Asked to Disarm at IDFG Bowhunter Education Class - Refused

MAC702 · Jul 19, 2012

MKEgal said:
I think this would be a good time to apply the
Toolkit against online trolls

...

ETA: And lest we commit the Fallacy Fallacy, was there a part of your post that wasn't a fallacy, opinion, insult, etc. that we should pay attention to?
"this fallacy occurs when you completely discredit someone’s position simply because they used a fallacy when making their point."
I've tried to only point out & discredit your fallacies & explain why your opinions are not facts.

Wow.

If I've not told you before, I always enjoy your posts.

You, dear lady, are truly one of our best examples and best orators.

I wish I had your way with words.

ecocks · Jul 20, 2012

Rangerhalo said:
Bottom line through all the BS here....Idaho fish and Game DO NOT want loaded firearms in the hunter education classrooms...PERIOD......for obvious reasons...nobody knew this individual...holstered or not its loaded....nobody knew his training, or anything else about him ....it is the obvious right of the instructor in the classroom to ask the man to unlaod the firearm.....as far as me being rude.....well maybe i sense of humor isnt his cup of tea...to each is own....i am no where near anti gun and to assume so is very ignorant on your part......i am as pro gun as any one....i believe we have the right to own and carry....but i also believe in safety and prudence....somebody telling me that they are wearing a loaded firearm for safety in a bowhunter education class...Lame......so save the rhetoric.....the weapon should have not been loaded, and had no reason to even be there......call it strwmans argument...doubt my background....all that other BS you guys do in these forums to protect buddies and what have you.....Handguns should not be loased in classrooms with kids in them...or anyone else for that matter....for OBVIOUS safety reasons....and anyone that doesnt understand that i find disturbing if they carry....my point is made ....im out.

Nothing obvious about it to me nor millions of others.

"I am as pro-gun as anyone..."

For real? You believe that?

I am referring this thread to my state representative and senator for their considered comment as to the behavior of state agencies and their contractors.

Brion · Jul 20, 2012

Rangerhalo said:
I guess its time i replied since im the one being accused. First of all lets set this straight , at no time did i tell this individual he couldnt carry a loaded firearm, i have a CCW....and am ex law enforcement. i am well aware of the laws. This clown decides to exagerate the issues greatly, understandable, you have a very insecure man carrying a loaded firearm to a Bowhunter education class....his reason Protection????!!!! FROM WHAT? What next let his kid carry a nine milli into kindergarten for show and tell? I have waited to post this in accordance with Fish and Game request, since its over and this individual basically made a fool of himself...i can now post. Fish and game do not like loaded weapons in classes for very obvious reasons and if i have to go into that, well you need more education on firearm safety....I at the time had the authority to pull the class because of this individuals silly actions, but i was not going to make 30 other people who wanted to bowhunt suffer through another year as these classes are limited. This kind of individual is the kind that give liberals of all kinds of something to hang on to, its hard enough to keep our firearms and carry much less have to deal with this kind of ignorance....his thought...hey its a hunting class ill go make a statement as if it was a frikking fashion statement. its ok pal....we all understand your small mans syndrome to have to carry a loaded firearm in a classroom to protect yourself. Not only was this dangerous, it put every person in that classroom at risk, nobody knew this guy or his training, in conclusion this was an attempt to defame a volunteer instructor who gives his free time to help others get what they need.....i dont get paid for this, i do it because i want to give back to all the hunting ive enjoyed in Idaho and wish to preserve our right to archery hunt in this state by teaching good hunting ethics safety and survival.....so as i can see it really bothered this clown .....i surely hope the anti gun people dont run into this guy....he would be their poster child as to why we shouldnt be allowed to carry, and if i was one of them i wouldnt blame them, this citizen is a poor example of why we should retain our right....Oh yeah by the way.....i am from California, great place to be from, And i am a combat vet who fought for the right to even be able to respond to this insecure individual.......hey next time maybe you can go to Chuck E Cheese and scare the mouse you just never know what he might pull on you.....unbelieveable. I am not employed by fish and game and this rebuttal is purely my opinion.....I will continue to teach as there was no reprimand, all i was told was next time ask them to leave if they dont shut the class down.....i think that pretty well sums it up....amazing when you hear both sides.

How about this? I carry everywhere I am legaly allowed to. That being said, I wouldn't care what you think or feel about OC, nor would I care what other people think. I carry at Wal-mart, I carry at Fred Myer, I carry at Target, and all public places and government property that the law allows carry. In other words, if I am going to carry at the above locations and your class is on government property, guess what bub, I'm gonna carry. People say "Protection from what?" Some people probably had the same argument in Colorado, "A movie theather is a safe place, who would shoot up a movie theater?" Well...

You only have a foot to stand on had the location you chose to teach had been private property and the owner had banned weapons. Have a nice day.

mwaterous · Jul 20, 2012

MAC702 said:
In his defense, he did warn you at the outset that he was an ex-cop.

:monkey

Grapeshot · Jul 20, 2012

Originally Posted by MAC702

In his defense, he did warn you at the outset that he was an ex-cop.

mwaterous said:
:monkey

OK, but that apple has been removed from that barrel and he does not have the authority of the office any longer.

BigDeeeeeeee · Jul 20, 2012

Rangerhalo said:
"you have a very insecure man carrying a loaded firearm to a Bowhunter education class....his reason Protection????!!!! FROM WHAT?" "its ok pal....we all understand your small mans syndrome to have to carry a loaded firearm in a classroom to protect yourself. Not only was this dangerous, it put every person in that classroom at risk"

Replace "classroom" with movie theater and you should realize that without a crystal ball no one knows were or when you may need your weapon.

Today it's a movie theater but an IHOP, a military base, just out on the street, and yes even in the classroom lives could be saved if only some courageous person had a gun.

Fallschirjmäger · Jul 20, 2012

~My Gosh, who needs a loaded gun at a bow hunting class?~

Apparently the same people who might have wanted a loaded gun at a Waffle House, shopping mall, movie theater, in their house, driving down the road, or just walking in a park.

"It can't/won't happen here, is the worst form of self-delusion."

Grapeshot · Jul 20, 2012

Fallschirmjäger said:
~My Gosh, who needs a loaded gun at a bow hunting class?~

Apparently the same people who might have wanted a loaded gun at a Waffle House, shopping mall, movie theater, in their house, driving down the road, or just walking in a park.

"It can't/won't happen here, is the worst form of self-delusion."

It is only delusional when one thinks that way individually. When that thinking is forced on others, it is a despicable lie.

davidmcbeth · Jul 21, 2012

Rangerhalo said:
.Idaho fish and Game DO NOT want loaded firearms in the hunter education classrooms...PERIOD......for obvious reasons....

"obvious reasons" ... you mean that people have fear? Well, the OCer does not induce fear ... only the person who feels this state of mind creates it. Its like saying that black people create fear so the fish and game folks want to keep them out....

davidmcbeth · Jul 21, 2012

OC for ME said:
It's for the children!!!! What about the children???? Think of the children!!!!

What did George Carlin say about the children? I share his viewpoint.

tryintogetit · Jul 22, 2012

Kudo's

Fantastic dissection MKEgal.

Yaki · Jul 22, 2012

davidmcbeth said:
"obvious reasons" ... you mean that people have fear? Well, the OCer does not induce fear ... only the person who feels this state of mind creates it. Its like saying that black people create fear so the fish and game folks want to keep them out....

Had to drag us into this :lol:

ManInBlack · Sep 7, 2012

WOW!!!

I have been gone for a bit, but this is just too great! Thanks to everyone who countered Rangerhalo's (aka Terry Sisler's) baseless attacks.?

I think as far as the situation goes, the proof is in the pudding. Again, this is the final response I received from the Director of Hunter Education, Mr. Ron Fritz:

[h=1]FW: Incident at Hunter Education Center 7/28/2011[/h]

Personal
x

Fritz,Ron ron.fritz@idfg.idaho.gov

8/26/11

to me, Virgil, Sharon, Mike, Victoria, Dallas

Mr. XXXXX,

We will inform our volunteer instructors of the Deputy General’s determination regarding the lawful carrying of firearms.

Ron Fritz
State Hunter Education Program Coordinator
Idaho Department of Fish and Game
600 S. Walnut St.
PO Box 25
Boise, ID 83707-0025
Phone: (208) 287-2884
Fax: (208) 334-2148
Email: ron.fritz@idfg.idaho.gov
Visit us at: http://fishandgame.idaho.gov

From: XXXXX [mailto:XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 10:27 AM
To: Fritz,Ron
Cc: Moore,Virgil; Kiefer,Sharon; Keckler,Mike; Runnoe,Victoria; Burkhalter,W. Dallas
Subject: Re: Incident at Hunter Education Center 7/28/2011

Mr. Fritz,
Thank you for your response and acknowledgement of Idaho state law. However, I do have two other concerns which have not yet been addressed: 1) Will you brief your volunteers on the lawful carrying of firearms so that a similar incident does not happen to another citizen, and 2) what, if anything, do you have to say about the inappropriate and immature comments made by Mr. Sisler to a citizen customer who paid $38 to take the course?

Thank you for your time,
XXXXX
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Fritz,Ron <ron.fritz@idfg.idaho.gov> wrote:
Mr. XXXXX,

According to our Deputy Attorney General you do have a legal right to openly carry a firearm in our classroom. Please be aware that we have the utmost concern for safety in our classrooms. There have been several accidental firearm discharges in the past, which is why we request that no live ammunition be brought into our classrooms.

Please feel free to call me if you have any questions.

Ron Fritz
State Hunter Education Program Coordinator
Idaho Department of Fish and Game
600 S. Walnut St.
PO Box 25
Boise, ID 83707-0025
Phone: (208) 287-2884
Fax: (208) 334-2148
Email: ron.fritz@idfg.idaho.gov
Visit us at: http://fishandgame.idaho.gov

P.S.: Terry, I actually drew a pronghorn bowhunt down in the Owyhees, which starts in a few days. Guess I'm not on any kind of an IDFG blacklist. Wish me luck, and you take real good care now!

Grapeshot · Sep 7, 2012

Request that no live ammunition be brought to the classroom? Really!

With all due respect, that is not a paper weight on my belt.

davidmcbeth · Sep 7, 2012

Grapeshot said:
Request that no live ammunition be brought to the classroom? Really!

With all due respect, that is not a paper weight on my belt.

What a reply ! H-A-L-A-R-I-O-U-S :banana::banana::banana:

The circus IS in town.

Keep the faith !

darkside · Sep 7, 2012

all well and good

Congrats for getting idf&g to follow state law. But i noticed in the response that nothing
was said about the rudness and immature attitude of the volunteer. You have them on the ropes,
dont let up now.

keep fighting!

ManInBlack · Sep 7, 2012

At this point, the incident is over a year old, and I consider the matter to be settled. I have since OC'ed at the IDFG headquarters in Boise without incident.

I have come to understand that the absolute MOST we can expect from government is for it to follow the law; expecting it to be courteous about doing so is wishful thinking, setting oneself up for disappointment.

Thanks for the support!

papa bear · Sep 8, 2012

when were the "several discharges in class" done? dates, if you can please.

i know the poster isn't claiming this. i would like the person that wrote the letter to answer

JoeSparky · Sep 8, 2012

Grapeshot said:
Request that no live ammunition be brought to the classroom? Really!

With all due respect, that is not a paper weight on my belt.

Request all they want.... It is the demand that one does NOT bring live ammunition into the classroom that violates the rights and law!

self preservation · Sep 8, 2012

Rangerhalo said:
Bottom line through all the BS here....Idaho fish and Game DO NOT want loaded firearms in the hunter education classrooms...PERIOD......for obvious reasons...nobody knew this individual...holstered or not its loaded....nobody knew his training, or anything else about him ....it is the obvious right of the instructor in the classroom to ask the man to unlaod the firearm.....as far as me being rude.....well maybe i sense of humor isnt his cup of tea...to each is own....i am no where near anti gun and to assume so is very ignorant on your part......i am as pro gun as any one....i believe we have the right to own and carry....but i also believe in safety and prudence....somebody telling me that they are wearing a loaded firearm for safety in a bowhunter education class...Lame......so save the rhetoric.....the weapon should have not been loaded, and had no reason to even be there......call it strwmans argument...doubt my background....all that other BS you guys do in these forums to protect buddies and what have you.....Handguns should not be loased in classrooms with kids in them...or anyone else for that matter....for OBVIOUS safety reasons....and anyone that doesnt understand that i find disturbing if they carry....my point is made ....im out.

Here is a link of a person that would love to hear your thoughts............https://www.facebook.com/sarah.brady.330

Asked to Disarm at IDFG Bowhunter Education Class - Refused

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