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Thread: Great Cop Encounter, Oceanside California

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Great Cop Encounter, Oceanside California

    Howdy Folks!
    Here is the other side of the coin! A real positive LEO encounter from Oceanside California:



    I tend to be pro-cop because they are our partners in keeping peace in our communities. I've noticed there are some negative attitudes on forums such as ours, and I know there are some cops who earned those negative attitudes because of their behavior. The cop who behaves in a felonious manner, seen in dash cam videos from Canto Ohio, is one glaring example. But it must be remembered that he is a particularly abhorrant abberation in the law enforcement community. The average cop is a dedicated professional that takes up a perilous job to serve their community and fellow citizens. Those dedicated and honorable men and women who serve their community seldom recieve kudos from citizens for a job well done. The bad apple in the barrel seems to get all the attention, like that guy in Canton. But I am certain the vast majority of men and women who wear the badge are just as appalled as we when something like that happens.

    Now here is a cop encounter to show the other side of the spectrum. Here is a cop making a stop to check out an individual with a handgun. We may argue whether he had RAS to stop the citizen or not, and that's another issue for another time. The point here is that the cop behaved professionally and the contact with the citizen was terrific. The citizen, for his own part, also handled this encounter very well. The officer in this video appears to be a great cop and handles the incident extremely well.

    When the day arrives that I experience an LEO encouter, I just hope I meet an officer with the same degree of professionalism. From what I can see, this was a real great encounter for both the officer and the citizen. Well done to the officer from Oceanside!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    And I took the time to send a Letter to the Editor, even though I don't reside in that community, to let the Oceanside PD know that folks are watching and appreciate the Good Officers out there.
    cheers - okboomer
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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Talking

    As long as they are polite and professional when they violate ones civil/human rights...

    You have a long road to go California. I wish you well.

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    The funny thing is that we all praise the LEO for his conduct (and the OCer to to some extent) but the first time I saw this video all the comments for the video were extremely anti-gun and claimed this guy only OC'd to harass the cops and hope to get a reaction on video and scare people driving on the road. They claim the right-wing nut failed miserably because the LEO didn't make a scene over it. There were some of us taking the opportunity to educate, and I think we got through to some (they were asking more in depth questions on legality of OC, not begatively) but the vast majority fail to see the light, and seem to refuse to for fear of blinding themselves I think.
    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    This is the fourth thread about this same video. Aren't there any other "good" cop videos out there?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    This is the fourth thread about this same video. Aren't there any other "good" cop videos out there?
    Howdy Pardner!
    I was afraid of something like that. I never saw this video in all the time I've been on the forum, and must have missed it.
    Thank you for alerting me. I'll see if I can get this thread closed.

    Sorry for the repeat posting. I really didn't mean to do that, and try real hard to avoid such things, but ya know how it is....
    Sometimes ya just miss the bullseye!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I have watched this video again and can find nothing to be happy about. Yes, the Citizen handled himself well. The servant was polite in that he did not prone the carrier out like in some cases.

    The problem I have is the officers insistance that he must determine that the carrier is not breaking the law. Why? Does he stop adults at city parks to verify they are not pedophiles?

    I do not see anything good about this video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    I have watched this video again and can find nothing to be happy about. Yes, the Citizen handled himself well. The servant was polite in that he did not prone the carrier out like in some cases.

    The problem I have is the officers insistance that he must determine that the carrier is not breaking the law. Why? Does he stop adults at city parks to verify they are not pedophiles?

    I do not see anything good about this video.
    +1

    Also, I don't recall 12031(e) requiring a police officer to check.

    By the way, Rscottie, wouldya watchit with that capital C, please. I was nowhere near Oceanside; nor, was I the victim of this particular government abuse.

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    +1

    also, i don't recall 12031(e) requiring a police officer to check.

    By the way, rscottie, wouldya watchit with that capital c, please. i was nowhere near oceanside; nor, was i the victim of this particular government abuse.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    SNIP The servant was polite in that he did not prone the carrier out like in some cases.
    I vaguely recall that the police were rather polite to Mr. St. John, too--while running roughshod all over his 4th Amendment rights. St. John got $20K for their polite violations of his rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    SNIP We may argue whether [the cop] had RAS to stop the citizen or not, and that's another issue for another time. The point here is that the cop behaved professionally...
    WAIT A MINUTE!!

    If you don't know the law governing this police encounter, how exactly are you able to determine the cop behaved professionally?

    Are you saying that since the cop was polite, he was professional? Meaning, politeness = professionalism?
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-30-2011 at 10:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    SNIP The average cop is a dedicated professional that takes up a perilous job to serve their community and fellow citizens. Those dedicated and honorable men and women who serve their community seldom recieve kudos from citizens for a job well done. The bad apple in the barrel seems to get all the attention, like that guy in Canton. But I am certain the vast majority of men and women who wear the badge are just as appalled as we when something like that happens.
    Ummm. The Bureau of Labor Statistics has shown that police are not even in the top ten for most dangerous professions. Its hardly a perilous job. Police themselves will tell you that plenty of them will go years or their whole career without firing their gun at a bad guy.

    Have you ever wondered how a bad apple could stay in the barrel, and so many good apples don't toss him out? Ever heard of things like "testilying" and "Blue Wall of Silence"?

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    When the day arrives that I experience an LEO encouter, I just hope I meet an officer with the same degree of professionalism. From what I can see, this was a real great encounter for both the officer and the citizen. Well done to the officer from Oceanside!
    As long as you have this mindset YOU are a part of the PROBLEM.

    Instead of violating this mans rights at gun point, the officer violated his rights with a smile on his face that would have gone away very quickly if the citizen decided to NOT be violated. This is just bull crap. This would be accepted as a great encounter in some communist country, but not in mine.


    EDIT:

    I'd assume you have no problem with the TSA groping your wife and kids as long as they have a smile the whole time and address you as sir?
    Last edited by Schlitz; 07-31-2011 at 01:49 AM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I vaguely recall that the police were rather polite to Mr. St. John, too--while running roughshod all over his 4th Amendment rights. St. John got $20K for their polite violations of his rights.
    I agree 100%

    Guess I mean professional in that there was no tazer deployed, no 3 cops tackling him, no one getting the AR out of the trunk. Maybe I should just say the officer did not over react as he violated the citizens rights. He was calm, unlike the idiot in Canton (Not Cop Bashing since everyone knows who I am talking about which means they think he is an idiot too).

    The victim of the rights violation did pretty well too under the stress. Living to fight these unconstitutional laws is way better than becoming a martyr. Besides, martyrs cannot talk and it becomes a one sided story, the one told by the police. I particularly liked when the victim declined to place his weapon back in the holster when the officer offered it to him. He did not want to handle the firearm at all, which is what everyone needs to do when stopped. You never know when another officer is going to roll up on the scene and think they see a mere peasant taking a gun away from a fellow officer and them shooting first and asking questions later.

    We have it pretty good in KY and it is hard to fathom that my fellow citizens in California and other places in the USA are treated as criminals for exercising their right of self-preservation.

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    my thoughts exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    As long as they are polite and professional when they violate ones civil/human rights...

    You have a long road to go California. I wish you well.
    Your post mirrored my thoughts. To even approach and engage a citizen for doing something that is a constitutionally enumerate right is hardly my definition of "professional". At the most, he should have/could have just watched from a distance and after noting that the citizen was just going about his business and posing no threat, he could have gone back to whatever he was doing before

    (sigh)

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    The problem in this situation is not the officer. He acquitted himself well.

    The problem is the law in California.

    Of course, some some desperately (and pitifully) want the officer to be the problem.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The problem in this situation is not the officer. He acquitted himself well.

    The problem is the law in California.

    Of course, some some desperately (and pitifully) want the officer to be the problem.
    As is often the case, I agree with eye to some degree but not completely. The law is indeed the problem in the Gulag of KA. Where I disagree is simply that the polite, retired Marine cop did not have to stop him in the first place. There is no requirement to do the e-check--and for a retired Marine his lack of how to clear an M&P is surprising, but that's another issue. The subject was polite and handled himself well. The cop seems like, in general, a good one. But no video showing willful violation of the 4th Amendment is "good" by any measure. It is probably training that compelled him to make the stop--if that is the policy of the cops there and I bet it is. But he had no requirement or standing to ask for ID. He backed off when the subject declined as opposed to acting like a pos thug. I suppose that's something. In the PDR, you take what you can get.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Folks!
    Here is the other side of the coin! A real positive LEO encounter from Oceanside California:



    SNIP>>>>> The point here is that the cop behaved professionally and the contact with the citizen was terrific. The citizen, for his own part, also handled this encounter very well. The officer in this video appears to be a great cop and handles the incident extremely well.

    When the day arrives that I experience an LEO encouter, I just hope I meet an officer with the same degree of professionalism. From what I can see, this was a real great encounter for both the officer and the citizen. Well done to the officer from Oceanside!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    The officer and the "subject." Citizens have 4th Amendment rights; this guy did not. E-checks don't need even RAS. Unloaded carry of a handgun in the Gulag of KA is all they need to detain--oh, just for a little while, a person engaged in peaceful transit or commerce. Seemed like a nice cop, as I said, but the encounter never should have taken place.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Look, you can bemoan the way the officer tried to get the citizen to violate his own civil rights, but when the citizen refused to do it to himself the officer accepted it with politeness and respect. This acceptance by the officer is what I feel is the shining star of this encounter.

    Think about it for a minute ... if we can 'retrain' LEO that they DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO INSIST on us violating our civil rights, then more will accept our standing on our civil rights. Now, there is also a prime example of how LEO are able to get us citizens to 'give a little' on our civil rights when he asked Jeremy what his name was, then when he saw Jeremy was hesitant, he introduced himself which elicited Jeremy's first name

    We are taught to be polite, and that officer used that against Jeremy! I could almost feel the shiver that must have went up Jeremy's spine when he seemed to realize what he had just done

    As for RAS, he had that because of the calls to dispatch. Asking who you are and what you are doing is fine ... it is just a question. But, for decades we have been trained, in school, by parents, etc. that we should cooperate with LEO. Whether it is under the guise of "help us to catch the BG" or "help us to help you" ... either way, we all need to retrain to stop this from continuing to erode our Civil Rights under the color of law.

    I still think this was a great example of a good cop and good interaction. The more support this cop gets, the more his supervisors will look at how he conducts himself, and, maybe they will start including it in their training program.
    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    SNIP The more support this cop gets, the more his supervisors will look at how he conducts himself, and, maybe they will start including it in their training program.
    CA cops don't need support in order to conduct themselves well. As a counter-point, it would work just as well to tell cops, "you'd better act this way, cause those open carry guys will raise a huge fuss if you screw it up. We think some of them might even be looking for a reason to sue you."

    They're Americans. The Bill of Rights belongs to them, too. There is no reason at all they would need special training in politeness. For those who are not naturally polite, they need training in deviousness--the most dangerous cop, legally speaking, is the polite one, the one who lulls you into forgetting it is an adversarial encounter. For those cops who are going to be jerks about it, against policy, its not training that is needed. It is disciplinary action.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    Look, you can bemoan the way the officer tried to get the citizen to violate his own civil rights, but when the citizen refused to do it to himself the officer accepted it with politeness and respect. This acceptance by the officer is what I feel is the shining star of this encounter.

    Think about it for a minute ... if we can 'retrain' LEO that they DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO INSIST on us violating our civil rights, then more will accept our standing on our civil rights. Now, there is also a prime example of how LEO are able to get us citizens to 'give a little' on our civil rights when he asked Jeremy what his name was, then when he saw Jeremy was hesitant, he introduced himself which elicited Jeremy's first name

    We are taught to be polite, and that officer used that against Jeremy! I could almost feel the shiver that must have went up Jeremy's spine when he seemed to realize what he had just done

    As for RAS, he had that because of the calls to dispatch. Asking who you are and what you are doing is fine ... it is just a question. But, for decades we have been trained, in school, by parents, etc. that we should cooperate with LEO. Whether it is under the guise of "help us to catch the BG" or "help us to help you" ... either way, we all need to retrain to stop this from continuing to erode our Civil Rights under the color of law.

    I still think this was a great example of a good cop and good interaction. The more support this cop gets, the more his supervisors will look at how he conducts himself, and, maybe they will start including it in their training program.
    He had no RAS. None. The stop was made because of the KA e-law, period. It is completely optional for the cop and this one--nice guy or not, chose to use an unconstitutional law to detain, however briefly, a subject of the Gulag. No other state has a law like this and it exists solely to keep the subjects who would dare carry even unloaded under the boot of the rulers.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    You may be able to win a legal argument, in front of a judge. You can never win a policy argument. Why stop?....Oh, just cuz I can. That was a bad cop video, again.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    He had no RAS. None. The stop was made because of the KA e-law, period. It is completely optional for the cop and this one--nice guy or not, chose to use an unconstitutional law to detain, however briefly, a subject of the Gulag. No other state has a law like this and it exists solely to keep the subjects who would dare carry even unloaded under the boot of the rulers.
    Hey, GS! You'll love this. Did you know that in 1939 Life magazine compared the FBI with the NKVD? They said something like, "The NKVD is a national police force like the FBI." Ohhhhhhh, is that too rich, or what?

    Its buried in this video: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/world...-closed-doors/

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    I had not seen this video before. I wonder what would have happened if the "polite" officer had asked the citizen to allow himself to be disarmed for "officer safety", only to have the citizen politely say "Officer, you have nothing to fear from me, but if you are concerned for your safety, just allow me to be on my way so you will have no further concern". After all, the cop had absolutely no RAS to suspect the citizen of any wrongdoing, and no reason to detain him for legally carrying the pistol.

    I only occasionally check out stories from other states, but here I am astounded by what is called a "great cop encounter"! I'm not saying something like this coudn't happen in VA, but if it did, it would have been labeled a clear violation of basic rights, and while we here would have complied with the LEO's demands (they were not just requests), the poster would have been strongly encouraged to write to the chief of police to protest, and consult an attorney for a possible lawsuit. People have won lawsuts here for little more than what happpened on this video. I've carried a (loaded) pistol openly almost every damn day for the last 4+ years, and have yet to have an LEO "detain" me for such. I've lobbied at the state assembly every year during the same period, and carried the same loaded pistol there. California has a LOOONG way to go. We didn't get to our place by waiting for the authorities to see the error of their ways and give us our rights, we fought tooth and nail for them over the last 6-7 years, and refused to give in. We continue to work at keeping the freedoms we deserve. You folks can't expect much if you don't realize when you are being screwed, and don't do anythng about it when do realize it.

    A typical interaction here:

    "Good afternoon, sir."

    " 'Afternoon officer.

    "I see you're open carrying there. What is that, a SIG?"

    "No sir, It's a Walther PPS".

    "Do you like it?"

    "You bet, its really comfortable and ......blah blah blah.

    (If I were in a hurry, I'd say "I'd love to talk about this some more, but I'm in a hurry today. You have a nice day." and the LEO would say "You take care, now".


    A world of difference from the "great LEO encounter". Things CAN be better for you all, but only if you refuse to tolerate being pushed around.

  25. #25
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Closed as duplicate at OP's request.

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