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Thread: Chiappa adding RFID Chips to their guns

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    Chiappa adding RFID Chips to their guns

    The sale of Chiappa firearms in the USA is about to plummet. They have just made the worst gun industry PR move of the decade.

    Earlier this week gun bloggers and forum readers noticed that Chiappa Firearms, Italy, had issued a press release saying that they were going to embed RFID chips into their firearms.



    RFID units are circuits that can wirelessly report whatever identifying information was programmed into them. They are embedded everywhere, in consumer electronics, credit cards, trees, animals, humans and even some very dubious prototype electronic firearms.

    Generally they as passive devices (without an internal power source) and are powered by the radio waves emitted by the RFID reader (much like how a crystal radio set need no battery). Because they are low powered, their range is limited, Chiappa claim that the reader can't be more than a few inches from the gun to read it.

    Here is the problem: RFID units can be detected at long ranges with the right equipment, even if the signal is to low to be accuracy read. Hacking RFID systems is always popular at the big hacker conventions. Last year a hacker at DEFCON was able to detect if an individual standing on the ground floor parking lot of the Las Vegas Riviera Hotel was carryin

    MKS Distributing issued a press release that mocked gun bloggers and concerned consumers. In the condescending press release (reproduced below) they reference CIA satellites, Mel Gibson and suggests people who are concerned about RFID should "wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil".

    MKS Distributing press release ...

    RFID "Chip" in Chiappa Firearms-what's up with that?

    MKS Distributing, Dayton OH, July, 2011-Distributor for Chiappa Firearms

    Recently there has been some blogger activity (credibility always guaranteed) concerning Chiappa Firearms putting a RFID (radio frequency identification) in Chiappa Firearms. Yes, but Chiappa will not be using the RFID system for at least a year.

    RUMOR: (known as blogosphere food): The erroneous information about some sort of "chip" was put out by a blogger who translated Chiappa (Italian) technical information incorrectly. The incorrect translation and his interpretation came out as some sort of a GPS type tracking "chip" -which RFID isn't as it cannot transmit anything-it has NO power source (unlike cell phones).

    THE FACTS: Recently several Italian gun makers (not just Chiappa) decided to utilize RFID technology to improve manufacturing and provide more accurate inventory control. We guarantee this technology will proliferate to other gun makers world wide as it is so efficient for everything from production QC control to export/import varification. Other industries already use passive RFID technology such as on DVDs, sunglasses, clothes and even some food products for example.

    Basically Chiappa RFID (again it is radio frequency identification) assists the manufacturing process, inventory control and shipping. The type of information on the RFID ties in the firearm and proof house verification; the latter is required by the Italian Government for all firearms made in Italy. Passive RFID is also a final check that verifies that what is inside the sealed box is the same thing as shown on the box exterior bar code during shipping. Now, it will no longer be necessary to open/inspect hundreds of boxes by hand prior to packing in export containers.

    BOTTOM LINE: The Chiappa PASSIVE RFID can be read ONLY when passed within (2-3 inches) of an active (and powered) reader that is dialed in for the particular long antenna radio frequency of the RFID-this is not random. And it will NOT go into operation for a year or more.

    SUMMARIZING: RFIDs have NO power source or GPS locator. Rest assured they are NOT transmitting your identification and location information to a Chiappa Firearm tasked CIA satellite.

    RFID Removal: For those still concerned you can simply remove the grip and remove the hot glued RFID from the frame in the grip area when (over a year from now) these begin to appear. Others may prefer to wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil, curl in a ball and watch reruns of Mel Gibson's 1997 film, Conspiracy Theory. Well, that's a plan too!

    0full article here http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...aluminum-foil/
    Last edited by zack991; 07-29-2011 at 05:56 PM.
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    Regular Member cbpeck's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I was ever going to purchase a Chiappa, but now I know I won't.

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    If im not mistaken they also distribute other firearms brands as well don't they?
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Very interesting. I doubt they will continue with their plan if they get enough backlash. Anything that can be used to track a gun is not a good idea, even if the odds of it being tracked are slim to none. Here is the email contact information for Chiappa so you can fire off your thoughts if anyone so wishes.

    http://www.chiappafirearms.com/contact-us
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Can you imagine having one of those, and modding the information to say.. Some random ass wacky values.

    Owner : Bart Simpson
    Address blah blah, Springfield, whatever..

    yanno..

    Anyway, if/when these things start showing up in more firearms maybe someday in something I'll own. First thing before even tearing the gun down for a cleaning is modding that little guy right there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Very interesting. I doubt they will continue with their plan if they get enough backlash. Anything that can be used to track a gun is not a good idea, even if the odds of it being tracked are slim to none. Here is the email contact information for Chiappa so you can fire off your thoughts if anyone so wishes.

    http://www.chiappafirearms.com/contact-us
    I sent a respectful email for the most part to them and a LINK TO EVERY gun site I posted their reply to customer concerns. So they can see their actions just set off Greek fire that wont go out for a very long time. I hope they go under for this stupidity. They have a right to put these chips in their weapons to help with the logistical issues( I DON'T AGREE WITH) but to insult current owners or would be owners this way is not only stupid, but what moron approved it thinking this was not going to be a problem.
    Last edited by zack991; 07-29-2011 at 07:44 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    So it comes from the factory with complete information about the firearm.... um, forgive for asking but 'so what?' What's the manufacturer going to put on the RFID chip that's at all incriminating, illegal, immoral or fattening?
    Caliber, date of manufacture, place manufactured, serial number .... and ... umm... what?

    The manufacturer has readily provided the information that the RFID can be removed with a dull butter knife. Obviously they Must have a nefarious purpose in mind... maybe like oh... inventory tracking? Or maybe being able to glean basic information about warranty work automatically without the risk of someone putting in 669678 for the serial number when it's actually 699678?

    I don't want to dismiss the whole "Last year a hacker at DEFCON was able to detect if an individual standing on the ground floor parking lot of the Las Vegas Riviera Hotel was carrying" thing out of hand but there's is WAY too much information missing from that to make any sort of sound conclusion.

    Just off the top of my head, I'd want to know:
    - How did the hacker "know"? Was the stranger in the parking lot invited up to prove or disprove that he was armed?
    - Did the hacker arrange beforehand that an accomplice would be in the parking lot so he could 'prove' how his invention worked? Seems odd that he'd want to prove something by just hoping that by some miracle that there might be someone happening by that was armed.
    - If the hacker did have an accomplice, all that does is prove that the hacker had performed the "experiment" before and made sure that there was an RFID chip available that could be read from a distance.
    - I bet I could design something that will detect a flashlight beam from a distance. But detecting a high-lumen flashlight from a distance doesn't automatically prove that a low-lumen flashlight can be detected from the same distance with the same equipment.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-29-2011 at 10:25 PM.

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    The problem, to me, is that, if, God forbid, our government should go on an illegal gun seizure kick, the chips will help them conduct illegal searches for firearms. That company may stop the practice of embedding RFIDs, however they have already guaranteed that I will never ever purchase one of their firearms. Ever.

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    I think there is a practical use for RFID chips in guns:

    Chip all police guns. Then install scanners in all new cars sold in the US. Sayonara, speed traps.

    You gotta look on the bright side of these things.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I think there is a practical use for RFID chips in guns:

    Chip all police guns. Then install scanners in all new cars sold in the US. Sayonara, speed traps.

    You gotta look on the bright side of these things.
    Or chip all police guns so you can find them when they leave them on the trunk of their car....
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Or chip all police guns so you can find them when they leave them on the trunk of their car....
    Sir, that was just not very nice.... but DAMN funny!

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    Once again, another thread that has zilch to do with police has been dragged into the anti-LEO morass that this board has become of late. Sad.

    Some ponies need to learn another trick.

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    I've had my sights set on a Chiappa Rhino. It fires from the bottom chamber! Brilliant!

    This chip won't stop me from getting one.

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    baaaaa

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    Who's to say that it might be able to disable it? If nothing else, they should take a good long look at the backlash S&W got (and is still getting) when they decided to use the internal locking system on most of their handguns.

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    I can't imagine them being able to put any personally identifiable information on it. That would have to be done at POS. In any event, you can always remove or disable the chip. If you want to just disable it, here's your clue: http://boingboing.net/2008/04/25/how...lock-an-r.html

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    RFID chips are also placed in merchandise in stores to deter theft. They are supposed to go off if the RFID isn't deactivated at the register. Funny thing is I have seen cell phones, cameras, and wallets set off the sensor as people come into the store. I don't want my gun setting off sensors either. Yes, you can remove them but why should you have to go through the hassle?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    The appalling Abner Mikva, a Federal judge, once posited back in the late 70s that roving metal detectorss could be deployed to detect concealed guns on the street.

    Even though the Italian concern has stated that the chip is easily removed, still IMHO it is just another small step toward the realization of Mikva's damp and funky fantasy.

    Just think how easy it would be if, in the current hot and heavy debate about the debt ceiling, some jerk like Conyers slid a rider mandating permanent RFID chips into a bill that gave enough ground to appease the TEA party Republicans, and it got voted into law.

    Don't put it past these freaks. The present Democrat Caucus is the sleaziest most conniving bunch of creeps I have ever seen in my life, and they will stop at nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    RFID chips are also placed in merchandise in stores to deter theft. They are supposed to go off if the RFID isn't deactivated at the register. Funny thing is I have seen cell phones, cameras, and wallets set off the sensor as people come into the store. I don't want my gun setting off sensors either. Yes, you can remove them but why should you have to go through the hassle?
    This, if your looking to track it as it goes through the build process why not have it on a simple strap or bar code on a paper as it goes through the process that can be easily removed after it is ready to pack and ship? Why embed it under the grips if your just looking to track it progress? Their excuse does not hold water.
    Last edited by zack991; 07-30-2011 at 09:14 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    This, if your looking to track it as it goes through the build process why not have it on a simple strap or bar code on a paper as it goes through the process that can be easily removed after it is ready to pack and ship? Why embed it under the grips if your just looking to track it progress? Their excuse does not hold water.
    Sure it does. Makes perfect sense. Can you imagine say, a retail store where you NEVER have to take inventory ever, because all the products are tagged, and the computer system in the building knows exactly how much, and where each product is at. Hell, it can order to restock itself.

    At any rate, I am positive similar systems can be used to track where a product is in production as well.

    Its pretty high tech stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    Sure it does. Makes perfect sense. Can you imagine say, a retail store where you NEVER have to take inventory ever, because all the products are tagged, and the computer system in the building knows exactly how much, and where each product is at. Hell, it can order to restock itself.

    At any rate, I am positive similar systems can be used to track where a product is in production as well.

    Its pretty high tech stuff.
    Brilliant! While were at it why not automate the warehouses to pick and pack those orders? Why not load them onto automated trucking systems that travel on automated highways to those automated retail stores? Then people who lost their jobs to automation can shop without those pesky retail employees to bother them...oh wait! where would a jobless society get money to pay for those items??...Soylent Green anybody?

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markush View Post
    Brilliant! While were at it why not automate the warehouses to pick and pack those orders? Why not load them onto automated trucking systems that travel on automated highways to those automated retail stores? Then people who lost their jobs to automation can shop without those pesky retail employees to bother them...oh wait! where would a jobless society get money to pay for those items??...Soylent Green anybody?
    Can't take human interaction away from retail. However, automagication can take the hardwork from inventory and asset management. Something I wanted to get into years ago, however my "degree" failed to find me a job in that particular field. Was hoping to be able to implement systems like this for auto part stores in the "hard parts" areas and perhaps on the retail floor. When a store may keep only 1 of a particular say alternator on the shelf for a car at any one time, it would be pretty nice if this could happen...

    Scan alternator at register, and at that instant, its marked out.. The RFID system double checks and knows that particular part is no longer on the shelf and within minutes its reordered from the warehouse or distro center. Can also track what parts are requested and not in the store (ever had to order a part, because no one ever stocks anything for your car?) can automagically be entered into the stores stocking system and sent to the store. Would take guess work out of attempting to predict demand for certain parts on certain cars, etc.

    The system is sound and can work. I still haven't seen a single auto chain implement it. The tech could be used for a lot of different applications.

    However, ultimately. People are people, and will tend to not buying anything unless they can interact with another person and be able to touch and hold the said item. Sort of like the music industry in a way. They don't need to fear the tech, and fight it. Embrace it, and change with it, adjust.

    On a side note, a what if moment. When I ever buy a firearm with an RFID "inventory" tag with serial, date, etc or whatever on it. Yeah, I'm going to hack into that thing and put a whole jumble of non-sense on it.

    Make = Water Squirt Gun
    Model = ubah!
    Serial = Eat Crap!

    etc.. >.>

    You bought the thing, including the RFID tag, mod it and make it your own!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Once again, another thread that has zilch to do with police has been dragged into the anti-LEO morass that this board has become of late. Sad.

    Some ponies need to learn another trick.
    Once again the carrot-chomping primate with a bad haircut and the IQ of a gorilla has failed to recognize the connection between gun-control, government, and police.

    Some apes need to maybe eat some brain food, like maybe fish.

    Sad. Pathetic really.

    Edited to Add: I won't discuss this with someone whose logic is so pitiful as to accuse the entire board of being an anti-LEO morass. Moving on.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-31-2011 at 01:50 AM.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    As a gun dealer, I would love an RFID to keep track of inventory.

    However, I would not want to let firearms out the door with one of these chips still intact.

    The question is not if, but when, gun grabbing anti freedom states and cities made the RFID part of some stupid gun rgistration scheme.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    I honestly don't know what all the big deal is.

    Chiappa, an Italian company, is putting on "removable" RFID chips on its manufactured products for both in-country and export use, primarily to comply with European export laws. It's an inventory control tool.

    The importer/distributor tells you YOU CAN REMOVE THE DAMNED THING IF YOU DON'T WANT IT.

    So, where's the problem?

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