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Open Carry rendered somewhat useless?

AH.74

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
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Am I to understand that for practical purposes to open carry in New Mexico would be severely hindered as you go about your regular routine or errands because it's illegal to OC in a store, gas station or convenience store that sells alcohol or a restaurant that serves alcohol?

That depends. Are you in the habit of always having to go into places that sell alcohol, every day?

If you are properly prepared, you secure your weapon in your vehicle, go in and do your thing, come back out and re-arm. It can be a pain, but they are the laws and you do need to work around them.
 

MrGlock

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
72
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
open carry

Make sure to check for 'no weapon' signs at every place you frequent. You never know if someone decides to go antigun overnight.

Also, get a conceal carry license. It helps when it comes to gas stations and supermarkets that sell liquor (because of House Bill 588 passed 2 years ago), but its not a free pass for everywhere you want to go.
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
That depends. Are you in the habit of always having to go into places that sell alcohol, every day?

If you are properly prepared, you secure your weapon in your vehicle, go in and do your thing, come back out and re-arm. It can be a pain, but they are the laws and you do need to work around them.

Work around them WHILE working on getting them changed right? Having to disarm and re-arm just because someone sells alcohol seems like a hassle to me. Like you said though, I'd rather deal with it and carry than not carry at all.
 
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PracticalTactical

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
241
Location
Las Cruces, New Mexico
Yup, we need to be sure to keep the pressure on the legislature to respect our OC rights.

Too many gun rights orgs only focus on adding perks for permit holders, mostly because it's easier to sell decreasing restrictions for people who went through a background check. Sure, the idea is that better things come later, but many are happy to do what they want with the permit.
 

NewZealandAmerican

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Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
348
Location
Greater Salt Lake City Metro area far south suburb
Make sure to check for 'no weapon' signs at every place you frequent. You never know if someone decides to go antigun overnight.

Also, get a conceal carry license. It helps when it comes to gas stations and supermarkets that sell liquor (because of House Bill 588 passed 2 years ago), but its not a free pass for everywhere you want to go.

Thanks MrGlock. So if you have a permit and because of the bill you mentioned, does that mean you can still OC in a store that sells alcohol providing that store doesn't restrict carry?
 

NewZealandAmerican

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
348
Location
Greater Salt Lake City Metro area far south suburb
NO! That's a felony!

No open carrying anywhere that sells any kind of alcohol, regardless of if you have a CHL.

That law is so ridiculous, that means you would have to call any gas station, or convenience store or supermarket to ask if they have alcohol on the premises in advance before walking in. I think there would be hardly anyplace that doesn't have alcohol on premises.

I hope you guys can get rid of this ridiculous law so you don't have to do a chicken dance before entering a business because for practical purposes it is a major hinderance for open carry.
 

RogueWarrior

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Oct 23, 2007
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Am I to understand that for practical purposes to open carry in New Mexico would be severely hindered as you go about your regular routine or errands because it's illegal to OC in a store, gas station or convenience store that sells alcohol or a restaurant that serves alcohol?

If you think that law is dumb how about this one if you are not a US citizen you can not get a New Mexico CCW they will only approve one to a US citizen
 

NewZealandAmerican

Regular Member
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Nov 30, 2007
Messages
348
Location
Greater Salt Lake City Metro area far south suburb
If you think that law is dumb how about this one if you are not a US citizen you can not get a New Mexico CCW they will only approve one to a US citizen

Kia ora, G'day RogueAussie! Are you sure about that? I beleive if you are a permanent resident "green card" holder you can get a carry permit. Anyone else here, can you verify this requirement? I know when i got my Utah carry permit it stated US citizenship or permanent resident status for requirements. I have dual American and New Zealand citizenship not that it is relevant to getting a permit. If what you are saying is accurate RogueAussie, that's piss poor on the part of New Mexico
 

MKEgal

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Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
dharma said:
You'd have to throw a cover garment on. 1mm of cloth makes all the difference in the law.
Has anyone tried just tucking a bandanna around the holster so the pistol is covered?
Would be a lot easier to carry, & less hot, than another layer of shirt.
(Or someone could get really creative & sew a little hood/drape that would just fit the pistol & holster, or make a fancy tooled leather one.)

According to this PDF of the law:
http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement/ccw/docs/completeAct05.pdf
29-12-2 D "concealed handgun" means a loaded handgun that is not visible to the ordinary observations of a reasonable person.

I don't know anyone who can see through a bandanna.
And it doesn't say "discernable", which this certainly would be,
it says "visible".

And yes, the law about places that sell alcohol does render OC useless in those stores/restaurants, as well as effectively requiring a permit. :(
 
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ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
Places that serve alcohol are prohibited, not places that sell but do not serve

Am I to understand that for practical purposes to open carry in New Mexico would be severely hindered as you go about your regular routine or errands because it's illegal to OC in a store, gas station or convenience store that sells alcohol or a restaurant that serves alcohol?

A google search shows me that the prohibition is on places that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises. This would not include most gas stations or grocery stores.
 

ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
Here is a link to a court case that discusses the law

Am I to understand that for practical purposes to open carry in New Mexico would be severely hindered as you go about your regular routine or errands because it's illegal to OC in a store, gas station or convenience store that sells alcohol or a restaurant that serves alcohol?

It is clear that the law applies to a license for an establishment that dispenses alcohol for consumption on the premises.

http://www.lexisone.com/lx1/caselaw...=ejEb.eCga.aadj.ebEj&searchFlag=y&l1loc=FCLOW
 

castiel

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
85
Location
Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA
I'm sorry but all you people that are outside of NM really need to stop posting if you can't look up the actual laws for yourself. The facts are:

1) Open carry is not allowed in any place that sells alcohol. Doesn't matter if it's for consumption on site or not. It has already been posted that "dispensing" applies to any kind of selling of alcohol.
2) Concealed carry with a permit is allowed in places that sell alcohol not for consumption on site. (Liquor stores, gas stations, grocery stores, etc)
3) Concealed carry with a permit is allowed in restaurants that sell beer and wine only for consumption on site. If they sell any other liquor you may not legally carry inside.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
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Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
castiel said:
I'm sorry but all you people that are outside of NM really need to stop posting if you can't look up the actual laws for yourself.
A bit harsh... people ask questions to learn.
Yes, the people answering questions (including you) should be able to cite to authority:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available, is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

Several here have included cites from & links to laws or gov't websites.
It would be helpful for people like ccwinstructor (not picking on you, you're just the most recent example) to be able to read the actual laws relating to the assertions you (castiel) make in your post (which as far as I can tell - from reading the law myself - are completely correct) & learn where their misconception went wrong.

As an example, my sig has a link to the new WI cc law, and statute #s for several issues addressed by it. People are able to go read the actual law themselves.
 

castiel

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
85
Location
Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA
The laws have been quoted numerous times in several threads in the New Mexico forum. People keep bringing up the same topics and posting more and more misinformation that has already been posted in other topics.
 

castiel

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
85
Location
Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA
Once again, for everyone's pleasure:

30-7-3. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments.
A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
(1) by a law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of the officer's duties;
(2) by a law enforcement officer who is certified pursuant to the Law Enforcement Training Act [29-7-1 NMSA 1978] acting in accordance with the policies of the officer's law enforcement agency;
(3) by the owner, lessee, tenant or operator of the licensed premises or the owner's, lessee's, tenant's or operator's agents, including privately employed security personnel during the performance of their duties;
(4) by a person carrying a concealed handgun who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license for that gun pursuant to the Concealed Handgun Carry Act [29-19-1 NMSA 1978] on the premises of:
(a) a licensed establishment that does not sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises; or
(b) a restaurant licensed to sell only beer and wine that derives no less than sixty percent of its annual gross receipts from the sale of food for consumption on the premises, unless the restaurant has a sign posted, in a conspicuous location at each public entrance, prohibiting the carrying of firearms, or the person is verbally instructed by the owner or manager that the carrying of a firearm is not permitted in the restaurant;
(5) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;
(6) by a person on that area of a licensed premises primarily used for vehicular traffic or parking; or
(7) for the purpose of temporary display, provided that the firearm is:
(a) made completely inoperative before it is carried onto the licensed premises and remains inoperative while it is on the licensed premises; and
(b) under the control of the licensee or an agent of the licensee while the firearm is on the licensed premises.
B. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

And also:

NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(H): “dispenser” means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person’s possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises


NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(M): “licensed premises” means the contiguous areas or areas connected by indoor passageways of a structure and the outside dining, recreation and lounge areas of the structure and the grounds and vineyards of a structure that is a winery that are under the direct control of the licensee and from which the licensee is authorized to sell, serve or allow the consumption of alcoholic beverages under the provisions of its license; provided that in the case of a restaurant … “licensed premises” includes all public and private rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel, golf course or racetrack;
 
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