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Thread: What ya think ? Turn it into a Pistol ...or

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    What ya think ? Turn it into a Pistol ...or

    Convert to pistol or Find a new loving home for it ? PM me with your feelings

    That's a Magpul UBR stock, on a SLR15 Defensive Edge multi cal Lower with DPMS trigger


    I think I might need to part with it as to get a Ruger -SP101 357 Mag with a 2.25 inch Barrel Double action only ( hammer-less )


    Moderator comment--

    Obvious attempt to circumvent rules. Deleted posts and references thereto and locking the thread.
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 07-28-2011 at 05:41 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I didn't think you could convert a rifle to a pistol.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I didn't think you could convert a rifle to a pistol.
    People create AR Pistols all the time from Lowers...but I guess that's not what I am (( really)) asking
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    People create AR Pistols all the time from Lowers...but I guess that's not what I am (( really)) asking
    I know you can built an AR pistol form lowers, but doesn't it depend on how the paperwork was filled out as a pistol or rifle? I thought you could only go from pistol to rifle and no the other way.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I know you can built an AR pistol form lowers, but doesn't it depend on how the paperwork was filled out as a pistol or rifle? I thought you could only go from pistol to rifle and no the other way.
    not 100 % sure on this..waiting for Interceptor to chime in..He really is the expert on these things.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  6. #6
    Regular Member markush's Avatar
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    As protias said, It would have had to have been originally written up as a pistol. Even if it was originally transfered as a pistol and then later built as a rifle it cannot go back to being a pistol.
    Last edited by markush; 07-28-2011 at 05:52 PM.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markush View Post
    As protias said, It would have had to have been originally written up as a pistol. Even if it was originally transfered as a pistol and then later built as a rifle it cannot go back to being a pistol.
    Very good ! The verdict is in Hmmmm..now what to do with it
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  8. #8
    Regular Member markush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    Convert to pistol or Find a new loving home for it ? PM me with your feelings
    I believe you only listed two options in your OP...um...new home!?
    Last edited by markush; 07-28-2011 at 06:16 PM.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markush View Post
    I believe you only listed two options in your OP...um...new home!?
    Gee Whizzz, darn it ( kicking rocks ) ..yeah...I guess
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  10. #10
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markush View Post
    As protias said, It would have had to have been originally written up as a pistol. Even if it was originally transfered as a pistol and then later built as a rifle it cannot go back to being a pistol.
    It is legal to make a pistol from a firearm transferred as a "pistol", "frame" or "receiver". If it was ever transferred as a "rifle" then it may only ever be a rifle or entered into the NFA as a SBR but it may never again be a "pistol". According to the most strict ATF interpretation of the law, if you ever make a rifle from a pistol (attach a stock to it) then it may never be a pistol.
    Of course this is not legal advice as I am not a Lawyer.
    I can cite US code to support my personal opinion though......
    If you notice, a rifle can be "made or remade". A pistol must have been "originally designed" and made...
    http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...er-ffl-gca.pdf

    TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

    PART I--CRIMES

    CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

    Sec. 921. Definitions

    (a) As used in this chapter-- (7) The term ``rifle'' means a weapon designed or redesigned, made
    or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or
    redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire
    only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of
    the trigger.
    (8) The term ``short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or
    more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from
    a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such
    weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six
    inches.
    27 C.F.R. 479.11 Meaning of terms.
    Title 27 - Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms
    Rifle. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
    Pistol. A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)..
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 07-28-2011 at 07:02 PM.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    It is legal to make a pistol from a firearm transferred as a "pistol", "frame" or "receiver". If it was ever transferred as a "rifle" then it may only ever be a rifle or entered into the NFA as a SBR but it may never again be a "pistol". According to the most strict ATF interpretation of the law, if you ever make a rifle from a pistol (attach a stock to it) then it may never be a pistol.
    Of course this is not legal advice as I am not a Lawyer.
    I can cite US code to support my personal opinion though......
    If you notice, a rifle can be "made or remade". A pistol must have been "originally designed" and made...
    http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...er-ffl-gca.pdf


    Thank you very much !
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Glock34 you have a PM

  13. #13
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    What ya think ? Turn it into a Pistol ...or...........give it to me.

  14. #14
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    I love that UBR stock. I bet it would make a great SBR. And it looks to even have room for a few extra batterys.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    It is legal to make a pistol from a firearm transferred as a "pistol", "frame" or "receiver". If it was ever transferred as a "rifle" then it may only ever be a rifle or entered into the NFA as a SBR but it may never again be a "pistol". According to the most strict ATF interpretation of the law, if you ever make a rifle from a pistol (attach a stock to it) then it may never be a pistol.
    Of course this is not legal advice as I am not a Lawyer.
    I can cite US code to support my personal opinion though......
    If you notice, a rifle can be "made or remade". A pistol must have been "originally designed" and made...
    http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...er-ffl-gca.pdf
    Yup, more stupid laws. The dumbest one though (in this area) has to be that you can't buy an AR-15 as a pistol and turn it into an SBR without doing the NFA paperwork and paying the tax. Completely stupid! You are making it LESS concealable! Helloooooooo ATF....it's actually getting longer! D-bags.
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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Yup, more stupid laws. The dumbest one though (in this area) has to be that you can't buy an AR-15 as a pistol and turn it into an SBR without doing the NFA paperwork and paying the tax. Completely stupid! You are making it LESS concealable! Helloooooooo ATF....it's actually getting longer! D-bags.
    ATF = All together Facist
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 07-29-2011 at 10:44 AM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Well I have decided to sell it...I put it on Gunbroker.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    Well I have decided to sell it...I put it on Gunbroker.
    Link? Or should we PM you.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Link? Or should we PM you.
    if I link it on here, the Mod might think me as trying to use this forum to sell it...that's against the COC rules. I will send anyone interested a link in PM.

    thebigSD...PM Sent
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 07-29-2011 at 06:16 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  20. #20
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    A pistol can be made into a rifle, then converted back to a pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    Thank you very much !
    On June 8, 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Contender pistol and carbine kit are not a short-barreled rifle under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3). This means that a consumer may possess the pistol with its 10" barrel and may use the kit parts to make a rifle with the 21" barrel, as long as the shoulder stock is not assembled onto the receiver at the same time as the 10" barrel.

    http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html

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    That's my understanding as well...

    If the lower was sold as a pistol, and originally assembled as a pistol (take some pics for documentation), then you can go back and forth between rifle/pistol build.

    Even if it was sold as a pistol, if the first configuration you build with it is a rifle, then it can never legally be a pistol.

    IANAL, IANAATFA, just researched the details a while back and that was my reading.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    On June 8, 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Contender pistol and carbine kit are not a short-barreled rifle under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3). This means that a consumer may possess the pistol with its 10" barrel and may use the kit parts to make a rifle with the 21" barrel, as long as the shoulder stock is not assembled onto the receiver at the same time as the 10" barrel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teej View Post
    That's my understanding as well...

    If the lower was sold as a pistol, and originally assembled as a pistol (take some pics for documentation), then you can go back and forth between rifle/pistol build.

    Even if it was sold as a pistol, if the first configuration you build with it is a rifle, then it can never legally be a pistol.

    IANAL, IANAATFA, just researched the details a while back and that was my reading.
    It is absolutely irrelevant if you first assemble such said kit as a rifle or pistol first. It simply applies to a kit purchase and not any firearm shipped from T/C as a pistol or as a rifle.
    This ruling CAN NOT be applied to the purchase of a T/C handgun. If a bare lower is originally assembled as a pistol and then you add a 16" barrel and shoulder stock to it, it may never again be converted back to a pistol without NFA paperwork. The ATF has been very clear on this point.
    The ruling was very narrow and applied only to a kit which included a receiver, a stock, a pistol grip, a short barrel and a long barrel.

  23. #23
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    Gee Whizzz, darn it ( kicking rocks ) ..yeah...I guess
    LOL!!!

    A lot is lost when your typing vs talking. I got what you were saying right away. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    It is absolutely irrelevant if you first assemble such said kit as a rifle or pistol first. It simply applies to a kit purchase and not any firearm shipped from T/C as a pistol or as a rifle.
    This ruling CAN NOT be applied to the purchase of a T/C handgun. If a bare lower is originally assembled as a pistol and then you add a 16" barrel and shoulder stock to it, it may never again be converted back to a pistol without NFA paperwork. The ATF has been very clear on this point.
    The ruling was very narrow and applied only to a kit which included a receiver, a stock, a pistol grip, a short barrel and a long barrel.
    Nobody else has challenged the ATF on this. I suspect if someone had the pockets deep enough to file a case out of it, and properly used the T/C decision as an arguing point / precedent, they would likely win.

    That said, my pockets aren't that deep and I value my freedom enough that I won't be the brave soul to try.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    The ATF finally caved. This is a game changer... The published "rule" now states that you may convert a pistol to a rifle and back to a pistol an infinite number of times so long as you never combine a butt stock with a barrel which is less than 16" long and follow the total length rule. A rifle originally transferred as a rifle (assembled or produced only as a rifle) is always a rifle or a SBR.
    http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2011-4.pdf
    Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
    when parts in a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a
    rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g.,
    as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length).
    Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
    when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a
    barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration
    not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol).
    Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun
    or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less
    than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or
    produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all
    requirements of the NFA.
    To the extent this ruling may be inconsistent with any prior letter rulings, they are hereby
    superseded.
    Date approved: July 25, 2011
    Kenneth E. Melson
    Acting Director
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 08-03-2011 at 08:59 PM.

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