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Thread: Canyon County Fair

  1. #1
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Canyon County Fair

    Does anyone know if the Canyon County Fair grounds are public or private. I went to the fair Friday and the signs said no weapons; is it private property or public???

    And does anyone know what the legal OC status of the grounds is?

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    First, it's interesting to read this:

    http://www.canyoncountyfair.org/general-info/about/

    Seems they want to do mandatory searches and no weapons are allowed.

    On the main Canyon County website, it lists a county fair commissioner on it's contact page.

    http://www.canyonco.org/Contact_Information/

    I sent an email to the county asking about it's status as county property. I will let you know what I hear in return. If it is indeed county property, you don't need to submit to any unwarranted search nor should you be required to give up your gun. Good luck.

    Just for review, here is the email/response I received back from Ada County when we thought it was going to be an issue at their fairgrounds. Mr Patrick Calley's response might come in handy when you write the Canyon County people to inquire about their illegal sign-age and enforcement of personal preferences instead of the law they were hired to defend.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ern-Idaho-Fair
    Last edited by IndianaBoy79; 08-01-2011 at 12:18 PM.

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    response to email

    Wow, that was quick. Here is the response:

    "The County is supposed to own the main Fairgrounds building. The City
    of Caldwell holds the title to this property. Since I have been a
    Commissioner (5years) I have been pressing that issue of the title
    deliverance to the County. Caldwell refuses to comply. Our Attorneys
    cannot force the City to deliver the contract without expensive,
    relationship damaging litigation, which I do not support at this time.
    Why they refuse is not evident from them.

    There is a brief but accurate history.

    Feel free to call should this not answer your request adequately.

    Steven J. Rule
    Canyon County Commissioner
    District #1

    "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public
    debt reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and
    controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed,
    lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of
    living on public assistance." Cicero-55 BC"

    I think that pretty much answers it...city or county, doesn't matter, it's government.

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    When do we want to go?

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    Darn! I was out of town for the entire weekend. Western Idaho Fair is coming up tho. Perhaps we can discuss at the next meeting which is the 8th at Wild Bills BBQ in Meridian. Linder and Cherry! I'll be there for dinner off the menu at 6:30!

  6. #6
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    Pirvate or Public????

    Quick way to found out is to call the planning and/or building Dept. They will know and can tell you about any property if you have the address.

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    The issue they might cite is if it's a private company holding the fair, with admissions fees, they can stop you from carrying. Because it would be viewed as a private property lease for the period of the fair.

    This is what I was told in regards to the gun show.

    If the county/city is holding the fair, and it's run by them, then they can't.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
    The issue they might cite is if it's a private company holding the fair, with admissions fees, they can stop you from carrying. Because it would be viewed as a private property lease for the period of the fair.

    This is what I was told in regards to the gun show.

    If the county/city is holding the fair, and it's run by them, then they can't.
    The person who explained that to you is wrong. It may be the position they take, but I don't think it would hold up if someone had the time and money to take them to court over the matter. Without getting into a lengthy discussion on property rights, I'll try to quickly explain. Property rights exist in a "bundle". For instance, oil rights, water rights, the right to build on it, etc. At the highest level of ownership, you have the right to do ANYTHING with your property. No one has that kind of ownership these days. It is always encumbered by zoning, taxation, neighborhood covenants, etc. When you rent property, you usually rent a portion of those rights. For instance, I currently rent but I don't have the right to move walls or even change the carpet without permission. They reserved that right and kept that part of the bundle for themselves.

    In Idaho, government owned property is often encumbered by the same things private property is. It is also encumbered by our state constitution and the laws our legislature has passed. One of these is the right to regulate open and concealed carry. Our constitution protects the first and our legislature protects concealed. That right is left to the people...you and I own a small portion of the property rights to state owned land. When the state goes to lease its land to a private property, it can only lease the property rights it owns. Since local government can't regulate concealed carry, and the state can't regulate open carry, the state can't lease that right to someone else. Clear as mud, right?

    So you know I'm not full of hot air, I was a licensed real estate appraiser for 6 years. The "bundle of rights" is basic real estate law. Hope this helped.

  9. #9
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Very clear, I was thinking the same thing. It would be like me renting out your car to a third person without your permission.

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    I think the argument is kind of like public housing.

    While the public housing is limited in what they can do, the renter is still looked at as "private property" for the sake of their dwelling.

    They could deny you the right to carry in their establishment.

  11. #11
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
    I think the argument is kind of like public housing.

    While the public housing is limited in what they can do, the renter is still looked at as "private property" for the sake of their dwelling.

    They could deny you the right to carry in their establishment.
    I don't think that would hold up as the land is owned by the tax payers. Being a tax payer I would trump the renter.

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    You try barging into the home of someone renting an apartment building owned by the county.

    We'll see if you end up in jail or not :P

    I don't disagree with you guys, I'm just trying to show the angle they are coming from.

  13. #13
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    I didn't think it was legal for the county to rent appartments....do they run ***** houses also?

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    This is something we really need to see through. If IndianaBoy is right, I'd like to force the State to allow us to open carry at the damn GUN SHOW without grievance! It really is asinine that this happens at all around here but I feel especially angry about this happening in a place where guns are GUARANTEED to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clarkebar View Post
    This is something we really need to see through. If IndianaBoy is right, I'd like to force the State to allow us to open carry at the damn GUN SHOW without grievance! It really is asinine that this happens at all around here but I feel especially angry about this happening in a place where guns are GUARANTEED to be.
    It will take some money and a lawsuit. You can try writing the county, our legislators, etc...but no one is likely to do anything constructive until the matter is clarified in court.

    Zhukov, you're quite right about government property that is rented out as someones home. Public housing is under the control of federal and state laws. Your home has a much larger protection than say the property your business is located on. There is a big difference between the government subsidizing peoples homes as a welfare benefit and the government renting land out to make a profit on. The first is to help someone have a place to live because they might be in a cardboard box otherwise. The second is to make a profit off of an event that is open to the public. The laws are very different when talking about someones castle.

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