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Thread: Did I break the law??

  1. #1
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    Did I break the law??

    I have been carrying in grocery stores, both open and concealed, for years, but saw something the other day that made me think this may be illegal. I was in the local Food Lion, that I frequent weekly, and saw something new that I have never seen there before. They had an employee giving free samples of wine. He had a bottle on ice and was offering shoppers samples that he would pour into small cups. My first thought was that they are not licensed to serve alcohol on premises, so I did a little checking. According to the NC ABC web site(http://www.ncabc.com/search/business.aspx?bid=85737), that Food Lion location IS licensed for "Wine Tasting." I checked some other grocery stores in Greenville, and found that 6 out of 7 Food Lions have this permit, all 3 Harris Teeter's and Lowe's Food have this permit along with Malt Beverage Tasting permits. The Piggly Wiggly does not have any on-premises permits.

    So, are we breaking the law by carrying in grocery stores that have "tasting" permits? I am not a laywer, but I can read and when I read this section of the statute, it seems to apply these grocery stores:

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    What do you think??

  2. #2
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tak2w View Post
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    What do you think??
    Howdy Amigo!
    Do they regularly sell wine in their stores? Do they regularly have alcohol being consumed in their stores?
    Do they charge a fee for a "wine tasting" or do they merely give it away as is customary with a "wine tasting"?

    Reading the law as you quoted above, the little word AND is more than a mere conjunctive. It says both elements must be present for the misdemeanor to exist. The alcohol must be both sold AND consumed. If the wine tasting was free, the fact that consumers might partake is irrelevant if they did not purchase the product. If the store sells alcoholic beverages but does not have consumption on premesis (apart from free wine tasting) that would not likely apply either.

    The law in question would seem to indicate that you shouldn't visit a bar or tavern while carrying. It would appear also to rule out restaurants where spirits are sold and consumed, such as Applebees or other places of that ilk.

    It seems extremely unlikely that the law would apply to a supermarket, hardware store, or any other location where sample products might be consumed but not sold, or sold but not consumed on premesis.

    Then again, I ain't an attorney so you might check with one. But I do have the ability to read, and the law appears to be quite clear in the wording as applies to your question.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  3. #3
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    Thumbs up

    I agree with M-Taliesin. My reading of the text would indicate that the alcoholic beverages in question must be both sold, and then consumed, on the premises.

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    +1

  5. #5
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    tak2w:

    The Provisions of North Carolina General Statute G.S. 14-269.3 State:

    It shall be Unlawful for any Person to Carry any Gun, Rifle, or Pistol into any..., Establishment in which Alcoholic Beverages are Sold and Consumed.

    If The Alcoholic Beverages in Question are NOT both Sold AND Consumed, then, there is NO Violation of This North Carolina General Statute.

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 08-01-2011 at 11:32 AM.

  6. #6
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    I wouldn't sweat this
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

  7. #7
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    wine tasting

    I tend to agree with what the others have said with one caveat. Be aware that there is zero tolerance for alcohol in the bloodstream if you partake of samples while carrying concealed. I realize that samples are just samples, but....just saying.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    tak2w:

    The Provisions of North Carolina General Statute G.S. 14-269.3 State:

    It shall be Unlawful for any Person to Carry any Gun, Rifle, or Pistol into any..., Establishment in which Alcoholic Beverages are Sold and Consumed.

    If The Alcoholic Beverages in Question are NOT both Sold AND Consumed, then, there is NO Violation of This North Carolina General Statute.

    aadvark
    Like most legislation: Written by fools.

    NC law is so full of traps that it is almost impossible for a person to CC without getting into trouble.

    For instance, traveling and checking into or out of a hotel.

    Most hotels and larger motels have a bar. Sometimes the bar is remote from the lobby but many times the bar and dining layout is similar to the O'Henry in Greensboro or the Embassy Suites.

    In both cases, the bar and dining area is directly off the lobby and within a few feet of the desk and front entrance.

    So technically you can't even enter the building without being in an establishment that sells and consumes.

    We should insist on this legislature, now that we have one that is sane, simplifying the law.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old curmudgeon View Post
    Like most legislation: Written by fools.

    NC law is so full of traps that it is almost impossible for a person to CC without getting into trouble.

    For instance, traveling and checking into or out of a hotel.

    Most hotels and larger motels have a bar. Sometimes the bar is remote from the lobby but many times the bar and dining layout is similar to the O'Henry in Greensboro or the Embassy Suites.

    In both cases, the bar and dining area is directly off the lobby and within a few feet of the desk and front entrance.

    So technically you can't even enter the building without being in an establishment that sells and consumes.

    We should insist on this legislature, now that we have one that is sane, simplifying the law.

    I dont think lawmakers are trying to trap anyone. Its nay impossible to create a gun law written so well that it can account for every situtation (this one law on alcohol and guns could be 100's of pages by its self it it had to address every possibile situtation that could appear) The question you have to ask your self is would 12 of your peers think that your in violation of the law as it is written now? Its really all up to the DA's interpitation of the law.
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    I dont think lawmakers are trying to trap anyone. Its nay impossible to create a gun law written so well that it can account for every situtation (this one law on alcohol and guns could be 100's of pages by its self it it had to address every possibile situtation that could appear) The question you have to ask your self is would 12 of your peers think that your in violation of the law as it is written now? Its really all up to the DA's interpitation of the law.
    I think I disagree with your conclusion. While I have no wish to hijack the thread in an unintended direction, the bar has already been set so high with regard to law that the "beavis and butt head" legislators in the current crop are just not up to the task. What part of "shall not be infringed" did you disagree with?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith45acp View Post
    I wouldn't sweat this
    +1 to that. I have actually been offered a sample while open carrying in the Harris Teeter.

    I could see how if the right cop saw you OC, they could try something. But this is a 1 in a million chance, and that wouldn't hold up.....

    My $0.02

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith45acp View Post
    I wouldn't sweat this
    (Not contradicting; just using the quote as a springboard.)

    I wouldn't sweat this. I also would not post here the circumstances of an event if I wasn't sure of the legality. What if the thing you are uncertain about turned out to be illegal? Now you have a permanent confession cached on the internet.

    "Yesterday I __________. Was it illegal for me to do that?"

    Much wiser to just ask, "What is the law on __________?"

    No slimely lawyer can later say, "See! See what he did! And, he only looks for the legality after he does the deed." Whether its a divorce, child custody, or self-defense prosecution, the ammunition against you just isn't there.

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