws work in the USA is that if something is not specifically made illegal, it's legal.
    If there's no law against something, it's legal.
    Whoever was interpreting the laws needs a refresher course.

    Show me the law that says it's legal to eat lasagna on Tues. night?
    Yet I did. Where are the cops?
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    The way laws work in the USA is that if something is not specifically made illegal, it's legal. ...
    Without seeing their hunting regulations, I can't determine if this is valid for this circumstance or not.

    Since hunting is a licensed activity, their hunting regulation may specify what a legal weapon is. If so, and if suppressors aren't mentioned, one can argue they are illegal for hunting.
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  25. #125
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kc215
    Here in KS, KDWP was of the opinion that if it wasn't approved in regs, it was illegal. IE, hunting with a suppressor. Legislators had to make a law stating hunting with a suppressor was legal.
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    The way laws work in the USA is that if something is not specifically made illegal, it's legal.
    If there's no law against something, it's legal.
    Whoever was interpreting the laws needs a refresher course.

    Show me the law that says it's legal to eat lasagna on Tues. night?
    Yet I did. Where are the cops?
    Gee, Toto MKEgal, I don't think we are in Kansas anymore

    Some huntng regulations state specifically what style/type of gun/tool may be used. All others are a violation. I grant you that use of a supressor might be a stretch with some regulations/laws.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

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