Encounters first month OCing

It's been about a month since I decided to start OCing. Here is my post about that http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...o-OC-as-much-as-feasable....It-s-tooo-F-N-hot!!!

Since then I have really only had positive encounters with people.

Home Depot guy: "nice gun” we chatted about OC vs. CC

Phoenix PD: rang my bell on our side gate ...I had just kicked off my shoes while sitting in a recliner but was still OCing with an extra mag, oc spray and an ASP baton on my belt. Upon hearing the side gate bell I walked out the front door in my socks to see an officer at the gate. Me: How can I help you?' PD:" I just wanted to let you know your garage door was left open" I thanked him and mentioned it must have been my wife who had left earlier in a friends car. He didn't say anything else as I opened the gate and walked around to the front to see the open garage door. He just got in his cruiser and left as I waved to him. I can only imagine what he was thinking seeing the guy in socks OCing answering the bell!!! LOL

Circle K clerk: " Nice gun...what type of loads?"

Fellow OCer and Kimber owner shopping at Fry..."what kind of gun?" He had Kimber double stack. Discussed the merits of OCing.

Cashier at Mexican food place ""what kind of gun?"

Went to Wells Fargo to cash a check from a gig...went to back area to have check verified...teller/mgr didn't even flinch, was more interested in trying to get me to open an account....on the way out I ran into my best customer waiting in line. He noticed me so I went over to say hi... figuring well, he is going to notice me OCing, let's see how mixing politics and business goes. After a bit of chit chat I come to find out he has his CCW and usually carries a Glock...no wonder he didn't put up a no guns sign in his establishment that serves alcohol.

So far I have not received one negative comment.

Sounds like everything went exactly as it should.

Lose the spray and baton. That's mall ninja crap. If you carry a gun... carry a cell phone. Other than that... maybe a knife if circumstances require it... like crossing desert country.

The N word

Sonora Rebel said:

Lose the spray and baton. That's mall ninja crap. If you carry a gun... carry a cell phone. Other than that... maybe a knife if circumstances require it... like crossing desert country.

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LOL just had to.......can't say I even come close to fitting the description...I only have one gun!..LOL
Definition of a mall ninja
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mall%20ninja
The Ultimate mall ninja thread
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=79487
Elite team fighting...too funny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fdd3aHyj20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLgGNhkGYQ

So in an unavoidable physical altercation my only defense option should be call the police, hand to hand fight or pull my gun?

I might consider losing the baton as I just added the OC spray...either way I prefer to have a non or less than lethal option. I do carry a phone but like the saying goes.."when seconds count, police are minutes away" Some people like you feel comfortable with a knife or two, others carry a BUG or two. Choosing to carry OC spray and or baton is comfortable for me. Just as it is a snap judgment for those who might see a big cowboy with a cross draw pistol getting out of a hotrod at the grocery store to say " man that guy must think it's still the wild west and he is Wyatt Earp" likewise saying anyone choosing to carry a baton, OC spray or a stun gun/taser for self defense is a mall ninja. I wouldn't want to deter anyone from choosing a system of personal defense that works for them.

Now when I start posting stories of how I modified my AR15 and AK47 and the time I saved a bus full of nuns from 3 knife wielding BGs........

I have opened carried my USP compact for the past 3 months in the Phoenix area and have not had a single person say anything to me. I guess that is a good thing.

Only one little girl got scared and ran to tell her mother, which I actually felt bad about.

Phxbluesman said:

LOL just had to.......can't say I even come close to fitting the description...I only have one gun!..LOL
Definition of a mall ninja
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mall%20ninja
The Ultimate mall ninja thread
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=79487
Elite team fighting...too funny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fdd3aHyj20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLgGNhkGYQ

So in an unavoidable physical altercation my only defense option should be call the police, hand to hand fight or pull my gun?

I might consider losing the baton as I just added the OC spray...either way I prefer to have a non or less than lethal option. I do carry a phone but like the saying goes.."when seconds count, police are minutes away" Some people like you feel comfortable with a knife or two, others carry a BUG or two. Choosing to carry OC spray and or baton is comfortable for me. Just as it is a snap judgment for those who might see a big cowboy with a cross draw pistol getting out of a hotrod at the grocery store to say " man that guy must think it's still the wild west and he is Wyatt Earp" likewise saying anyone choosing to carry a baton, OC spray or a stun gun/taser for self defense is a mall ninja. I wouldn't want to deter anyone from choosing a system of personal defense that works for them.

Now when I start posting stories of how I modified my AR15 and AK47 and the time I saved a bus full of nuns from 3 knife wielding BGs........

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And... how long 'you've actually been carrying a gun here? You're not a cop or a security weenie. You lose a fight... you lose the gun... you lose. If you're not willing to use the gun, don't carry it. All that other junk is just clutter.

Sonora Rebel said:

And... how long 'you've actually been carrying a gun here? You're not a cop or a security weenie. You lose a fight... you lose the gun... you lose. If you're not willing to use the gun, don't carry it. All that other junk is just clutter.

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I sorta agree, in a high stress situation do you really want to have multiple choices? There have been stories of police accidentally shooting people when they meant to draw their taser. Remember a baton can be considered deadly force, if you feel you need deadly force that is what your gun is for. I carry pepper spray only to places I can't carry my gun, i.e. work.

Who said anything about not being willing to lose the gun?

That is not my point ....It's not about being willing to lose the gun...that is just a fact of carrying we all have to accept. It is about having a defense option before I have to use deadly force. Not every self-defense encounter warrants the use of deadly force. Just because some drunk guy wants to throw a punch doesn't mean I have to shoot him. Some mace in the face seems like a better choice than drawing my weapon....nowhere to go from there but bang.

It seems kind of odd that people that feel so strongly about the right to choose to defend themself would then criticize others on the method that they choose. If you want to get punisher skull grips for your gun and carry a knife when crossing desert country I say go for it. I prefer to carry a 16" Airweight baton (6" collapsed) and a small OC spray on my weak side. Don’t feel cluttered at all.

I guess I could add to my encounters first month OCing that the only negative response I got was from here...ironic

I just wanted to say that even though I got riled by the mall ninja thing I appreciate the input really
Sonora Rebel... thanks for the no nonsense comments
thebigsd...I appreciate the comments on the tactical merit of carrying too many options

Phxbluesman said:

I just wanted to say that even though I got riled by the mall ninja thing I appreciate the input really
Sonora Rebel... thanks for the no nonsense comments
thebigsd...I appreciate the comments on the tactical merit of carrying too many options

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Don't be too offended by anyone. I am of the firm belief that there are very few people on this site who actually intend to be offensive. If there's not some kind of debate in a thread, it's pretty unusual. Don't be put off by anybody and stick around. Things get better as you get a feel for the forum.

In desert country... a knife isn't for defense... it's for survival (like water). Deadly force is not for arguments. Avoid them... walk away. Familiarize yourself with defensive display (it's legal in AZ). Consider 'force disparity'... 'n such situations.

There's a saying from long ago: 'Never pick a fight with an old man, he'll prob'ly just kill you.'

I have always prefered to use my head to avoid any sticky situation. I have always been fond of the saying that when you exercise your right to bear arms you lose several other rights.
The right to...

Get in the face of the guy who just made a lewd comment to your woman.

Confront the guy who just cut you off in traffic or stole your parking spot.

Respond to the guy who wants to pick a fight with anything else but excuse me and a quick exit.

To be the aggressor in any situation.


My feet pointed in the opposite direction of any trouble is always going to my first tool out of the box!


Video on Arizona's defensive display law

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwq1Zh5UWN0

What else do you carry for self defense thread
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?91544-Besides-a-gun-what-do-you-carry-for-defense-(If-anything)

Phxbluesman said:

...SNIP...


Video on Arizona's defensive display law

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwq1Zh5UWN0

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That one gentleman seemed upset that if he wanted to engage in fisticuffs with another citizen, that said citizen may wish to decline his invitation for fisticuffs and defensively display his weapon to emphasize his desire not to fisticuffs.

Such a rude place Arizona is.

Phoenix David said:

That one gentleman seemed upset that if he wanted to engage in fisticuffs with another citizen, that said citizen may wish to decline his invitation for fisticuffs and defensively display his weapon to emphasize his desire not to fisticuffs.

Such a rude place Arizona is.

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Possible reasons for doing something wrong to him include:
Looking at him hard
Wearing the wrong color clothing
Not making a donation to his civic organization

Look familiar? http://www.azcorrections.gov/inmate_datasearch/results_Minh.aspx?InmateNumber=233069&LastName=SANCHEZ&FNMI=J&SearchType=SearchInet

I like having Fox Labs pepper spray (in my pocket) for bad dog encounters while I am riding my bike or in the park. Pepper spray is also good if one (or more but not enough to really be classified as disparity of force) unarmed individual gets belligerent or is acting crazy and while you don't fear for your life, you do fear a physical assault.

I like having Fox Labs pepper spray (in my pocket) for bad dog encounters while I am riding my bike or in the park. Pepper spray is also good if one (or more but not enough to really be classified as disparity of force) unarmed individual gets belligerent or is acting crazy and while you don't fear for your life, you do fear a physical assault.

I agree completely. I always have some mace on my keychain for the exact reason you have mentioned. The baton, though, I think is overkill.

Ok, this is getting off topic a bit but…

The baton was actually my first choice as a less than lethal option, I only just recently added the OC spray.

I know a baton is considered a lethal weapon as well and that is one of the reasons I chose it over OC spray first. Here was my reasoning….

If it is windy or raining OC spray can be ineffective.
You could inadvertently spray and disable yourself or others/help in close quarters or in the above situation. (see video)
That bottle of OC spray that you’ve been carrying around for months could fail to deploy. (They do say test it regularly)
A determined attacker could fight through the effects enough to still do me or my loved ones harm. (see video)
No way to dial up force if the situation escalates.
In a situation where using OC spray or discharging my weapon isn’t an option (as in a crowded room) the baton might be the best/only option for stopping a threat. Not to mention a baton can be used to break glass in an emergency or any other situation where a sturdy chunk of metal might come in handy. Also I can add the led endcap and use it as a flashlight.

OC spray in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2O2Yvdr-HLQ#t=37s

As far as being overkill, I guess it all depends. The cops in the above video sure needed something else besides OC spay. What if instead of the baton I chose to carry 2 spare magazines and or a BUG as so many do? Or how about a tactical knife or two? My baton, OC spay and spare mag take up less space on my weak side than a lot of double mag pouches or mag and light/knife combos.

The only thing I would say is that if you choose to carry a baton, practice drawing and using it just as you would your firearm. I carry a 16” ASP airweight (6”collapsed @ .94lbs) and have a cheap Taiwanese one I use to practice. The same goes with OC spray, dry practice drawing so that you are confident you can draw quickly and have the nozzle pointed in the right direction, don't be like that cop in the video, it took like 8 seconds to draw and fire his OC spray.

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I'm by no means a defense expert, but I thought I'd weigh in on what you've got going on here.

First off, I have to agree that you've got clutter. You have a lethal option, a non-lethal option, and one that is arguably both (baton). Then there's the knife...which doesn't count for either and I'll get to that in a minute. The baton and the spray, IMO, serve the same purpose. As does your gun and baton. I'm going to assume that since you're here, you have zero interest in getting rid of the gun. I can't bring myself to argue against a non-lethal option, so let's keep the spray-as you say you need it in disarmed situations.

Then there's your knife. My pocket knife is probably one of my most used tools that I own. I'm sure everyone here can say that. One thing you should realize though is that a knife is a piss poor excuse for a defenseive weapon. A knife, as a weapon, is an offensive tool, relying on the user's skill and stealth to be able to make contact with skin. Against a gun, you have no hope. Against a bat or other melee weapon, you have work cut out for you. Against another knife...do you know how to fight with a knife? I sure don't. A knife fight is one of the scariest confrontations I could think of. About the only thing it's good for is against an unarmed attacker, and even then it wont do much good unless your attacker is drunk, or you know how to knife fight. Plus you already have your spray.

The baton serves a role that you already have tools for. It's not needed, so I say ditch it when you're armed. If you go somewhere where you have to disarm, sure bring it along so that you still have a lethal option if that makes you feel safer. But carrying it with the pistol gives you too many options that your mind isn't going to be able to reliably sort through in a defensive situation. I say keep it at home unless you know you're going to have to disarm. Even as a simple tool I can't see it doing anything your hands, your knife, and your brain can't accomplish.

I don’t carry a knife nor do I feel comfortable using one as a defensive option.

What I did say was "My baton, OC spay and spare mag takes up less space on my weak side than a lot of double mag pouches or mag and light/knife combos." I have a Leatherman Juice xe6 I carry in my front pocket but I certainly don't consider it a defensive option. I do however feel quite comfortable with the baton.

To me the options seem pretty simple. If I am reaching to my strong side I am drawing my firearm because it is a life threatening situation. If I am reaching to my weak side it is a less than lethal scenario. Most likely I will go for the OC spray but the baton is there as an option I prefer to have at my disposal.

Phxbluesman said:

I don’t carry a knife...

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I must not be reading that correctly, because to me it almost looks like you're saying that you don't keep a knife handy on your person as a matter of course. Obviously that can't be right.