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Thread: Utah Changes Requirements

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    Regular Member Grant Guess's Avatar
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    Utah Changes Requirements

    Could not find a thread in the WI forum regarding this. Seems that Utah has now passed a law that requires you to first be a permit holder in your own state before they will issue a Utah permit.

    If this is widely known here then I apologize and ask the mods to delete...

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politic...eapon.html.csp
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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Yep it is true. The Utah permit I have is still good, but when I go to renew it, I will have to show a copy of my "home state" permit.

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    Yes, it is true that you must first have a permit from your home state before you can be issued a permit from Utah BUT......

    This only applies if your home state RECOGNIZES Utah's permit and issues permits. If your home state does not recognize or Issue a permit of their own then you are good to go as before this law was past.

    Before this particular law was passed I communicated to those pushing it that I thought it was bad law as it was an effort to "calm" some upset NINNY other state Legislature member's nerves that discovered their residents were applying for and receiving Utah permits INSTEAD of getting their own states permit. Personally, if TEXAS Legislators don't like Texas residents from getting and using Utah permits to allow them to carry in Texas then Texas needs to change their OWN LAW to prohibit Texas residents from doing such and don't ask UTAH to change Utah's law so Texas Legislator's don't have to face THEIR OWN CONSTITUENTS on this matter!

    As you can see I was not very successful in this endeavor!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 07-30-2011 at 01:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Yes, it is true that you must first have a permit from your home state before you can be issued a permit from Utah BUT......

    This only applies if your home state RECOGNIZES Utah's permit and issues permits. If your home state does not recognize or Issue a permit of their own then you are good to go as before this law was past.
    Since the law recognizing all state permits to carry weapons goes into effect in Wisconsin on November 1st then I would assume that after that date a Wisconsin resident would need to provide proof of a Wisconsin permit to apply for a Utah permit, correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Before this particular law was passed I communicated to those pushing it that I thought it was bad law as it was an effort to "calm" some upset NINNY other state Legislature member's nerves that discovered their residents were applying for and receiving Utah permits INSTEAD of getting their own states permit. Personally, if TEXAS Legislators don't like Texas residents from getting and using Utah permits to allow them to carry in Texas then Texas needs to change their OWN LAW to prohibit Texas residents from doing such and don't ask UTAH to change Utah's law so Texas Legislator's don't have to face THEIR OWN CONSTITUENTS on this matter!
    I agree. I had a few lengthy conversations on this board with a handful of Utah residents attempting to point out the nonsense of this law.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    As you can see I was not very successful in this endeavor!
    I was not successful either. It seems too many Utahans felt this law was necessary. Don't be too down on it. Let this one go by and focus on permitless carry. Personally this is a bridge too far for me, I cannot bring myself to submit my Iowa permit to carry to Utah to get their permit. I have one now but I will not renew. I got the Utah permit because it is one of the few that I can get around here that is recognized in Minnesota. When the expiration date on my Utah permit draws near I'll just look for another permit to acquire. The Minnesota permit is now easier to get around here with the recent law change on the Iowa permit to carry, it seems that the Minnesota qualified trainers are more willing to come to town now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IA_farmboy View Post
    Since the law recognizing all state permits to carry weapons goes into effect in Wisconsin on November 1st then I would assume that after that date a Wisconsin resident would need to provide proof of a Wisconsin permit to apply for a Utah permit, correct?
    That is correct. OR apply for a UTAH permit NOW before Wisconsin's law goes into effect, as right now Wisconsin doesn't issue permits..... But, Don't procrastinate!

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    That is correct. OR apply for a UTAH permit NOW before Wisconsin's law goes into effect, as right now Wisconsin doesn't issue permits..... But, Don't procrastinate!
    I agree with Joe. If WI residents get a Utah application in before Nov 1, UT will process the application. To my way of thinking, it is highly probable that WI will recognize the UT permit. And, UT permit is good for MN.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    ... And, UT permit is good for MN.
    How does permit to carry legislation in Minnesota work when it comes to out of state recognition? Or rather, what are the chances that Minnesota will recognize the Wisconsin permit?

    If one wishes to carry in Minnesota it may be in their best interests to seek out a trainer that is recognized by both Minnesota and Wisconsin to offer training. What I have seen happen in Iowa is that the number of people that offer Minnesota training has significantly increased since the law change in Iowa. Getting Utah training is almost trivial given the numbers of people that seek that license nationally and the ease in which trainers can offer that training. From my understanding the Minnesota law only requires the training be offered by a trainer licensed with the state, the content of the training is not specified. One should be able to find a trainer that offers a course that is recognized in Iowa, Minnesota, Florida, Utah, Wisconsin, and probably a handful of other states. It seems the hard part is finding a Minnesota trainer. Once one has the training then one has greater freedom in the choices of permits to acquire. The difference in cost and content of the training should be non-existent, one just might have to look a bit harder.

    Personally, I'd suggest seeking out the Minnesota permit if one wishes to carry in Minnesota. There seems to be some strange stuff going on with the Utah permit process, I believe the home state permit requirement is just a sign of more changes to come. There have been several attempts already in Utah to no longer offer non-resident permits. If this passes in the near future the do the current permits remain valid? I doubt they will be allowed to be renewed.

    There is some strange stuff going on in Utah, I think people would be best served by finding other permits to expand their carry privileges. I hear the Arizona permit is one that is widely recognized and offered to non-residents. Florida seems to be a popular one to get. I'll mention the Minnesota permit again. Perhaps the Iowa permit is a good one to have, I have little knowledge on how non-residents apply but it may be an attractive option for people that visit often. I believe the Iowa permit is still "may issue" under the law for non-residents but the policy could be "shall issue" in practice.

    With so many options available and the shenanigans going on in Utah I feel people might be better served elsewhere. Some time will pass before all the variables will be known on how this affects Wisconsinites.

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    There are no shenanigans going on in Utah.

    Iowa does not issue non-resident permits, but now IA is a "shall issue" state.

    Utah has no plans to drop non-resident permits. Texas has blackmailed Utah into adopting a law that requires non-residents who live in a "shall issue" state, AND, if that state recognizes the Utah permit, to have a home-state permit to get a Utah permit. This prevents "dead-beat dads" who are behind on their child support, and thus are ineligible for a Texas permit, from getting a UT permit to carry in TX. (TX should have cleaned this up via TX law rather than forcing UT to change their laws.)

    For WI residents seeking to carry in MN, the MN permit or the UT permit seem to be the best choices.

    But, there is no "strange stuff" going on in Utah. Utah is one of the most 2A friendly states in the United States of America.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    There are no shenanigans going on in Utah.
    That is a matter of opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    Iowa does not issue non-resident permits, but now IA is a "shall issue" state.
    Yes it does. The laws governing the issuance of permits in under Chapter 724 of the Iowa Code. The official website is difficult to link to so I cannot provide a direct link. Here is a link to an FAQ provided by the Iowa Department of Public Safety:
    http://www.iowacarry.org/download/SF2379_FAQ.pdf

    One portion of note:
    QUESTION: I live in another state. Can I get an Iowa nonprofessional permit to carry weapons?
    ANSWER: No. Iowa nonprofessional permits to carry weapons will only be issued to qualified Iowa residents. Nonresidents will still be able to apply for professional permits to carry weapons if needed for employment related reasons.
    Iowa still issues non-resident permits, but the requirements just became more strict.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    Utah has no plans to drop non-resident permits. Texas has blackmailed Utah into adopting a law that requires non-residents who live in a "shall issue" state, AND, if that state recognizes the Utah permit, to have a home-state permit to get a Utah permit. This prevents "dead-beat dads" who are behind on their child support, and thus are ineligible for a Texas permit, from getting a UT permit to carry in TX. (TX should have cleaned this up via TX law rather than forcing UT to change their laws.)
    I call shenanigans. How can Texas "blackmail" Utah to do anything? Someone in Utah had to be willing to play along. There have been numerous efforts in Utah to water down the permit process, this is just one that has been successful. I recall reading about several efforts to do away with non-resident permits going back many years. I also seem to recall efforts in Utah to do away with recognition of out of state permits. All is not bad news from Utah, the permitless carry effort is going strong.

    I agree that Texas should fix Texas and not try to change the law in other states. The issue in Texas is still there even though Utah permits are unavailable to "deadbeat dads" since Arizona, Florida, Minnesota, and others will still issue permits to Texans. Why Utah would play along with this boggles me. This is especially boggling since I have no reason to believe that Florida is in any way willing to play along. Utah should have been quite capable to tell Texas where to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    For WI residents seeking to carry in MN, the MN permit or the UT permit seem to be the best choices.

    But, there is no "strange stuff" going on in Utah. Utah is one of the most 2A friendly states in the United States of America.
    Utah just got a little less friendly to those that wish to exercise their right to self defense. No doubt that Utah has much better self defense law than many other states. I'm just a bit bitter on the law change. I also realize that Utah owes me nothing since the wide acceptance and ease of availability of their permit is largely a quirk of various states laws. This change in law now diminishes the value of that permit and so I have no intention of renewing it. Due to the recent changes in various states laws creating new quirks the relative value of the Utah permit is now much less than what it used to be. Expect many non-residents to seek other permits because of that. Also, expect me and others that believe as I do to discourage people from seeking a Utah permit.

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    @ Iowa Farmboy - You are entirely free to spend the $15 to renew your UT permit or not, or to cast aside your investment in your UT training and permit and spend more money to get another permit to supplement your IA permit "as a matter of principle". I personally did not agree with the UT legislature's capitulation to TX, but I believe their motivation was to make the UT permit good for reciprocity in as many States as possible. It was apparent to the UT legislature, as well as to myself and my fellow Utah Citizens, that had Utah not capitulated, we would all have to get a TX non-resident permit to carry in TX. As a UT resident who does not want to be "taxed" any more than is necessary, and, since TX did not appear to be willing to do the "right thing" and change their laws, the actions taken by UT were the best thing for UT Citizens. As an IA citizen you are entirely free to criticize this and to spend more for a MN permit. It is your choice and your money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    @ Iowa Farmboy - You are entirely free to spend the $15 to renew your UT permit or not, or to cast aside your investment in your UT training and permit and spend more money to get another permit to supplement your IA permit "as a matter of principle". I personally did not agree with the UT legislature's capitulation to TX, but I believe their motivation was to make the UT permit good for reciprocity in as many States as possible. It was apparent to the UT legislature, as well as to myself and my fellow Utah Citizens, that had Utah not capitulated, we would all have to get a TX non-resident permit to carry in TX. As a UT resident who does not want to be "taxed" any more than is necessary, and, since TX did not appear to be willing to do the "right thing" and change their laws, the actions taken by UT were the best thing for UT Citizens. As an IA citizen you are entirely free to criticize this and to spend more for a MN permit. It is your choice and your money.
    Well put JPM. Save your breath with Farmboy. He is very angry about Utah law being an 'inconvenience' to him. Wrong or right, it is what it is for now. Many people, including Utah folks, have debated the subject with him and he never seems to be open to anything other then how it sucks for him. My advice to him was DONT renew. We do not need his money. It was explained to him, as you just did, that it was intended for the betterment of Utah residents and not for those of other state. Let him be!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IA_farmboy View Post
    Since the law recognizing all state permits to carry weapons goes into effect in Wisconsin on November 1st then I would assume that after that date a Wisconsin resident would need to provide proof of a Wisconsin permit to apply for a Utah permit, correct?



    .
    The new WI law doesn't actually "recognize all state permits..." From what I read they will recognize states that do background checks when issuing permits...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    The new WI law doesn't actually "recognize all state permits..." From what I read they will recognize states that do background checks when issuing permits...
    Which ought to be pretty much all of them, minus maybe one or two.

    Never quite caught on to the big attraction of the UT permit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    @ Iowa Farmboy - You are entirely free to spend the $15 to renew your UT permit or not, or to cast aside your investment in your UT training and permit and spend more money to get another permit to supplement your IA permit "as a matter of principle".
    The way things are going it is my belief that by the time my Utah permit expires I will not need a permit to supplement my Iowa permit. At the time I applied for the Utah permit the shall issue law in Iowa was not even being debated. Now that I have an Iowa permit, which is recognized in 25 states (give or take, I'm not good at math), I 'm doubting the need for another. At the time, though, my choices were limited. Now my choices are greater, as they are for the residents of Wisconsin. Utah is not the "gold standard" it used to be.

    The residents of Wisconsin need to take this into the computation of their costs. There is a growing movement in Wisconsin to have a constitutionally protected right to carry a concealed weapon. This may take the form of a court ruling or new legislation. If they choose to invest in the Utah permit now then they will have to do so knowing that even though a Wisconsin permit is not required to carry in their own state the Utah home state requirement will still likely be there. That means paying the renewal costs for both a Wisconsin permit AND the Utah permit when there is the option to get only the Minnesota permit.

    I'm just giving fair warning. I was working on only the information I had at the time when I applied for my Utah permit. Had I known then what I know now I would have taken the extra cost and effort needed to obtain a Minnesota permit, or an Iowa permit (the law did allow me to get an Iowa permit then but the training costs imposed by the sheriff at the time were considerably more than any other permit), or the Arizona permit.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    I personally did not agree with the UT legislature's capitulation to TX, but I believe their motivation was to make the UT permit good for reciprocity in as many States as possible. It was apparent to the UT legislature, as well as to myself and my fellow Utah Citizens, that had Utah not capitulated, we would all have to get a TX non-resident permit to carry in TX. As a UT resident who does not want to be "taxed" any more than is necessary, and, since TX did not appear to be willing to do the "right thing" and change their laws, the actions taken by UT were the best thing for UT Citizens.
    I know the history behind the Utah decision to change the law, I just don't understand it. Utah felt pressured to change their law for some reason. I just don't understand why the recognition of Texas, a state that they don't even share a border with, was so important to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    As an IA citizen you are entirely free to criticize this and to spend more for a MN permit. It is your choice and your money.
    Yes, I do have the freedom to criticize. I offer my own experience with the Utah permit as a warning to Wisconsin residents. There are a number of states that are threatening to drop recognition of the Utah permit. I do not know if Minnesota is among them. If the desire is to have a permit to carry in Minnesota then I am merely suggesting to Wisconsin residents to get the Minnesota permit. This should remove most concerns about law changes in Utah or Minnesota affecting the future recognition of the permit. This does involve a bit more effort (since the process in Minnesota is a bit more complex) and a bit more cost (since the Minnesota permit fees are a bit higher) but the peace of mind should be worth something.

    My suggestions to Wisconsinites depends on the time frame they are working under. If you want to get the privilege to carry weapons in Minnesota quickly then the Utah permit may be the best choice. Time is running out, if you wait for the Wisconsin permitting law to go into effect then the process becomes much longer as you will have to wait for Wisconsin to issue your permit first before you can even apply for the Utah permit.

    If time is not too critical then it may be worth it to take the time to do more research, find the right instructor, and take the right class. It should not be too difficult to find someone offering a course that satisfies Minnesota, Utah, Florida, and Wisconsin permit requirements. If you can get into that class within the timeframe and budget that suits you then I can highly suggest that path. Then you will have the time to decide which permit or permits you will want based on the states you plan to visit.

    If one is taking the longer view, and/or money is a bit tight right now, then I'd suggest waiting. See how the Wisconsin laws work out. See what happens with the Minnesota recognition of permits. I don't know how Minnesota decides what permits to honor but there may be the chance that the Wisconsin permit is all you may need.

    Had the timing worked out differently for me there is a very good chance I would not have even considered a Utah permit. If that was the case then I would not have the bitter feelings I do now about the law changes in Utah. Now that Utah has shown itself to be willing to toss non-residents under the bus to preserve their own convenience it makes me wonder what else they might do in the next five years or so. If residents of Wisconsin want to carry in Minnesota then it is probably in their best interest, in the long term, to get a permit from Minnesota.

    That's just the advice from an Iowa farmboy, and worth every cent you paid for it.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    yeah, what Auric said

    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab
    The new WI law doesn't actually "recognize all state permits..."
    From what I read they will recognize states that do background checks when issuing permits...
    What states do you know of that issue a permit without doing a background check?
    Take your time, comb through www.handgunlaw.us
    I think the answer is zero.

    To the best of my knowledge, the only states WI won't recognize will be the ones that don't issue permits: VT & IL.
    (Which is kind of annoying, that residents have to get 'training', but non-residents can use a permit from any state even if it doesn't require training to get.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    Which ought to be pretty much all of them, minus maybe one or two.
    That's what I was thinking as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    Never quite caught on to the big attraction of the UT permit.
    From what I can tell the attraction comes from several things. One, it's available through the mail. Very attractive to people that cannot, or are unwilling, to travel. The training is lengthy, fingerprints are required, and a background check is run, this makes it recognized in those states that require "substantially similar" laws before recognition is granted.

    The greatest attraction, at least as it seems to me, is that all the above allow people to get the permit in states with laws that recognize out of state permits for residents. This is the "loophole" that Utah just closed and shut off the markets for these permits in states like Texas and Pennsylvania. These out of state permits are so popular in some states that the locals tend to call it the "Utah loophole" or "Florida loophole" since Florida will issue permits under a process similar to Utah.

    The Texas permit is very expensive. The Pennsylvania permit, while technically "shall issue", can be difficult to obtain. Illinois is a "non-ssue" state. All those states are relative "islands" surrounded by states that do not have a shall issue permit for non-residents. Iowa used to be that way. When I was looking for a permit to carry in states on my vacation route a couple years ago there were many people recommending the Utah permit. Now, with law changes in a number of states, the desire for permits from Utah will certainly fade.

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    Cool Pun Alert!! Cover your eyes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    ....

    Never quite caught on to the big attraction of the UT permit.
    The attraction for me in 2008, especially with the $50 Utah training arranged by Iowa Carry, was that it was the most bang-for-the-buck (sorry..) way to CCW in a lot of states. Plus, Wisconsin didn't look like they would legalize CCW any time soon.
    Last edited by davegran; 08-01-2011 at 09:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    The attraction for me in 2008, especially with the $50 Utah training arranged by Iowa Carry, was that it was the most bang-for-the-buck (sorry..) way to CCW in a lot of states. Plus, Wisconsin didn't look like they would legalize CCW any time soon.
    Ok, that's some interesting info. I have some questions for you. Would you have made the effort to get the Utah permit if Wisconsin was shall issue at the time? I realize that some details about out of state recognition and issuance requirements are still up in the air so I'll understand if your answer is vague. What made you choose the Utah permit over another state's permit? Was the Utah permit recommended to you by someone? Do you intend to renew your Utah permit? Again, I'll understand if the answer is vague since there are still a large number of unknowns.

    I did some clicking around www.usacarry.com, www.gun-nuttery.com, and the "maps" section of this website, last night to further understand the attraction that the Utah permit enjoys. It seems to me that Utah has (or rather, had) such wide popularity in the last decade or so because the permit was cheap (compared to other states), the training required only classroom time (unlike the Florida permit and others which require range time), and is available by mail. This gave people that traveled an option to get a permit with wide recognition with little expense or effort. I believe this popularity will fade quickly.

    In the 16 years since Utah started issuing permits there have been a number of states that also started issuing permits. Many states went from "no issue" and "may issue" to "shall issue", and a couple even went to "permitless carry". The Utah permit might still remain popular in the Midwest because of what I've seen one person describe as the "Red River problem". On one side of the Red River is Minnesota, on the other is North Dakota, neither will recognize the other's permit. The Utah permit is recognized in both. One can obtain the Minnesota or North Dakota permits easily but one must actually go to that state to apply, while the Utah permit can be obtained without leaving the state.

    With "shall issue" and "permitless carry" becoming the norm in this federation I can see fewer people seeing a need for a Utah permit, or perhaps any permit. With the home state permit requirement now in effect in Utah they have effectively doubled the price of their permit for many people, making other permits relatively cheaper. For some areas the Utah permit will remain a viable solution, such as the "Red River problem" for those that live in the Red River basin. For everyone else the Utah permit is a solution looking for a problem.

    My advice to people is that the Arizona and Florida permits are better choices for many unless they happen to have the "Red River problem" in permit recognition. From what I have been told the Arizona permit is easy to get by mail. They accept a wide variety of training that one can get cheaply just about anywhere, such as the hunter safety course offered by their own state fish and game office. The fees for the Arizona permit is also lower than the Utah permit. The Florida permit was easy for me to get but the training is a bit harder to find as Florida requires range time. The Florida permit is more expensive but it is possible to make up some of the difference in cost by finding cheaper training. The Florida permit, while more expensive, is recognized in more states than the Utah or Arizona permits.

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    Me thinks this thread has gone just a LONG WAY OFF TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IA_farmboy View Post
    My advice to people is that the Arizona and Florida permits are better choices for many unless they happen to have the "Red River problem" in permit recognition. From what I have been told the Arizona permit is easy to get by mail. They accept a wide variety of training that one can get cheaply just about anywhere, such as the hunter safety course offered by their own state fish and game office. The fees for the Arizona permit is also lower than the Utah permit. The Florida permit was easy for me to get but the training is a bit harder to find as Florida requires range time. The Florida permit is more expensive but it is possible to make up some of the difference in cost by finding cheaper training. The Florida permit, while more expensive, is recognized in more states than the Utah or Arizona permits.


    I've been "pushing" the AZ permit for about a year now. Unless FL doesn't honor one's home state permit, the only difference in reciprocity is WA. AZ is about half the cost of FL initially and 1/3 the cost for renewals, your home state permit PROBABLY will suffice for the training req, FL requires fingerprints be done by LEO, with AZ anybody can do them. Oh, and turn around time mailbox to mailbox is about 2 weeks with AZ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Me thinks this thread has gone just a LONG WAY OFF TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    How so?

    This thread started with the OP informing Wisconsin residents that the recent changes in Wisconsin and Utah laws will change the process one must go through to obtain the popular Utah permit. We've discussed why the law changed and how this will affect the time/cost/effort one must expend to obtain the permit. We've discussed alternative nonresident permits that Wisconsin residents might consider, and the cost/effort/time/benefits of doing so. This all seems on topic to me.

    I will admit that much of my comments mention more than how this will affect Wisconsin residents but I have also tried to make sure I made it clear on how this affects Wisconsin residents specifically. Sure, some of that is not quite on the topic of Wisconsin residents getting Utah permits but it is far from being a "long way off topic". If people are inconvenienced or discouraged from getting Utah permits because of the changes in law it would seem logical to have some discussion on alternatives.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    I've been "pushing" the AZ permit for about a year now. Unless FL doesn't honor one's home state permit, the only difference in reciprocity is WA. AZ is about half the cost of FL initially and 1/3 the cost for renewals, your home state permit PROBABLY will suffice for the training req, FL requires fingerprints be done by LEO, with AZ anybody can do them. Oh, and turn around time mailbox to mailbox is about 2 weeks with AZ.
    Good to know. I assume you speak from first hand experience, correct?

    IIRC, a resident permit to carry weapons will satisfy the training requirement for Arizona. I'm quite certain that a hunter safety class will work. I KNOW that documentation of military service will do since I was considering applying for an Arizona permit at one time and that stuck in my head as I have those forms already. Most everyone here likely has something already that will satisfy the Arizona training requirement. The Arizona permit is recognized in 30+ states. The only downside that I can see of the Arizona permit compared to the Utah one is it does not solve the "Red River problem".

    Minnesota is very picky about what permits it will recognize. I hope they do some reform on that soon, not only for my sake but for all those that wish to visit the state.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IA_farmboy View Post
    Good to know. I assume you speak from first hand experience, correct?

    IIRC, a resident permit to carry weapons will satisfy the training requirement for Arizona. I'm quite certain that a hunter safety class will work. I KNOW that documentation of military service will do since I was considering applying for an Arizona permit at one time and that stuck in my head as I have those forms already. Most everyone here likely has something already that will satisfy the Arizona training requirement. The Arizona permit is recognized in 30+ states. The only downside that I can see of the Arizona permit compared to the Utah one is it does not solve the "Red River problem".

    Minnesota is very picky about what permits it will recognize. I hope they do some reform on that soon, not only for my sake but for all those that wish to visit the state.
    Yes I do. I got the AZ permit in Oct 2010...just a few months after the Con Carry bill passed...opening up a larger list of acceptable training. Previously, training had to be done "in state".

    Now they will accept:

    N. An applicant shall demonstrate competence with a firearm through any of the following:

    1. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class that is available to the general public, that is offered by a law enforcement agency, a junior college, a college or a private or public institution, academy, organization or firearms training school and that is approved by the department of public safety or that uses instructors who are certified by the national rifle association.

    2. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Arizona game and fish department or a similar agency of another state.

    3. Completion of any national rifle association firearms safety or training course.

    4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class that is offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies or other divisions or subdivisions of law enforcement or security enforcement and that is approved by the department of public safety.

    5. Evidence of current military service or proof of honorable discharge or general discharge under honorable conditions from the United States armed forces.

    6. A valid current or expired concealed weapon, firearm or handgun permit or license that is issued by another state or a political subdivision of another state and that has a training or testing requirement for initial issuance.

    7. Completion of any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualification to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties.

    8. Completion of any other firearms safety or training course or class that is conducted by a department of public safety approved or national rifle association certified firearms instructor.
    My PA LTCF did not suffice as no training was needed to get it. Your IA PTC will suffice.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    Yes I do. I got the AZ permit in Oct 2010...just a few months after the Con Carry bill passed...opening up a larger list of acceptable training. Previously, training had to be done "in state".

    Now they will accept:



    My PA LTCF did not suffice as no training was needed to get it. Your IA PTC will suffice.
    Good to know. I have enough documents to show I've met the state training requirements that I can avoid giving a copy of my Iowa PTC to Arizona. If what you are saying is correct then I can see why I had not tried to get the Arizona permit years ago, there was just no way to get the required training in Iowa back then. I'll have to keep the Arizona permit in mind, it seems to be just as widely accepted as the Florida or Utah permits, only cheaper. It's so much cheaper that getting a new Arizona permit is cheaper than renewing the Florida permit. Compared to the Utah permit the fees are much less of a savings but the training can be much cheaper as the options for training is much wider.

    Here's an idea I've considered to solve the "Red River problem" (recognition in both Minnesota and North Dakota), get a Texas concealed carry permit. Texas does not offer training outside of the state but the NRA annual meeting will be in Houston in May 2013. I could get that taken care of when I go down there then. The Texas license is expensive so I'm not sure I'll follow through on that idea. I offer it as another option to Wisconsin residents.

  25. #25
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    well,,,

    i havent really been paying attention to this river problem, but
    handgunlawus clearly showes that the Utah permit Is honored in both minnisota And no. dakota!
    why is nobody else seeing that?
    utah has always been the best out of state permit to get for reciprocity!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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