Brilliant! While were at it why not automate the warehouses to pick and pack those orders? Why not load them onto automated trucking systems that travel on automated highways to those automated retail stores? Then people who lost their jobs to automation can shop without those pesky retail employees to bother them...oh wait! where would a jobless society get money to pay for those items??...Soylent Green anybody?
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Chiappa adding RFID Chips to their guns
- Thread starter zack991
- Start date
Brilliant! While were at it why not automate the warehouses to pick and pack those orders? Why not load them onto automated trucking systems that travel on automated highways to those automated retail stores? Then people who lost their jobs to automation can shop without those pesky retail employees to bother them...oh wait! where would a jobless society get money to pay for those items??...Soylent Green anybody?
VW_Factor
Regular Member
Can't take human interaction away from retail. However, automagication can take the hardwork from inventory and asset management. Something I wanted to get into years ago, however my "degree" failed to find me a job in that particular field. Was hoping to be able to implement systems like this for auto part stores in the "hard parts" areas and perhaps on the retail floor. When a store may keep only 1 of a particular say alternator on the shelf for a car at any one time, it would be pretty nice if this could happen...
Scan alternator at register, and at that instant, its marked out.. The RFID system double checks and knows that particular part is no longer on the shelf and within minutes its reordered from the warehouse or distro center. Can also track what parts are requested and not in the store (ever had to order a part, because no one ever stocks anything for your car?) can automagically be entered into the stores stocking system and sent to the store. Would take guess work out of attempting to predict demand for certain parts on certain cars, etc.
The system is sound and can work. I still haven't seen a single auto chain implement it. The tech could be used for a lot of different applications.
However, ultimately. People are people, and will tend to not buying anything unless they can interact with another person and be able to touch and hold the said item. Sort of like the music industry in a way. They don't need to fear the tech, and fight it. Embrace it, and change with it, adjust.
On a side note, a what if moment. When I ever buy a firearm with an RFID "inventory" tag with serial, date, etc or whatever on it. Yeah, I'm going to hack into that thing and put a whole jumble of non-sense on it.
Make = Water Squirt Gun
Model = ubah!
Serial = Eat Crap!
etc.. >.>
You bought the thing, including the RFID tag, mod it and make it your own!
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
Once again the carrot-chomping primate with a bad haircut and the IQ of a gorilla has failed to recognize the connection between gun-control, government, and police.
Some apes need to maybe eat some brain food, like maybe fish.
Sad. Pathetic really.
Edited to Add: I won't discuss this with someone whose logic is so pitiful as to accuse the entire board of being an anti-LEO morass. Moving on.
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Thundar
Regular Member
As a gun dealer, I would love an RFID to keep track of inventory.
However, I would not want to let firearms out the door with one of these chips still intact.
The question is not if, but when, gun grabbing anti freedom states and cities made the RFID part of some stupid gun rgistration scheme.
However, I would not want to let firearms out the door with one of these chips still intact.
The question is not if, but when, gun grabbing anti freedom states and cities made the RFID part of some stupid gun rgistration scheme.
Statkowski
Regular Member
I honestly don't know what all the big deal is.
Chiappa, an Italian company, is putting on "removable" RFID chips on its manufactured products for both in-country and export use, primarily to comply with European export laws. It's an inventory control tool.
The importer/distributor tells you YOU CAN REMOVE THE DAMNED THING IF YOU DON'T WANT IT.
So, where's the problem?
Chiappa, an Italian company, is putting on "removable" RFID chips on its manufactured products for both in-country and export use, primarily to comply with European export laws. It's an inventory control tool.
The importer/distributor tells you YOU CAN REMOVE THE DAMNED THING IF YOU DON'T WANT IT.
So, where's the problem?
Thundar
Regular Member
The problem is that some anti gun states, cities and D.C. will treat the RFID like a serial number and make it a felony to remove or alter the RFID chip.
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eye95
Well-known member
1. That they felt the need to put it there in the first place.
2. That it raises the cost of the firearm by even a penny for a feature that should be repugnant to all who love Liberty.
3. That it is I who must remove it.
4. That some, who are not as vigilant, will leave it in place, not realizing how this company, through either apathy or complicity, has contributed to the physical ability of the state to implement a gun-seizure.
Yeah, there are some who, in full knowledge of the RFIDs and the potential danger, will buy the guns anyway. A small few. And there are some who will buy the guns in abject ignorance. However, there will be a backlash against this company, enough of one to make them realize how stupid this move was.
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230therapy
Regular Member
My email:
okboomer
Regular Member
Or, in other words Give an inch and they take a mile
This 100%
I don't have an issue with a company making their logistical issues easier, but you cant tell me it cant be put to the trigger guard like by a ziptie for easy removal by the dealer or owner. Yet the fact they have hidden it out of sight underneath the grips and just imagine the even bigger firestorm that would be going on if they said nothing and a gun owner found it. Gun owners are not very trustworthy of any local, state or Federal Government but to pull a stunt like this with their down right nasty reply to concerned gun owners about possible giving a tool to a already corrupt government is astounding.
Hey guys, serious question: If the RFID chip was ‘just for inventory control’, why did Chiappa go through the trouble and expense of machining a pocket into the gripframe for a permanent, internal chip? Why was the chip intended to become a permanent and hidden part of the gun?
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230therapy
Regular Member
It's not law yet.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
Emphasis on the word yet.
Being deeply suspicious of government is patriotic. One of my favorite quotes is from Edmund Burke. He gave a speech to Parliament about getting on good terms again with the colonies just a month before Lexington and Concord. In his speech, about our Forefathers, he said:
...Permit me, Sir, to add another circumstance in our colonies, which contributes no mean part towards the growth and effect of this untractable spirit. I mean their education. In no country perhaps in the world is the law so general a study...This study renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterous, prompt in attack, ready in defence, full of resources. In other countries, the people, more simple, and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principle in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principle. They augur misgovernment at a distance; and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze...(emphasis by Citizen)
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch1s2.html
Also, check out a little bit about Italian gun control. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Italy
Dreamer
Regular Member
If this RFID chip has the firearm's serial number programmed into it, wouldn't removal or reprogramming of the chip violate State and Federal laws prohibiting the removal or defacement of serial numbers on firearms?
I'm just thinking like a weasel anti-gun lawyer, trying to figure out a way they could use this against our rights.
Personally, I think chipping firearms is a VERY bad idea...
I'm just thinking like a weasel anti-gun lawyer, trying to figure out a way they could use this against our rights.
Personally, I think chipping firearms is a VERY bad idea...
VW_Factor
Regular Member
When its so easily removed or replaced to/from the chip.. Hard case to prove, especially that you in theory could program it to say whatever you want.
Its A LOT different than defacing the serial on the frame of a firearm. That is not easily replaced after its been defaced.
Fallschirjmäger
Active member
Earlier this year, I purchased a FN firearm that had a bar-coded bit of a adhesive paper affixed to it with the serial number. Are you seriously suggesting that removing that bit of gummed paper equated to "removing or defacing a serial number"?
What if I wrote the serial number on the firearm with a piece of crayon and it got smudged, would that be defacing the serial number too?
The crime of defacing a serial number applies to the ATF Mandated serial number that meets AFT Mandated Requirements as to location, size, and depth.
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Fallschirjmäger
Active member
Thundar said:
Pardon me, but WHAT's not the law yet?
What's the number of the bill in the State Legislature?
What's the state that the bill's been introduced in?
Or are we talking about something that's not a law yet, because there's not a bill yet, because no Congressman has introduced one yet?
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Just doing a simple search I found four companies that specialized in just RFID chips for firearms, why accept the practice? The second gun owners give up and say, it is not a big deal. A lawmaker will simple take the technology that is already in use widely in military and law enforcement firearms. With a simple swipe of a pen they will just make it a requirement to have them installed on all firearms just so "company's and dealers" can make sure their weapons are not "lost" or accidentally make it across the border.....
They could include or amend the current law to force gun owners to not remove or alter the RFID chip because it will replace the older stamped serial number. Its quiet simple for them to change the current law to make the RFID to hold everything from not only the serial number but dealer and born date of the firearm all in one scan. Their excuse will be to help streamline our government systems to help in the aid of law enforcement. They have passed even crazier gun laws than this, just because something is not yet on paper does not mean it will not happen. If everyone took your stance on it, we would never need to have Gun rights groups fighting to make sure stupidity like this does not become a reality. Because if there is no law currently being written we having nothing to worry about right…..?
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Fallschirjmäger
Active member
I guess I should really get a head start and get worried about them putting a RFID chip in my hand and that anti-cloning thing right? Don't want to end up like Arnie in "The Sixth Day" and find out I'm a clone.
Never too early to start being paranoid over things, is it?
Bottom line ... it's another place to put a serial number, and so far we have exactly ONE, report of a "hacker" who can detect a Fracking HUGE RFID chip from a distance (One may note that antenna size has a lot to do with how far a signal can be reasonably be expected to broadcast.) One may also take note that it took several tries and that each try necessitated increased power and even at the highest power they were unable to read a serial number from a RFID that appears to be at least two inches in length. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take any super secret squirrel technology to detect that someone had a sizable quantity of metal on them from the same distance. Disabling a RFID chip would be child's play compared to hiding the signature from a metal object.
As for "reprogramming" the chip to say anything, the great, unnamed "they" could just as easily engrave the same nebulous info on your firearm anyway since they'd have it in their blue-gloved hands. And even then, a Programmable Read Only chip (which is all a mfg needs to track serial numbers) is immune from being reprogrammed.
Never too early to start being paranoid over things, is it?
Bottom line ... it's another place to put a serial number, and so far we have exactly ONE, report of a "hacker" who can detect a Fracking HUGE RFID chip from a distance (One may note that antenna size has a lot to do with how far a signal can be reasonably be expected to broadcast.) One may also take note that it took several tries and that each try necessitated increased power and even at the highest power they were unable to read a serial number from a RFID that appears to be at least two inches in length. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take any super secret squirrel technology to detect that someone had a sizable quantity of metal on them from the same distance. Disabling a RFID chip would be child's play compared to hiding the signature from a metal object.
As for "reprogramming" the chip to say anything, the great, unnamed "they" could just as easily engrave the same nebulous info on your firearm anyway since they'd have it in their blue-gloved hands. And even then, a Programmable Read Only chip (which is all a mfg needs to track serial numbers) is immune from being reprogrammed.
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thebigsd
Founder's Club Member
If they can put chips in dogs and cats, they can do it to humans. I have a feeling that we really aren't that far away from it happening. The military was considering doing it at one point, so that medics could get a soldier's basic medical information in the field by scanning them. I don't have a cite, anyone else remember hearing about this.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/192204948
This was in 06
The Electronic Privacy Information Center states that "the ability to track people, products, vehicles, and even currency would create an Orwellian world where law enforcement officials and nosy retailers could read the contents of a handbag—perhaps without a person's knowledge—simply by installing RFID readers nearby."
"Such a fear is not unfounded. Currently, some RFID readers have the capacity to read data transmitted by many different RFID tags," the organization states on its Web site. "This means that if a person enters a store carrying several RFID tags—for example, in articles of clothing or cards carried in a wallet—one RFID reader can read the data emitted by all of the tags, and not simply the signal relayed by in-store products. This capacity enables retailers with RFID readers to compile a more complete profile of shoppers than would be possible by simply scanning the bar codes of products a consumer purchases."
Joe Davis, spokesperson for the Veterans of Foreign Wars office in Washington, D.C., said although it makes great sense to be able to scan a device and pull up a full medical history, he would like to see further study before the military uses the implants. He said his initial concerns include possible health effects, whether enemies could access soldiers' information and whether the implants would replace dog tags, and, if so, stand up to an explosion.
"They issue two dog tags," he said. "One goes around the neck and the other is laced into the boot. The foot and boot will survive an explosion. DNA from the foot in the boot will survive, plus you've got your metal dog tag right there. What type of survival rate does this little chip have in an explosion? From what I've read, it sounds like they're trying to push this thing through. You don't push things through when it's new technology. You have to weigh all the pros and cons, and you have to ask the service members 'What do you think of this?' because it's going in their neck, or wherever it's going to go, and this proposal needs lot more study."
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