Chiappa adding RFID Chips to their guns

zack991 · Jul 29, 2011

The sale of Chiappa firearms in the USA is about to plummet. They have just made the worst gun industry PR move of the decade.

Earlier this week gun bloggers and forum readers noticed that Chiappa Firearms, Italy, had issued a press release saying that they were going to embed RFID chips into their firearms.

RFID units are circuits that can wirelessly report whatever identifying information was programmed into them. They are embedded everywhere, in consumer electronics, credit cards, trees, animals, humans and even some very dubious prototype electronic firearms.

Generally they as passive devices (without an internal power source) and are powered by the radio waves emitted by the RFID reader (much like how a crystal radio set need no battery). Because they are low powered, their range is limited, Chiappa claim that the reader can't be more than a few inches from the gun to read it.

Here is the problem: RFID units can be detected at long ranges with the right equipment, even if the signal is to low to be accuracy read. Hacking RFID systems is always popular at the big hacker conventions. Last year a hacker at DEFCON was able to detect if an individual standing on the ground floor parking lot of the Las Vegas Riviera Hotel was carryin

MKS Distributing issued a press release that mocked gun bloggers and concerned consumers. In the condescending press release (reproduced below) they reference CIA satellites, Mel Gibson and suggests people who are concerned about RFID should "wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil".

MKS Distributing press release ...

RFID "Chip" in Chiappa Firearms-what's up with that?

MKS Distributing, Dayton OH, July, 2011-Distributor for Chiappa Firearms

Recently there has been some blogger activity (credibility always guaranteed) concerning Chiappa Firearms putting a RFID (radio frequency identification) in Chiappa Firearms. Yes, but Chiappa will not be using the RFID system for at least a year.

RUMOR: (known as blogosphere food): The erroneous information about some sort of "chip" was put out by a blogger who translated Chiappa (Italian) technical information incorrectly. The incorrect translation and his interpretation came out as some sort of a GPS type tracking "chip" -which RFID isn't as it cannot transmit anything-it has NO power source (unlike cell phones).

THE FACTS: Recently several Italian gun makers (not just Chiappa) decided to utilize RFID technology to improve manufacturing and provide more accurate inventory control. We guarantee this technology will proliferate to other gun makers world wide as it is so efficient for everything from production QC control to export/import varification. Other industries already use passive RFID technology such as on DVDs, sunglasses, clothes and even some food products for example.

Basically Chiappa RFID (again it is radio frequency identification) assists the manufacturing process, inventory control and shipping. The type of information on the RFID ties in the firearm and proof house verification; the latter is required by the Italian Government for all firearms made in Italy. Passive RFID is also a final check that verifies that what is inside the sealed box is the same thing as shown on the box exterior bar code during shipping. Now, it will no longer be necessary to open/inspect hundreds of boxes by hand prior to packing in export containers.

BOTTOM LINE: The Chiappa PASSIVE RFID can be read ONLY when passed within (2-3 inches) of an active (and powered) reader that is dialed in for the particular long antenna radio frequency of the RFID-this is not random. And it will NOT go into operation for a year or more.

SUMMARIZING: RFIDs have NO power source or GPS locator. Rest assured they are NOT transmitting your identification and location information to a Chiappa Firearm tasked CIA satellite.

RFID Removal: For those still concerned you can simply remove the grip and remove the hot glued RFID from the frame in the grip area when (over a year from now) these begin to appear. Others may prefer to wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil, curl in a ball and watch reruns of Mel Gibson's 1997 film, Conspiracy Theory. Well, that's a plan too!

0full article here http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...the-revolver-and-their-head-in-aluminum-foil/

cbpeck · Jul 29, 2011

I'm not sure I was ever going to purchase a Chiappa, but now I know I won't.

zack991 · Jul 29, 2011

If im not mistaken they also distribute other firearms brands as well don't they?

thebigsd · Jul 29, 2011

Very interesting. I doubt they will continue with their plan if they get enough backlash. Anything that can be used to track a gun is not a good idea, even if the odds of it being tracked are slim to none. Here is the email contact information for Chiappa so you can fire off your thoughts if anyone so wishes.

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/contact-us

VW_Factor · Jul 29, 2011

Can you imagine having one of those, and modding the information to say.. Some random ass wacky values.

Owner : Bart Simpson
Address blah blah, Springfield, whatever..

yanno..

Anyway, if/when these things start showing up in more firearms maybe someday in something I'll own. First thing before even tearing the gun down for a cleaning is modding that little guy right there.

zack991 · Jul 29, 2011

thebigsd said:
Very interesting. I doubt they will continue with their plan if they get enough backlash. Anything that can be used to track a gun is not a good idea, even if the odds of it being tracked are slim to none. Here is the email contact information for Chiappa so you can fire off your thoughts if anyone so wishes.

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/contact-us

I sent a respectful email for the most part to them and a LINK TO EVERY gun site I posted their reply to customer concerns. So they can see their actions just set off Greek fire that wont go out for a very long time. I hope they go under for this stupidity. They have a right to put these chips in their weapons to help with the logistical issues( I DON'T AGREE WITH) but to insult current owners or would be owners this way is not only stupid, but what moron approved it thinking this was not going to be a problem.

Fallschirjmäger · Jul 29, 2011

So it comes from the factory with complete information about the firearm.... um, forgive for asking but 'so what?' What's the manufacturer going to put on the RFID chip that's at all incriminating, illegal, immoral or fattening?
Caliber, date of manufacture, place manufactured, serial number .... and ... umm... what?

The manufacturer has readily provided the information that the RFID can be removed with a dull butter knife. Obviously they Must have a nefarious purpose in mind... maybe like oh... inventory tracking? Or maybe being able to glean basic information about warranty work automatically without the risk of someone putting in 669678 for the serial number when it's actually 699678?

I don't want to dismiss the whole "Last year a hacker at DEFCON was able to detect if an individual standing on the ground floor parking lot of the Las Vegas Riviera Hotel was carrying" thing out of hand but there's is WAY too much information missing from that to make any sort of sound conclusion.

Just off the top of my head, I'd want to know:
- How did the hacker "know"? Was the stranger in the parking lot invited up to prove or disprove that he was armed?
- Did the hacker arrange beforehand that an accomplice would be in the parking lot so he could 'prove' how his invention worked? Seems odd that he'd want to prove something by just hoping that by some miracle that there might be someone happening by that was armed.
- If the hacker did have an accomplice, all that does is prove that the hacker had performed the "experiment" before and made sure that there was an RFID chip available that could be read from a distance.
- I bet I could design something that will detect a flashlight beam from a distance. But detecting a high-lumen flashlight from a distance doesn't automatically prove that a low-lumen flashlight can be detected from the same distance with the same equipment.

eye95 · Jul 30, 2011

The problem, to me, is that, if, God forbid, our government should go on an illegal gun seizure kick, the chips will help them conduct illegal searches for firearms. That company may stop the practice of embedding RFIDs, however they have already guaranteed that I will never ever purchase one of their firearms. Ever.

Citizen · Jul 30, 2011

I think there is a practical use for RFID chips in guns:

Chip all police guns. Then install scanners in all new cars sold in the US. Sayonara, speed traps.

You gotta look on the bright side of these things.

thebigsd · Jul 30, 2011

Citizen said:
I think there is a practical use for RFID chips in guns:

Chip all police guns. Then install scanners in all new cars sold in the US. Sayonara, speed traps.

You gotta look on the bright side of these things.

Or chip all police guns so you can find them when they leave them on the trunk of their car....

JoeSparky · Jul 30, 2011

thebigsd said:
Or chip all police guns so you can find them when they leave them on the trunk of their car....

Sir, that was just not very nice.... but DAMN funny!

eye95 · Jul 30, 2011

Once again, another thread that has zilch to do with police has been dragged into the anti-LEO morass that this board has become of late. Sad.

Some ponies need to learn another trick.

SickPythons · Jul 30, 2011

I've had my sights set on a Chiappa Rhino. It fires from the bottom chamber! Brilliant!

This chip won't stop me from getting one.

markush · Jul 30, 2011

baaaaa

zoom6zoom · Jul 30, 2011

Who's to say that it might be able to disable it? If nothing else, they should take a good long look at the backlash S&W got (and is still getting) when they decided to use the internal locking system on most of their handguns.

kcgunfan · Jul 30, 2011

I can't imagine them being able to put any personally identifiable information on it. That would have to be done at POS. In any event, you can always remove or disable the chip. If you want to just disable it, here's your clue: http://boingboing.net/2008/04/25/howto-killblock-an-r.html

thebigsd · Jul 30, 2011

RFID chips are also placed in merchandise in stores to deter theft. They are supposed to go off if the RFID isn't deactivated at the register. Funny thing is I have seen cell phones, cameras, and wallets set off the sensor as people come into the store. I don't want my gun setting off sensors either. Yes, you can remove them but why should you have to go through the hassle?

Alexcabbie · Jul 30, 2011

The appalling Abner Mikva, a Federal judge, once posited back in the late 70s that roving metal detectorss could be deployed to detect concealed guns on the street.

Even though the Italian concern has stated that the chip is easily removed, still IMHO it is just another small step toward the realization of Mikva's damp and funky fantasy.

Just think how easy it would be if, in the current hot and heavy debate about the debt ceiling, some jerk like Conyers slid a rider mandating permanent RFID chips into a bill that gave enough ground to appease the TEA party Republicans, and it got voted into law.

Don't put it past these freaks. The present Democrat Caucus is the sleaziest most conniving bunch of creeps I have ever seen in my life, and they will stop at nothing.

zack991 · Jul 30, 2011

thebigsd said:
RFID chips are also placed in merchandise in stores to deter theft. They are supposed to go off if the RFID isn't deactivated at the register. Funny thing is I have seen cell phones, cameras, and wallets set off the sensor as people come into the store. I don't want my gun setting off sensors either. Yes, you can remove them but why should you have to go through the hassle?

This, if your looking to track it as it goes through the build process why not have it on a simple strap or bar code on a paper as it goes through the process that can be easily removed after it is ready to pack and ship? Why embed it under the grips if your just looking to track it progress? Their excuse does not hold water.

VW_Factor · Jul 30, 2011

zack991 said:
This, if your looking to track it as it goes through the build process why not have it on a simple strap or bar code on a paper as it goes through the process that can be easily removed after it is ready to pack and ship? Why embed it under the grips if your just looking to track it progress? Their excuse does not hold water.

Sure it does. Makes perfect sense. Can you imagine say, a retail store where you NEVER have to take inventory ever, because all the products are tagged, and the computer system in the building knows exactly how much, and where each product is at. Hell, it can order to restock itself.

At any rate, I am positive similar systems can be used to track where a product is in production as well.

Its pretty high tech stuff.

Chiappa adding RFID Chips to their guns

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Founder's Club Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Active member

Well-known member

Founder's Club Member

Founder's Club Member

Centurion

Well-known member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Founder's Club Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member