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Thread: Open Carry rendered somewhat useless?

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    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    Open Carry rendered somewhat useless?

    Am I to understand that for practical purposes to open carry in New Mexico would be severely hindered as you go about your regular routine or errands because it's illegal to OC in a store, gas station or convenience store that sells alcohol or a restaurant that serves alcohol?
    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican 的N MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewZealandAmerican View Post
    Am I to understand that for practical purposes to open carry in New Mexico would be severely hindered as you go about your regular routine or errands because it's illegal to OC in a store, gas station or convenience store that sells alcohol or a restaurant that serves alcohol?
    That depends. Are you in the habit of always having to go into places that sell alcohol, every day?

    If you are properly prepared, you secure your weapon in your vehicle, go in and do your thing, come back out and re-arm. It can be a pain, but they are the laws and you do need to work around them.

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    Regular Member MrGlock's Avatar
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    open carry

    Make sure to check for 'no weapon' signs at every place you frequent. You never know if someone decides to go antigun overnight.

    Also, get a conceal carry license. It helps when it comes to gas stations and supermarkets that sell liquor (because of House Bill 588 passed 2 years ago), but its not a free pass for everywhere you want to go.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    That depends. Are you in the habit of always having to go into places that sell alcohol, every day?

    If you are properly prepared, you secure your weapon in your vehicle, go in and do your thing, come back out and re-arm. It can be a pain, but they are the laws and you do need to work around them.
    Work around them WHILE working on getting them changed right? Having to disarm and re-arm just because someone sells alcohol seems like a hassle to me. Like you said though, I'd rather deal with it and carry than not carry at all.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 07-30-2011 at 12:26 PM.
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    Yup, we need to be sure to keep the pressure on the legislature to respect our OC rights.

    Too many gun rights orgs only focus on adding perks for permit holders, mostly because it's easier to sell decreasing restrictions for people who went through a background check. Sure, the idea is that better things come later, but many are happy to do what they want with the permit.

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    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGlock View Post
    Make sure to check for 'no weapon' signs at every place you frequent. You never know if someone decides to go antigun overnight.

    Also, get a conceal carry license. It helps when it comes to gas stations and supermarkets that sell liquor (because of House Bill 588 passed 2 years ago), but its not a free pass for everywhere you want to go.
    Thanks MrGlock. So if you have a permit and because of the bill you mentioned, does that mean you can still OC in a store that sells alcohol providing that store doesn't restrict carry?
    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican 的N MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewZealandAmerican View Post
    Thanks MrGlock. So if you have a permit and because of the bill you mentioned, does that mean you can still OC in a store that sells alcohol providing that store doesn't restrict carry?
    NO! That's a felony!

    No open carrying anywhere that sells any kind of alcohol, regardless of if you have a CHL.

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    You'd have to throw a cover garment on. 1mm of cloth makes all the difference in the law.

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    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by castiel View Post
    NO! That's a felony!

    No open carrying anywhere that sells any kind of alcohol, regardless of if you have a CHL.
    That law is so ridiculous, that means you would have to call any gas station, or convenience store or supermarket to ask if they have alcohol on the premises in advance before walking in. I think there would be hardly anyplace that doesn't have alcohol on premises.

    I hope you guys can get rid of this ridiculous law so you don't have to do a chicken dance before entering a business because for practical purposes it is a major hinderance for open carry.
    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican 的N MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewZealandAmerican View Post
    Am I to understand that for practical purposes to open carry in New Mexico would be severely hindered as you go about your regular routine or errands because it's illegal to OC in a store, gas station or convenience store that sells alcohol or a restaurant that serves alcohol?
    If you think that law is dumb how about this one if you are not a US citizen you can not get a New Mexico CCW they will only approve one to a US citizen
    A gun Owner Is A Citizen
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    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogueAussie View Post
    If you think that law is dumb how about this one if you are not a US citizen you can not get a New Mexico CCW they will only approve one to a US citizen
    Kia ora, G'day RogueAussie! Are you sure about that? I beleive if you are a permanent resident "green card" holder you can get a carry permit. Anyone else here, can you verify this requirement? I know when i got my Utah carry permit it stated US citizenship or permanent resident status for requirements. I have dual American and New Zealand citizenship not that it is relevant to getting a permit. If what you are saying is accurate RogueAussie, that's piss poor on the part of New Mexico
    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican 的N MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

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    here is the link to the page and a excerpt from the NM CCW law

    http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement/ccw/index.php

    Applicants for a concealed carry handgun license must be U.S. citizens and residents of New Mexico.
    Last edited by RogueAussie; 08-01-2011 at 11:11 PM.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dharma
    You'd have to throw a cover garment on. 1mm of cloth makes all the difference in the law.
    Has anyone tried just tucking a bandanna around the holster so the pistol is covered?
    Would be a lot easier to carry, & less hot, than another layer of shirt.
    (Or someone could get really creative & sew a little hood/drape that would just fit the pistol & holster, or make a fancy tooled leather one.)

    According to this PDF of the law:
    http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement...pleteAct05.pdf
    29-12-2 D "concealed handgun" means a loaded handgun that is not visible to the ordinary observations of a reasonable person.

    I don't know anyone who can see through a bandanna.
    And it doesn't say "discernable", which this certainly would be,
    it says "visible".

    And yes, the law about places that sell alcohol does render OC useless in those stores/restaurants, as well as effectively requiring a permit.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 08-02-2011 at 06:16 PM.

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    Places that serve alcohol are prohibited, not places that sell but do not serve

    Quote Originally Posted by NewZealandAmerican View Post
    Am I to understand that for practical purposes to open carry in New Mexico would be severely hindered as you go about your regular routine or errands because it's illegal to OC in a store, gas station or convenience store that sells alcohol or a restaurant that serves alcohol?
    A google search shows me that the prohibition is on places that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises. This would not include most gas stations or grocery stores.

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    Here is a link to a court case that discusses the law

    Quote Originally Posted by NewZealandAmerican View Post
    Am I to understand that for practical purposes to open carry in New Mexico would be severely hindered as you go about your regular routine or errands because it's illegal to OC in a store, gas station or convenience store that sells alcohol or a restaurant that serves alcohol?
    It is clear that the law applies to a license for an establishment that dispenses alcohol for consumption on the premises.

    http://www.lexisone.com/lx1/caselaw/...=y&l1loc=FCLOW

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    Exclamation

    ccwinstructor- it has been posted (and linked to) here many times that in NM the law applies to BOTH places that serve and places that sell.

    Go right to the source:

    http://www.nmlegis.gov/Sessions/10%2...nal/SB0040.pdf

    edit- that case is from 2003. The new law went into effect LAST YEAR- 2010.
    Last edited by AH.74; 08-04-2011 at 02:11 PM.

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    I'm sorry but all you people that are outside of NM really need to stop posting if you can't look up the actual laws for yourself. The facts are:

    1) Open carry is not allowed in any place that sells alcohol. Doesn't matter if it's for consumption on site or not. It has already been posted that "dispensing" applies to any kind of selling of alcohol.
    2) Concealed carry with a permit is allowed in places that sell alcohol not for consumption on site. (Liquor stores, gas stations, grocery stores, etc)
    3) Concealed carry with a permit is allowed in restaurants that sell beer and wine only for consumption on site. If they sell any other liquor you may not legally carry inside.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by castiel
    I'm sorry but all you people that are outside of NM really need to stop posting if you can't look up the actual laws for yourself.
    A bit harsh... people ask questions to learn.
    Yes, the people answering questions (including you) should be able to cite to authority:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available, is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    Several here have included cites from & links to laws or gov't websites.
    It would be helpful for people like ccwinstructor (not picking on you, you're just the most recent example) to be able to read the actual laws relating to the assertions you (castiel) make in your post (which as far as I can tell - from reading the law myself - are completely correct) & learn where their misconception went wrong.

    As an example, my sig has a link to the new WI cc law, and statute #s for several issues addressed by it. People are able to go read the actual law themselves.
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    The laws have been quoted numerous times in several threads in the New Mexico forum. People keep bringing up the same topics and posting more and more misinformation that has already been posted in other topics.

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    Once again, for everyone's pleasure:

    30-7-3. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments.
    A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
    (1) by a law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of the officer's duties;
    (2) by a law enforcement officer who is certified pursuant to the Law Enforcement Training Act [29-7-1 NMSA 1978] acting in accordance with the policies of the officer's law enforcement agency;
    (3) by the owner, lessee, tenant or operator of the licensed premises or the owner's, lessee's, tenant's or operator's agents, including privately employed security personnel during the performance of their duties;
    (4) by a person carrying a concealed handgun who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license for that gun pursuant to the Concealed Handgun Carry Act [29-19-1 NMSA 1978] on the premises of:
    (a) a licensed establishment that does not sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises; or
    (b) a restaurant licensed to sell only beer and wine that derives no less than sixty percent of its annual gross receipts from the sale of food for consumption on the premises, unless the restaurant has a sign posted, in a conspicuous location at each public entrance, prohibiting the carrying of firearms, or the person is verbally instructed by the owner or manager that the carrying of a firearm is not permitted in the restaurant;
    (5) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;
    (6) by a person on that area of a licensed premises primarily used for vehicular traffic or parking; or
    (7) for the purpose of temporary display, provided that the firearm is:
    (a) made completely inoperative before it is carried onto the licensed premises and remains inoperative while it is on the licensed premises; and
    (b) under the control of the licensee or an agent of the licensee while the firearm is on the licensed premises.
    B. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

    And also:

    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(H): 電ispenser means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person痴 possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises


    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(M): 斗icensed premises means the contiguous areas or areas connected by indoor passageways of a structure and the outside dining, recreation and lounge areas of the structure and the grounds and vineyards of a structure that is a winery that are under the direct control of the licensee and from which the licensee is authorized to sell, serve or allow the consumption of alcoholic beverages under the provisions of its license; provided that in the case of a restaurant 斗icensed premises includes all public and private rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel, golf course or racetrack;

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    Thanks for the update.

    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    ccwinstructor- it has been posted (and linked to) here many times that in NM the law applies to BOTH places that serve and places that sell.

    Go right to the source:

    http://www.nmlegis.gov/Sessions/10%2...nal/SB0040.pdf

    edit- that case is from 2003. The new law went into effect LAST YEAR- 2010.
    Thanks for the update. Have there been any court cases using the new law?

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    It is clear that the law applies to a license for an establishment that dispenses alcohol for consumption on the premises.

    http://www.lexisone.com/lx1/caselaw/...=y&l1loc=FCLOW
    Sorry to have to chime in here, but I sat through and read this case that you provided. Informative, but not on the topic it was used for.

    Had you read your own linked case, you would find..."the statute intends that a person possessing a firearm refrain from entering a liquor establishment. It places the burden upon such person to ascertain whether he or she is entering an establishment with a liquor license." Nowhere in such case does it provide any discrepency, or distinction between on-site or off-site consumption.

  23. #23
    mattwestm
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    OCDO might want to change their map for New Mexico concerning restaurant carry. According to the map, it is legal to carry in places that serve and sell alcohol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    OCDO might want to change their map for New Mexico concerning restaurant carry. According to the map, it is legal to carry in places that serve and sell alcohol.
    It is legal, in beer and wine establishments- not places that serve liquor though. There are two distinct types of licenses.

  25. #25
    mattwestm
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    It is legal, in beer and wine establishments- not places that serve liquor though. There are two distinct types of licenses.
    OK, so you can only CC in places that serve and/or sell only beer or wine? Assuming liquor is sold in grocery stores in NM, that makes them off limits to carry of any kind?

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