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What ya think ? Turn it into a Pistol ...or

Teej

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
522
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
That's my understanding as well...

If the lower was sold as a pistol, and originally assembled as a pistol (take some pics for documentation), then you can go back and forth between rifle/pistol build.

Even if it was sold as a pistol, if the first configuration you build with it is a rifle, then it can never legally be a pistol.

IANAL, IANAATFA, just researched the details a while back and that was my reading.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
On June 8, 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Contender pistol and carbine kit are not a short-barreled rifle under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. §5845(a)(3). This means that a consumer may possess the pistol with its 10" barrel and may use the kit parts to make a rifle with the 21" barrel, as long as the shoulder stock is not assembled onto the receiver at the same time as the 10" barrel.

That's my understanding as well...

If the lower was sold as a pistol, and originally assembled as a pistol (take some pics for documentation), then you can go back and forth between rifle/pistol build.

Even if it was sold as a pistol, if the first configuration you build with it is a rifle, then it can never legally be a pistol.

IANAL, IANAATFA, just researched the details a while back and that was my reading.
It is absolutely irrelevant if you first assemble such said kit as a rifle or pistol first. It simply applies to a kit purchase and not any firearm shipped from T/C as a pistol or as a rifle.
This ruling CAN NOT be applied to the purchase of a T/C handgun. If a bare lower is originally assembled as a pistol and then you add a 16" barrel and shoulder stock to it, it may never again be converted back to a pistol without NFA paperwork. The ATF has been very clear on this point.
The ruling was very narrow and applied only to a kit which included a receiver, a stock, a pistol grip, a short barrel and a long barrel.
 

Teej

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
522
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
It is absolutely irrelevant if you first assemble such said kit as a rifle or pistol first. It simply applies to a kit purchase and not any firearm shipped from T/C as a pistol or as a rifle.
This ruling CAN NOT be applied to the purchase of a T/C handgun. If a bare lower is originally assembled as a pistol and then you add a 16" barrel and shoulder stock to it, it may never again be converted back to a pistol without NFA paperwork. The ATF has been very clear on this point.
The ruling was very narrow and applied only to a kit which included a receiver, a stock, a pistol grip, a short barrel and a long barrel.

Nobody else has challenged the ATF on this. I suspect if someone had the pockets deep enough to file a case out of it, and properly used the T/C decision as an arguing point / precedent, they would likely win.

That said, my pockets aren't that deep and I value my freedom enough that I won't be the brave soul to try.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
The ATF finally caved. This is a game changer... The published "rule" now states that you may convert a pistol to a rifle and back to a pistol an infinite number of times so long as you never combine a butt stock with a barrel which is less than 16" long and follow the total length rule. A rifle originally transferred as a rifle (assembled or produced only as a rifle) is always a rifle or a SBR.
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf
Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
when parts in a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a
rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g.,
as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length).
Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a
barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration
not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol).
Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun
or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less
than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or
produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all
requirements of the NFA.
To the extent this ruling may be inconsistent with any prior letter rulings, they are hereby
superseded.
Date approved: July 25, 2011
Kenneth E. Melson
Acting Director
 
Last edited:

Teej

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
522
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
Very cool, IK.

I know that a lot of people (including me) thought that was the case before - glad to see it's official now, even if it wasn't.
 

ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
Earlier ATF rulings to the opposite?

The ATF finally caved. This is a game changer... The published "rule" now states that you may convert a pistol to a rifle and back to a pistol an infinite number of times so long as you never combine a butt stock with a barrel which is less than 16" long and follow the total length rule. A rifle originally transferred as a rifle (assembled or produced only as a rifle) is always a rifle or a SBR.
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

Do you have access to one of the earlier letters? I would like to be able to reference one.
 
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