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Thread: One shot with a .22, that's pretty impressive shot placement......

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    One shot with a .22, that's pretty impressive shot placement......

    Attempted robbery and rape by a much larger man ends poorly for him. I'm shocked the woman was able to take her attacker down with one well placed shot from a .22 to the chest. Link to the story:

    http://www.wfie.com/story/15152384/s...to-rape-clerk#

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwy!!!!

    This is WAY GOOD!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

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    The Sheriff said...,

    this was an unfortunate situation where the victim feared for her life and defended herself.

    I'd say it was damned fortunate for all of us that she had an employer that allowed her to have a gun on her, that she took advantage of that situation, and met the threat with an immediate, proper and effective response.

    Dear God, may it ever be so!!!

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    I was told many, many years ago that a .22 was one of the most dangerous rounds to get shot with. There were two reasons given; it tends to bounce around inside and it is, according to a doctor I knew, an absolute (female canine) to properly clean.

    I just hope this lady is able to put this behind her.

    Anyone for a fund to get her a larger caliber weapon?

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    but but but wait, I thought only retards and sissies carry a .22 for SD.

    a gun is a gun is a gun.

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Well, I consider my .22 cal BUG as a 'close contact' weapon
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    This news story is obviously a made-up fabrication, because everyone KNOWS that the .22 is not an effective self-defense round....

    <sarcasm OFF>


    Goes to show, what I've been saying all along is 100% true.

    All the "caliber queens" can kiss this woman's ass--it's ALL about shot placement...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    All the "caliber queens" can kiss this woman's ass--it's ALL about shot placement...

    There isn't much information about how fast the bad guy went down. My guess is that he panicked and started worrying uselessly about trying to save his life after he got shot. Unless he got shot in the spine, there is just about no way at all that he couldn't have spent his last seconds stabbing this woman to death.

    There is an enormous difference between instant incapacitation and eventual death, and while shot placement is everything, bigger calibers increase the options dramatically. Snub nosed .22 LR's and Magnums, as well as .25 Auto's of a very small size, such as Baby Brownings, will all as a rule have a very hard time penetrating a human skull even with the fastest available ball ammo. The light weight and low velocity make everything other than neck, ear and eye shots a matter solely of luck. Anyone who doesn't believe this I strongly encourage to do their own research.

    An attacker may be scared off by the sight of a gun, he may be panicked if you shoot him and he starts worrying about trying to save himself, and he may even die rapidly if you're an expert shooter who nails him several times in the neck with a NAA Mini. But at the end of the day, .32 ACP and FMJ's is about the smallest and lowest in power you can go and hope to have reliable enough performance to incapacitate with any neck and head shots.
    Last edited by Michigander; 08-06-2011 at 01:27 AM.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Look at it this way. This big guy has the woman down. and he is above her. he puts his knife away because he feels his sheer physical size will keep her under control.

    She has a little 22lr stubby in her pocket. She pulls it out and pushes the barrel into mr bigs sturnum. (you know, the little place just below the breastbone, and probably the only place she can get it to being pinned under his weight?)

    There is no bone between that .22 and 1: the heart, and behind the heart, the spine. Yes, I am fairly sure that a .22 would not exit the spine, but it does not have to, 1/2 way is plenty for perminent lights out for mr bad guy. Think of the angles involved, organ placement etc...I'll bet mr BG never knew what hit him.
    Last edited by hermannr; 08-07-2011 at 05:02 PM.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Look at it this way. This big guy has the woman down. and he is above her. he puts his knife away because he feels his sheer physical size will keep her under control.

    She has a little 22lr stubby in her pocket. She pulls it out and pushes the barrel into mr bigs sturnum. (you know, the little place just below the brestbone, and probably the only place she can get it to being pinned under his weight?)

    There is no bone between that .22 and 1: the heart, and behind the heart, 2: the spine. Yes, I am fairly sure that a .22 would not exit the spine, but it does not have to, 1/2 way is plenty for perminent lights out for mr bad guy. Think of the angles involved, organ placement etc...I'll bet mr BG never knew what hit him.
    Last edited by hermannr; 08-07-2011 at 05:07 PM.

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    A .22 in the pocket beats a .45 thats home on the dresser.... any day.

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    Regular Member MarkD51's Avatar
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    Sherrif Lott got his public response way off base!

    He said this was "an unfortunate incident". No it wasn't, it was a very "fortunate" incident, where the victim was able to fend off some POS thug attacker, that he's now resting exactly where he belongs, six foot down, looking up.

    It's long overdue, where a mayor of such a town, grow a pair, commend, and thank the woman for doing the right thing.
    If I was that mayor, I'd dip into the city's kitty, and do whatver it takes to show appreciation to a person who has ridden the world of some POS sub human, who would've no doubt went on past this, to abduct, and harm many more people.

    Thank you Mam! You're a hero in my eyes!
    Last edited by MarkD51; 08-07-2011 at 07:34 PM.

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    Regular Member MarkD51's Avatar
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    As for .22's, don't underestimate such a caliber. Close up, they'll do plenty of damage. Would you like getting hit with one right between the eyes? Or how about the chest-heart area, were that bastard bounces from your chest, to your pubes, to your shoulders, and back?

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD51 View Post
    As for .22's, don't underestimate such a caliber. Close up, they'll do plenty of damage. Would you like getting hit with one right between the eyes? Or how about the chest-heart area, were that bastard bounces from your chest, to your pubes, to your shoulders, and back?
    Between the eyes, from a super short snubbie, your odds of survival would be pretty good actually. I imagine it wouldn't be fun at all, but you'd probably survive and have a nasty little scar. Maybe not, but it's likely. We're talking about a relatively thick sheet of bone and a very small bullet going at a very slow speed, essentially performing like a moderately powered adult air rifle.

    Soft tissue is another matter. Here the 20 something mouse guns will penetrate well enough, and even cause death. But with a little luck and intervention from surgeons, lethality still might be lacking. 5 or 6 shots to the guts, given good placement would probably kill someone despite potential surgical intervention, but speed of incapacitation would still be almost non existent. As an assassination technique it could work well enough, as a self defense system it is nearly worthless if an attacker is truly determined to kill the defender. You need to stop a threat, not anger it and cause death hours or days later.
    Last edited by Michigander; 08-10-2011 at 02:24 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Fill up a gallon jug of water. Now stab it with a pin. Yup, eventually it will completely drain out... Now fill up another gallon jug of water, SMASH IT WITH A F#^*ING BOWLING BALL....

    Ladies and gentlemen, the .22 vs larger caliber debate.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
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    Regular Member ColeMD17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    There is an enormous difference between instant incapacitation and eventual death, and while shot placement is everything, bigger calibers increase the options dramatically. Snub nosed .22 LR's and Magnums, as well as .25 Auto's of a very small size, such as Baby Brownings, will all as a rule have a very hard time penetrating a human skull even with the fastest available ball ammo. The light weight and low velocity make everything other than neck, ear and eye shots a matter solely of luck. Anyone who doesn't believe this I strongly encourage to do their own research.
    I personally knew two men who would beg to differ. One's 6 feet underground with a .22 hole in the back of his head and the other has about 13 years left on his sentence. I consider my own research done.

    of course, I realize that, as far as you're concerned, I'm just another guy on the internet.
    Last edited by ColeMD17; 08-11-2011 at 04:39 AM.
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    godd*** you people love to argue.


    do you guys argue like this in real life with people in the break room?

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    godd*** you people love to argue.


    do you guys argue like this in real life with people in the break room?
    Well, bomber, I look at it this way, there are some folks in this forum that have a lot of experience, and there are some who don't have a lot of experience yet and sometimes that shows

    For example, those of us who remember the NYC Mafia and the murders they committed (1970s-1980s) realize that a .22 was the caliber of choice for them because the .22 round had enough power to enter the skull, but not enough to exit the skull which caused the riccochet to swiss cheese the brain. (Wasn't Serpico shot with a .22 or a .32?)

    And some, no matter what their experience just have to 'stir the pot'
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    I can impale him on a .50 BMG, but I'd much rather ignite the powder in the cartridge somehow...
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    godd*** you people love to argue.


    do you guys argue like this in real life with people in the break room?
    Oh man, if you could come to work with me for a day... lol
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    I used to know an appellate attorney out in the Southwest somewhere, Erich something, who made up this little oft-quoted aphorism that I liked. He said,
    Shot placement is king; adequate penetration is queen; everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins.
    I tell people that effectiveness is all that counts, and that, as a general rule, a .38 special or a 9mm will do just fine, and anything bigger will be more than necessary (and thus wasting energy in flash, bang, and recoil). Either of those cartridges from a reputable manufacturer will have enough kinetic energy at fifty yards to crush human bone, and thus either will work just fine at normal defensive range. And neither requires consultation of trajectory tables to be able to intercept a moving target, as does the .45 ACP.

    If the subject of this thread had a S&W J frame revolver or a Kahr PM9, I suspect the results would have been more predictable. And either would have been just as easy to carry as what she had, and probably more reliable. The reason this story is newsworthy and has engendered so much discussion is that the results were not predictable - what she did was effective, but it's kind of surprising, and lucky for her, that it was effective.
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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    I like that one Stolen in the best form of admiration
    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    I think that if this were the insane meth-head scenario, the .22 wouldn't be too effective.

    But I challenge any naysayer on the effectiveness of a 22 for SD to stand and let me take shot at them from across the room. I'll even let them bring a knife!

    This does not apply to the certifiably insane - all bets are off for crazy people!

    But a robber, even a desperate one is not going to hang around after being shot once with a .22
    Last edited by BillHoo; 10-04-2011 at 06:23 PM.

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    Regular Member carry for myself's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillHoo View Post
    I think that if this were the insane meth-head scenario, the .22 wouldn't be too effective.

    But I challenge any naysayer on the effectiveness of a 22 for SD to stand and let me take shot at them from across the room. I'll even let them bring a knife!

    This does not apply to the certifiably insane - all bets are off for crazy people!

    But a robber, even a desperate one is not going to hang around after being shot once with a .22
    but he WILL hang around after being shot with a .500 S&W mag out of a 3" ruger alaskan :-p
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    I have made the argument repeatedly, with the experience to back it up, that shot placement is a necessity in combat and self-defense, and that the dorks obsessed with round size were clearly of the "compensating" type.

    We all love guns, and we all appreciate the firm kick of a healthy, large caliber round, but all of that testosterone laden bravado means jack crap without the ability to put it on target every time its needed.


    Massive kudos to this woman. She is indeed a modern day hero!
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