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Doj faq is here

Uziel Gal

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
93
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
interesting stance

The DOJ's position on transportation in the FAQ says that one must carry "out of reach" for long guns and handguns without a license. Something to think about until we get our "licenses" or if someone is thinking about not applying.
 

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Good Find. Interesting that it takes over 50 pages FAQ's For 21 pages or so of law..

Snip for transporting in a vehicle:

If I do not have a CCW license how do I transport weapons in a vehicle?
A. Handguns
The law now allows a person to do the following without a CCW permit:
• place, possess, or transport a handgun in a vehicle without being unloaded or encased. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(b).
• load a handgun in a vehicle. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(c).
• operate an all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with a handgun in the operator’s possession. Wis. Stat. § 23.33(3)(a).
• place, possess, or transport a handgun in or on a motorboat with the motor running without being unloaded or encased. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(a), (b), (c).
• place, possess, or transport a handgun in or on a noncommercial aircraft.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Persons who do not have a CCW license may still not carry weapons concealed. In a vehicle this means that the firearm cannot be hidden or concealed and within reach.

This STILL doesn't answer the question of what a CONCEALED weapon IS.

Can we open carry in a vehicle without a license? Seems to me that if we can POSSESS it in a vehicle without a license we can open carry it. What the heck is the difference?!
 

Trip20

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
526
Location
Wausau Area
Snip for transporting in a vehicle:

If I do not have a CCW license how do I transport weapons in a vehicle?
A. Handguns
The law now allows a person to do the following without a CCW permit:
• place, possess, or transport a handgun in a vehicle without being unloaded or encased. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(b).
• load a handgun in a vehicle. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(c).
• operate an all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with a handgun in the operator’s possession. Wis. Stat. § 23.33(3)(a).
• place, possess, or transport a handgun in or on a motorboat with the motor running without being unloaded or encased. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(a), (b), (c).
• place, possess, or transport a handgun in or on a noncommercial aircraft.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Persons who do not have a CCW license may still not carry weapons concealed. In a vehicle this means that the firearm cannot be hidden or concealed and within reach.

This STILL doesn't answer the question of what a CONCEALED weapon IS.

Can we open carry in a vehicle without a license? Seems to me that if we can POSSESS it in a vehicle without a license we can open carry it. What the heck is the difference?!


Red/bolding done by me.

So the conflict here seems to be between the law allowing a non-licensee the ability to possess a loaded firearm in a vehicle, and the law stating it may not be "hidden or concealed" and with in reach.

If the law clearly states a non-licensee may possess a loaded firearm in a vehicle, I don't see how a properly holstered firearm carried openly inside the vehicle could be considered hidden or concealed. How else would a reasonable man expect to possess a loaded firearm if not in such a manner?
 

jeff niles

Regular Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
68
Location
Milton, WI
oc loaded in car or cycle

Snip for transporting in a vehicle:

If I do not have a CCW license how do I transport weapons in a vehicle?
A. Handguns
The law now allows a person to do the following without a CCW permit:
• place, possess, or transport a handgun in a vehicle without being unloaded or encased. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(b).
• load a handgun in a vehicle. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(c).
• operate an all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with a handgun in the operator’s possession. Wis. Stat. § 23.33(3)(a).
• place, possess, or transport a handgun in or on a motorboat with the motor running without being unloaded or encased. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(a), (b), (c).
• place, possess, or transport a handgun in or on a noncommercial aircraft.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Persons who do not have a CCW license may still not carry weapons concealed. In a vehicle this means that the firearm cannot be hidden or concealed and within reach.

This STILL doesn't answer the question of what a CONCEALED weapon IS.

Can we open carry in a vehicle without a license? Seems to me that if we can POSSESS it in a vehicle without a license we can open carry it. What the heck is the difference?!

Can we do this now? Jeff Niles
 

BROKENSPROKET

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,199
Location
Trempealeau County
The DOJ's position on transportation in the FAQ says that one must carry "out of reach" for long guns and handguns without a license. Something to think about until we get our "licenses" or if someone is thinking about not applying.

NO, that is not what is says. It can be 'with in reach' if it is not hidden or concealed.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Persons who do not have a CCW license may still not carry weapons concealed. In a vehicle this means that the firearm cannot be hidden or concealed AND within reach.

Some think I am crazy, but a Serpa holster is getting mounted on my dash board by 11/1/11 and until I get my CWL.
 

Drakon

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
47
Location
Madison
Are there any other limits on firearms in school zones?

Yes. It remains a felony for any who knowingly, or with reckless disregard for the safety of others, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm at a place the person knows is in or on or within 1,000 feet of school grounds unless:

• On private property not part of school grounds
• For use in a program approved by a school in the school zone by an individual participating in the program.
• By an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual.

CCW FAQ 08/01/11
- 38 -
• By a law enforcement officer or state certified commission warden acting in his or her official capacity.
Wis. Stat. 948.605(3)(a) and (b).


Starting from bottom of page 37. It is still a Felony to discharge a weapon on public grounds within 1000 feet of school grounds knowingly. It makes no difference if it is justifiable. So you can carry but you can't defend yourself.
 

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
So If You Have To Defend Yourself In A GFSZ...Make Sure To Run To Private Property!

Starting from bottom of page 37. It is still a Felony to discharge a weapon on public grounds within 1000 feet of school grounds knowingly. It makes no difference if it is justifiable. So you can carry but you can't defend yourself.


Yep, run to the other side of the street and get onto someone's front yard on the OTHER side of the sidewalk. Then defend yourself! Right. How absurd this "law" is.


As for carrying within a vehicle I agree that if you POSSESS it IT can be open carried.
 

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
I Agree!

Red/bolding done by me.

So the conflict here seems to be between the law allowing a non-licensee the ability to possess a loaded firearm in a vehicle, and the law stating it may not be "hidden or concealed" and with in reach.

If the law clearly states a non-licensee may possess a loaded firearm in a vehicle, I don't see how a properly holstered firearm carried openly inside the vehicle could be considered hidden or concealed. How else would a reasonable man expect to possess a loaded firearm if not in such a manner?

My point was the "law" never states anything about "open carry" in or on a "vehicle". I agree that "possessing" is no different than "open carrying" since you ARE possessing it while you are open carrying.

Either way we can't do this legally until 1NOV2011.
 
M

McX

Guest
there was no mention of cheeseburgers in the entire document, i was not impressed.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Drakon said:
Starting from bottom of page 37. It is still a Felony to discharge a weapon on public grounds within 1000 feet of school grounds knowingly. It makes no difference if it is justifiable. So you can carry but you can't defend yourself.

See pg. 35 of the FAQ (the page is numbered 28, but put 35 in the search box).
First question: "Are laws that prohibit the discharge of firearms... still valid?"
Second paragraph in the answer:
"... such ordinances do not apply if the person's conduct is justified..." 66.0409(3)(b)
That's on pg. 3 of the law, top of the RH column.

DOJ should have mentioned that again on the bottom of pg 37 (put 44 in the search box).
One more example of them screwing up.
(I've sent Annette a longish email about this already...)
 

BROKENSPROKET

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
2,199
Location
Trempealeau County
See pg. 35 of the FAQ (the page is numbered 28, but put 35 in the search box).
First question: "Are laws that prohibit the discharge of firearms... still valid?"
Second paragraph in the answer:
"... such ordinances do not apply if the person's conduct is justified..." 66.0409(3)(b)
That's on pg. 3 of the law, top of the RH column.

DOJ should have mentioned that again on the bottom of pg 37 (put 44 in the search box).
One more example of them screwing up.
(I've sent Annette a longish email about this already...)

Drakon was referring to the Fedral GFSZ, not a local ordinance. So, what was the point of your post?
 

LaBomba

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
118
Location
Tosa
Drakon was referring to the Fedral GFSZ, not a local ordinance. So, what was the point of your post?

I agree with your conclusion, though the tone strikes me as perhaps just a wee bit ornery for a response to an innocent error.

Unless, of course, you're the poor Annette who's being badgered with wrongish longish emails accusing DOJ of incompetence.
 

Drakon

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
47
Location
Madison
GFSZA Prohibits Discharging Firearm in Self-Defense; Few exceptions

Although the GFSZA allows a citizen to discharge a firearm on private property, it prohibits discharge on public property in the Gun Free Zones by anyone except on-duty law enforcement and school security. A carry permit never exempts an individual from the GFSZA discharge restrictions, even in the State that physically issued it.

I stole this from wikipedia here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990


I believe that is what the WI DOJ is making clear. So it isn't a typo or a mistake. The DOJ is simply stating that it is a Felony regardless of whether firing your weapon is justified or not. So carry your weapon in a school zone but don't ever fire it because if you do you quite possibly could go to jail.
 
M

McX

Guest
I stole this from wikipedia here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990


I believe that is what the WI DOJ is making clear. So it isn't a typo or a mistake. The DOJ is simply stating that it is a Felony regardless of whether firing your weapon is justified or not. So carry your weapon in a school zone but don't ever fire it because if you do you quite possibly could go to jail.

this is alarming. it wont be long before the criminals discover and exploit this loophole! We fear violating the law, they dont!

* added on edit; i do wonder what part of the DOJ site will address where and how to file complaints regarding Police that use excessive force against a permit holder.
 
Last edited:

Uziel Gal

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
93
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
NO, that is not what is says. It can be 'with in reach' if it is not hidden or concealed.



Some think I am crazy, but a Serpa holster is getting mounted on my dash board by 11/1/11 and until I get my CWL.

You are correct, I was paraphrasing, and even though I support your position I'm sure I would not want to be the defendant in the case that tests out the theory that a handgun on the dash is in the open.
 
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