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Thread: Sample letter to legislature to ammend preemption

  1. #1
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Sample letter to legislature to ammend preemption

    SAMPLE LETTER TO LEGISLATURE TO AMMEND PREEMPTION

    I am writing to inform you about recent events threatening firearms rights in Michigan. As you may know, Michigan law (MCL 123.1102) preempts firearms regulations by local governments. The Capitol Area District Library (CADL) was awarded a permanent injunction that bans firearms possession in its facilities claiming the Library can do so because it is an “authority” and not a local government.

    Judge Aquilina in the 30th Circuit Court for Ingham County, Michigan has ruled that “Authorities” are not preempted by state law and can ban firearms. Her decision in essence has stated that all a local unit of government has to do to by-pass state preemption is form an authority.

    This Court decision has chilling implications for the Right to Keep and Bear arms in Michigan. Preemption could collapse as cities around the State create authorities that can ban firearms (Sidewalk Authorities, Park Authorities, City Building Authorities, Downtown Development Authorities, etc.). All public libraries in Michigan could become weapon-free school zones if the Court of Appeals upholds the circuit courts ruling.

    This ruling flies in the face of the legislature’s intent to prevent local units of government from creating firearm laws more restrictive than the state and create a patchwork of contradictory laws. This ruling will make it impossible for a law-abiding citizen to learn every firearm law in every jurisdiction they may travel through within the state.

    The case is being appealed by Michigan Open Carry, Inc. The CADL has also appealed the judge’s decision that the open carry of a handgun is not brandishing. Why a library is trying to pursue the brandishing issue I can only speculate. Keep in mind CADL is spending thousands of dollars in public money as they are almost 100% funded (About $12,000,000 a year) by taxes and traffic fines.

    You need to amend MCL 123.1102 to include authorities and to amend the brandishing statute to exempt the lawful open carry of a firearm. If open carry is ruled to be brandishing it would affect the entire 2nd amendment community as well as reserve officers and armed security guards.

    Please sponsor and/or support these amendments.

    If you want future information please contact me. Our organization has access to a draft revised preemption law.

    Sincerely,
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    A couple suggestions if I may.

    Dont tell them that "You need to ammend", they wont like being told what to do.

    Adding definitions to preemption is NOT the right way to go about this. It just opens the door for someone else to subvert the law like CADL, and the Waterford Schools/Police have.

    What we need to ask the legislature to do, is to remove the definitions to preemption instead, wording it in such a way as to include everybody paid by the taxdollar.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    You need to amend MCL 123.1102 to include authorities and to amend the brandishing statute to exempt the lawful open carry of a firearm. If open carry is ruled to be brandishing it would affect the entire 2nd amendment community as well as reserve officers and armed security guards.
    Why not have it say any person lawfully carrying a firearm? And/or have them put in a definition of brandishing into the law.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    It'd be a nice bonus if we had a bill number (we don't). That's how they think: Bill No./Support or defeat
    Last edited by TheQ; 08-01-2011 at 12:48 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Greyh Seer's Avatar
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    I sent a slightly modified version of this to my State Rep today. Thanks for posting!

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    If definitions are listed, then someone will someday find a way around it like they did with authorities. 100 years ago, the word authorities probably wasnt used to describe a .gov. 100 years from now, someone will come up with some new fenangled word to get around those rights again.

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    It's what I sent to mine. You gentle persons are free to modify, adopt or disregard as you feel fit.

    I guess the idea was to make all the reps aware of what's going on. And then help them modify the statutes in a positive way.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  8. #8
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    If definitions are listed, then someone will someday find a way around it like they did with authorities. 100 years ago, the word authorities probably wasnt used to describe a .gov. 100 years from now, someone will come up with some new fenangled word to get around those rights again.
    In regards to preemption, the drafts written have more changes then just adding authorities. I believe a % of tax dollars is included regardless of what the entity is called. So if they receive a determined amount of public funds, they can't enact firearm laws, even if they are called a "Bazinga".
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Thats what Im concerned with here. If we got them to add "authorities" to the list, and didnt change a singe other word, then a school could say, "We are not on the list", or someone someday could create a "Bazinga" and get around it again.

    Cool word BTW.

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    Local unit of Government, Is defined in the state Constitution, and Authorities are included.

    Looks like authorities fall under state preemption ?

    STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)
    CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963

    § 33 Definitions applicable to sections 25 to 32.
    Sec. 33.
    Definitions. The definitions of this section shall apply to Section 25 through 32 of Article IX, inclusive.
    “Total State Revenues” includes all general and special revenues, excluding federal aid, as defined in the budget message of the governor for fiscal year 1978-1979. Total State Revenues shall exclude the amount of any credits based on actual tax liabilities or the imputed tax components of rental payments, but shall include the amount of any credits not related to actual tax liabilities. “Personal Income of Michigan” is the total income received by persons in Michigan from all sources, as defined and officially reported by the United States Department of Commerce or its successor agency.
    “Local Government” means any political subdivision of the state, including, but not restricted to, school districts, cities, villages, townships, charter townships, counties, charter counties, authorities created by the state, and authorities created by other units of local government. “General Price Level” means the Consumer Price Index for the United States as defined and officially reported by the United States Department of Labor or its successor agency.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...ht=authorities

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gort View Post
    Local unit of Government, Is defined in the state Constitution, and Authorities are included.

    Looks like authorities fall under state preemption ?

    STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)
    CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963

    § 33 Definitions applicable to sections 25 to 32.
    Sec. 33.
    Definitions. The definitions of this section shall apply to Section 25 through 32 of Article IX, inclusive.
    “Total State Revenues” includes all general and special revenues, excluding federal aid, as defined in the budget message of the governor for fiscal year 1978-1979. Total State Revenues shall exclude the amount of any credits based on actual tax liabilities or the imputed tax components of rental payments, but shall include the amount of any credits not related to actual tax liabilities. “Personal Income of Michigan” is the total income received by persons in Michigan from all sources, as defined and officially reported by the United States Department of Commerce or its successor agency.
    “Local Government” means any political subdivision of the state, including, but not restricted to, school districts, cities, villages, townships, charter townships, counties, charter counties, authorities created by the state, and authorities created by other units of local government. “General Price Level” means the Consumer Price Index for the United States as defined and officially reported by the United States Department of Labor or its successor agency.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...ht=authorities
    MCL 123.1101 defines Local Unit of Government for purposes of MCL 123.1102.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    MCL 123.1101 defines Local Unit of Government for purposes of MCL 123.1102.
    I not a Lawyer, but the Michigan Constitution defines what is a Unit of government and Local unit of government in this section.
    I don't know if the Michigan Constitution says this only applies to this section of government and not others.
    But, I do think this would apply to all laws, in reference to Local Units Of Government. ?
    Last edited by Gort; 08-01-2011 at 02:49 PM.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Question

    Amend the definition of local gov to include "any public entity created by local governments and recieving tax funds". Simple enough to cover it?
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Simplify the definitions by no longer naming specifics, but to cover all, like Venator was talking about.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Simplify the definitions by no longer naming specifics, but to cover all, like Venator was talking about.
    The K.I.S.S method,absolutely!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    In regards to preemption, the drafts written have more changes then just adding authorities. I believe a % of tax dollars is included regardless of what the entity is called. So if they receive a determined amount of public funds, they can't enact firearm laws, even if they are called a "Bazinga".
    Would Walmart be considered a local unit of government? They get tax breaks, loans, not to mention the govt supported highways which is the main reason they can even be in business to the degree they are. How about my neighbor on social security... or people on unemployment?
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    More places that must honor your rights, imagine that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gort View Post
    I not a Lawyer, but the Michigan Constitution defines what is a Unit of government and Local unit of government in this section.
    I don't know if the Michigan Constitution says this only applies to this section of government and not others.
    But, I do think this would apply to all laws, in reference to Local Units Of Government. ?
    As I understand it, when a law goes as far as to define something, it's definition can only be used in the scope of that law. The CADL matter will not be resolved until MCL 123.1101 is replaced with something that defines all tax payer funded / public property.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    More places that must honor your rights, imagine that.
    But at what cost... ala Pandora's Box?
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    no, I think you should be able to carry anything, anywhere, at any time. No guesswork or research, no doubt, just "shall not be infringed".

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    no, I think you should be able to carry anything, anywhere, at any time. No guesswork or research, no doubt, just "shall not be infringed".
    My first reaction is that I agree... but the private property issue is a problem... but I guess in my sarcastic post above, most property would be "public".
    Last edited by DrTodd; 08-02-2011 at 07:58 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  22. #22
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Would Walmart be considered a local unit of government? They get tax breaks, loans, not to mention the govt supported highways which is the main reason they can even be in business to the degree they are. How about my neighbor on social security... or people on unemployment?
    Set a percentage of income? Good questions, keep thinking of all the loophole.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (EXCERPT)
    Act 319 of 1990


    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.

    Sec. 2.

    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    I still say (my opinion) the "or regulate in any other manner" portion is a catch all intended to apply to every possible attempt for a municipality to bypass the preemption law. Including forming entities that have different names than the ones specified in the law itself.

    What is necessary is to have a judge realize that the law means what it says... not says what the judge means it to say.

    Now... a question... and I hope I understand the Royal Oak/Arts Beats and Eats issue correctly....... If I have it wrong please tell me!

    Since the Royal Oak fiasco with the city entering into a contract with a promoter.. a contract that had gun control rules more strict than State law and that contract fell under the preemption law because the city could not "or regulate in any other manner" ..... would a municipality forming an "authority" be a contract of sorts between the municipality and the new "authority"?

    Perhaps the way to address this whole issue is through contract law?
    Last edited by Bikenut; 08-02-2011 at 09:52 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    My first reaction is that I agree... but the private property issue is a problem... but I guess in my sarcastic post above, mist property would be "public".
    Think "Public Accommodation" of Private Property. Please see the following video starting at about 0:58...


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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Pick One!


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