Equipped 2 Conceal Firearms Group Advertising Classes In Wausau

equip 2 conceal , i think what many of the board members here are very Leary about , is spending their hard earned cash to get training that the DOJ will not accept later.

what should be accepted may not be our politicians have a special way of not saying what they mean or meaning what they say or going back on things they have said written or not. Many here on the board rarely take anything serious until we have a AG's statement on it , or a proven case log, or valid legal council.

more than one member of this board has been detained, cited or falsely arrested for breaking no laws , some even had lengthy court trails before winning their cases because they went fully armed whit the absolute letter of the law.

ultimately, If the training you provide isn't 100% accurate even if it seemed like a valid interpretation of a not yet clarified law that fits with the way it is in many other states , it is not you sitting in jail or on trial.

also , you identify yourself as from Florida , and that comes off just a bit carpet bagger , to many they are angry enough about jobs lost to out of state , over seas and such , someone coming in whether you are 100% correct in you interpretation or not from another state just won't sit well with many.

good luck in you endeavors , please be careful with our citizens.

Guys, it's the free market. WI (and Iowa last year)could have pulled a Minnesota and created an instructor cartel, but instead we opted for as little bureaucracy as we could get past the legislature. If someone teaches incorrect things, either talk to them about it or publicize it. If someone teaches a good class, publicize it also. That's the way business is supposed to run in the USA. Be proud of it instead of complaining. The exact same whining was heard in Iowa this past year, before people realized that freedom is actually a good thing.

*I am in no way affiliated with any training group, just familiar with reality*

amaixner said:

<snip>...If someone teaches incorrect things, either talk to them about it or publicize it. If someone teaches a good class, publicize it also. That's the way business is supposed to run in the USA. Be proud of it instead of complaining. The exact same whining was heard in Iowa this past year, before people realized that freedom is actually a good thing.

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So what are you saying? The DOJ for the State of Wisconsin has stated publicly they have not finished their rulings on for exactly which individuals will or won't qualify as instructors. They have warned the public of this fact so they do not sign up for classes. Along comes Equipped 2 Conceal stating to the citizens of Wisconsin their instructors meet the State of Wisconsin requirements that haven't even been finalized. It is "incorrect" for the company to make the claims they are making and you state in your post if something is "incorrect" one option is to "publicize it." I posted here to publicize their false claims and then you come in here and later in your post label it as whining.

Pick a side or get out of the fight.

scm54449 said:

So what are you saying? The DOJ for the State of Wisconsin has stated publicly they have not finished their rulings on for exactly which individuals will or won't qualify as instructors. They have warned the public of this fact so they do not sign up for classes. Along comes Equipped 2 Conceal stating to the citizens of Wisconsin their instructors meet the State of Wisconsin requirements that haven't even been finalized. It is "incorrect" for the company to make the claims they are making and you state in your post if something is "incorrect" one option is to "publicize it." I posted here to publicize their false claims and then you come in here and later in your post label it as whining.

Pick a side or get out of the fight.

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I agree with you that if the law isn't clear on what training is accepted, a trainer should not claim to be accepted until such has been clarified.

You have a good point here about the accepted training, but the vast majority of this thread has been complaining about other things that are unrelated to this point, such as people daring to profit off of their business, or traveling around to train somewhere that they don't live. In fact, the first post doesn't even mention it. My post is in response to the entirety of the thread, and I'm not going to debate it.

Why Pay Exorbitant Fees For "Training" When DNR Hunter's Safety Suffices?

If anyone doesn't have the "required" training to get the concealed carry license why not sign up for a DNR Hunter Safety Course for $10? Classes only cost $10 and are starting this month in Racine county and the beginning of September in Kenosha county. There are locations listed for every county in Wisconsin for the classes with contact information provided on the DNR website.

As many have noted in this thread and others MANY of us have been involved in this movement since the beginning and know the rules/laws/court cases extremely well and I am sure more than someone from outside the state of Wisconsin.

So instead of plunking down hard earned money for "information" that we surely already know (and possibly much better than the person providing the "training") why not take the Hunter Safety Education course and be done with it??

From the FAQ's and from SB93/ACT 35: Snip "A copy of a document, or an affidavit from an instructor or organization that conducted the course or program, that indicates that the individual completed any of the following (but see note below):

The hunter education program established by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) or a substantially similar program that is established by another state, country, or province and that is recognized by DNR.

DNR Link: http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/safety/hunted.htm

scm54449 said:

So what are you saying? The DOJ for the State of Wisconsin has stated publicly they have not finished their rulings on for exactly which individuals will or won't qualify as instructors. They have warned the public of this fact so they do not sign up for classes. Along comes Equipped 2 Conceal stating to the citizens of Wisconsin their instructors meet the State of Wisconsin requirements that haven't even been finalized. It is "incorrect" for the company to make the claims they are making and you state in your post if something is "incorrect" one option is to "publicize it." I posted here to publicize their false claims and then you come in here and later in your post label it as whining.

Pick a side or get out of the fight.

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The thing is that the DOJ CANNOT over rule the law. While they have power to certify instructors, the law also states lots of other training that MUST be accepted.

Hunters safety, a training class offered by a national organization (so.... ANY NRA training would have to be accepted) among others. So.... if you want to GUARANTEE that the training will be accepted, sign up and take an NRA or hunters safety course.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

The thing is that the DOJ CANNOT over rule the law. While they have power to certify instructors, the law also states lots of other training that MUST be accepted.

Hunters safety, a training class offered by a national organization (so.... ANY NRA training would have to be accepted) among others. So.... if you want to GUARANTEE that the training will be accepted, sign up and take an NRA or hunters safety course.

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I agree Paul. The training requirements are "Black Letter Law" and the black letters on a white page confirm that ANY NRA training course that results in the issuance of an Official NRA Certificate and signed by a current and qualified NRA instructor will meet the WI requirements. What is less clear is if a "custom course", even if taught by an NRA Certified Instructor will meet the requirement. A Utah CFP Course that results in a UT Permit will meet the law, but it is less clear that the course alone will; even though it is taught by an instructor who is most likely NRA Certified (or POST Certified) and the instructor is permitted by a Law Enforcement Agency (Utah BCI).

The yellow cat will be back in WI to teach NRA Basic Pistol and UT CFP. I wil know more about the timing early next week and will try to give at least 10 days notice on this forum.

For those who only support local instructors, I ask for an exemption based on the following:

1) Over 40 years as a WI Resident - moved to UT just over 2 years ago.
2) I still own a house in the Lauderdale Lakes area and pay taxes in WI (Oh - do I pay taxes in WI.)
3) I offer really great discounts for my courses to Vets and WI Carry members and to date have trained over 35 members of WI Carry.
4) MKEGAL has indicated that she would once again like to be my assistant instructor and work directly with any female students.
5) McX and Outdoorsman have told me that they think I am a good firearms instructor (although I will probably have to bribe McX with a cheeseburger to get him to repeat it).

Carry On

Ethical businessmen?

At least they gave you some information. My question to them was if I could take the Wisconsin class being a Minnesota resident. Their intern told me I needed a diferent class and promptly tapped my bank account for another class without refunding the first fee. Three days later I get a return call saying that they will return the $125.00 fee but that they would not refund the intial $99.00 fee because if I took the Wisconsin class I could get an Arizona non-resident permit and would be able get a wisconsin permit. Talk about an orginization that wants nothing more than your money. I am sure that they give good information at their classes. The instructor that I talked to really seemed that he wanted to share his passion for firearms. Their admin help and project director however, wanted nothing more than my money and provided no service at all. It is a shame that these people are allowed to ruin the integrity of those who are HONESTLY trying to help and educate with-in the confines of the law.

scm54449 said:

Gee, a group based in Florida that will only charge me $99.00 for a three hour class so theyy can tell me about the things I first learned as a Junior NRA competitor almost 50 years ago, most of which was covered by Hunter Safety as well. I would pay $99.00 to a FIB Governor to teach me about political ethics & integrity before I would patronize CC trainers from Florida!! :cuss::banghead:

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Sorry to hear about your poor experience with Equipped To Conceal. I know they continue to advertise courses for $99.00 in the Marshfield, WI and Wausau, WI areas. Interestingly, Wisconsin Carry Inc. offers FREE, four-hour classes in this same area that meet all State of Wisconsin requirements. No organization is viewed as perfect by all, but Wisconsin Carry Inc. is an organization that educates individuals on 2A rights and promotes the exercise of those rights by an ever-increasing percentage of the population. They offer free courses to support that mission. Equipped To Conceal is here because there is a market for training. Their mission is to tap in to that market and offer information in return for money.

The Equipped To Conceal instructor who posted previously clearly felt he "knew it all" regarding what the law required even though it was common knowledge that the AG's office was going to take some as yet unknown position on the law. I strongly disagree with the action taken by the AG's office to set a four-hour minimum for training but I continue to be amused remembering the extremely confident Equipped To Conceal instructor who "already knew" the training requirements that would be required for a CCL...:lol:

Miggs? Your opinion on this?:lol:

Equip2ConcealInst. said:

We do offer the basic level 1 firearms course...
We meet the requirements according to SB 93 act 35 to teach these firearms classes within the state of Wisconsin.

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I, too, was amused at their precognition gone wrong, claiming (against the DOJ) that their class met the as-yet-unestablished DOJ requirements.
A 3-hour course, very well publicized as such, & what were their dozens of ex-students supposed to do while DOJ required 4 hours?
Wonder how many apps got returned in those first few weeks, then had to mail it back again?
Or did the spammers email false certificates to everyone, saying that their advertised 3h course was really 4h?

Whenever one of those spammers shows up in the comments on a firearms-related news article, I report them as spam. Their ads aren't related to the article. Hopefully they're eventually banned.

rcawdor57 said:

If anyone doesn't have the "required" training to get the concealed carry license why not sign up for a DNR Hunter Safety Course for $10? Classes only cost $10 and are starting this month in Racine county and the beginning of September in Kenosha county. There are locations listed for every county in Wisconsin for the classes with contact information provided on the DNR website.

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One thing about the Hunter's Safety Course is, (except the half-online version), multiple days and a minimum of, what, 16 hours? I looked at the study test for it some months back, and half the questions were about how high your tree stand should be off the ground and things.

A co-worker took the Equipped to Carry class in Eau Claire. His class was an hour and a half (1 1/2)!!! He stated that 95% of the info was stuff he already knew or could read in any gun magazine or web site. He felt that they only cared about getting people thru the class to get paid!

He DOES NOT recommend them to teach anything!

DangerClose said:

One thing about the Hunter's Safety Course is, (except the half-online version), multiple days and a minimum of, what, 16 hours? I looked at the study test for it some months back, and half the questions were about how high your tree stand should be off the ground and things.

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I agree. Your quote on my post (done on 8/11/2011) was before we had WCI providing free training. So....if people want to get their license and not pay high prices then please....sign up for the FREE WISCONSIN CARRY CLASSES! They are all over the state and occurring all the time.

LINK: http://www.dwave.net/~phred/Records.html


P.S. How HIGH is my tree stand supposed to be?

jpm84092 said:

I agree Paul. The training requirements are "Black Letter Law" and the black letters on a white page confirm that ANY NRA training course that results in the issuance of an Official NRA Certificate and signed by a current and qualified NRA instructor will meet the WI requirements. What is less clear is if a "custom course", even if taught by an NRA Certified Instructor will meet the requirement. A Utah CFP Course that results in a UT Permit will meet the law, but it is less clear that the course alone will; even though it is taught by an instructor who is most likely NRA Certified (or POST Certified) and the instructor is permitted by a Law Enforcement Agency (Utah BCI).The yellow cat will be back in WI to teach NRA Basic Pistol and UT CFP. I wil know more about the timing early next week and will try to give at least 10 days notice on this forum.For those who only support local instructors, I ask for an exemption based on the following:1) Over 40 years as a WI Resident - moved to UT just over 2 years ago.2) I still own a house in the Lauderdale Lakes area and pay taxes in WI (Oh - do I pay taxes in WI.)3) I offer really great discounts for my courses to Vets and WI Carry members and to date have trained over 35 members of WI Carry.4) MKEGAL has indicated that she would once again like to be my assistant instructor and work directly with any female students.5) McX and Outdoorsman have told me that they think I am a good firearms instructor (although I will probably have to bribe McX with a cheeseburger to get him to repeat it). Carry On

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I thought your class was very good. If you ever come up with a class for the less mobile and firearm defense I would like to take it.

goforlow said:

A co-worker took the Equipped to Carry class in Eau Claire. His class was an hour and a half (1 1/2)!!! He stated that 95% of the info was stuff he already knew or could read in any gun magazine or web site. He felt that they only cared about getting people thru the class to get paid!

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First, let me state that as a supporter of Constitutional Carry I do not support the AG's office imposing a 4-hour minimum on training for the CCL. That said, under the current rules, 4 hours is the minimum and if Equipped To Conceal is teaching for only 90 minutes and issuing certificates stating the training provided meets the AG's 4-hour minimum, then your co-worker needs to report Equipped To Conceal to local law enforcement and to the AG's office. It is a pretty safe bet that Wisconsin Carry Inc. offers honest-to-goodness four hour courses in your area for FREE!

Charging more than $1.00 a minute to provide only the most basic information on firearm nomenclature and the use of deadly force should be a crime on its own. More carpet-bagger, money-grubbing BS from a group that is based outside of Wisconsin and whose primary interest is to make a profit...:cuss::banghead:

scm54449 said:

First, let me state that as a supporter of Constitutional Carry I do not support the AG's office imposing a 4-hour minimum on training for the CCL. That said, under the current rules, 4 hours is the minimum and if Equipped To Conceal is teaching for only 90 minutes and issuing certificates stating the training provided meets the AG's 4-hour minimum, then your co-worker needs to report Equipped To Conceal to local law enforcement and to the AG's office. It is a pretty safe bet that Wisconsin Carry Inc. offers honest-to-goodness four hour courses in your area for FREE!

Charging more than $1.00 a minute to provide only the most basic information on firearm nomenclature and the use of deadly force should be a crime on its own. More carpet-bagger, money-grubbing BS from a group that is based outside of Wisconsin and whose primary interest is to make a profit...:cuss::banghead:

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Nope, no minimum. There was only a 4 hour minimum for 1 week.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Nope, no minimum. There was only a 4 hour minimum for 1 week.

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If I misspoke regarding the 4 hour minimum I apologize to everyone. Regarding Equipped To Conceal charging over $1.00 a minute for basic information, I stand by my previous statements.

scm54449 said:

If I misspoke regarding the 4 hour minimum I apologize to everyone. Regarding Equipped To Conceal charging over $1.00 a minute for basic information, I stand by my previous statements.

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No need to apologize, I agree.