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Thread: Toledo police spokesperson: Defending self during armed robbery "just not worth it"

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    Toledo police spokesperson: Defending self during armed robbery "just not worth it"

    After four jewelry store holdups in the past month, a Toledo police department spokesperson is reminding citizens that while they have a right to defend themselves, they really shouldn't bother.

    "You may just end up in a big gun battle and the store owner may get the suspect they may get the store owner and no telling what bystanders might be involved so its just really not worth it." (emphasis added)
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7915

    http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/video?id=8277042
    Last edited by zack991; 08-01-2011 at 08:59 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
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    I suppose you do have to take the circumstances, weigh the choices based on them.

    If the bad guys have the drop on you, and simply want the money/goods/whatever, there is no obvious threat of bodily harm, then trying to turn the tables may only get you killed.

    OTOH, if there is an obvious threat of bodily harm, then you really have nothing to lose by TRYING to get the upper hand.

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    Simply my life is not a casino, I am not willing to leave up to chance or the mercy of my enemy.
    Last edited by zack991; 08-01-2011 at 10:46 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    After four jewelry store holdups in the past month, a Toledo police department spokesperson is reminding citizens that while they have a right to defend themselves, they really shouldn't bother.

    "You may just end up in a big gun battle and the store owner may get the suspect they may get the store owner and no telling what bystanders might be involved so its just really not worth it." (emphasis added)
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7915

    http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/video?id=8277042
    Her statement is totally subjective. It can easily be written the other way and make much more sense. For example: You may just end up in a big gun battle and the suspect may get you and you may get the suspect saving the life of the store owner and no telling how many bystanders might be saved by your actions so it may be worth it. (yes, I know that's a massive run-on sentence, so was the one in the quote so I wrote it the same.) I guess what I'm saying is just the opposite of what she is saying. It all depends on the circumstances and how sure you are of your actions. No one can make a blanket statement about whether or not it is "worth" it.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    I value my life a lot more than that spokesperson obviously values theirs.
    If I feel threatened I will react.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper1 View Post
    I value my life a lot more than that spokesperson obviously values theirs.
    If I feel threatened I will react.
    Slight point of clarification... you (and we) value our lives more than the spokesperson values our lives. Bet your bottom dollar, if he were the one in a hold-up, he'd take the first opportunity to take the guy out.

    TFred

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Is she a spokesperson for the criminals???? I feel the criminals are going yes do what she said and don't resist it will make our job of raping, robbing, and murdering easier.... How stupid can she be.

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    message for the robbers

    Robbing a store just isn't worth it. You could wind up in a gun battle. The store owner might get you, any number of bystanders might be legally armed citizens who might get you, and even if you get out of the store alive, the cops might get you. I mean, you can do what you want, but it's probably just better to avoid confrontation. Let them keep what they worked for. Go get a job flipping burgers and save your money and buy things like a regular person...
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frommycolddeadhands View Post
    Robbing a store just isn't worth it. You could wind up in a gun battle. The store owner might get you, any number of bystanders might be legally armed citizens who might get you, and even if you get out of the store alive, the cops might get you. I mean, you can do what you want, but it's probably just better to avoid confrontation. Let them keep what they worked for. Go get a job flipping burgers and save your money and buy things like a regular person...
    My thoughts exactly. Not everyone has to resist. But, if enough do, some robbers will have second thoughts. Crime will be lessened.

    So I don't care if the spokesman thinks that if he is robbed, it would not be worth defending himself. I don't care if he has that personal opinion about how others should act. It is just not his place to give such advice in his role as an employee of the city.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    If the bad guys have the drop on you, and simply want the money/goods/whatever, there is no obvious threat of bodily harm, then trying to turn the tables may only get you killed.
    How exactly do you know WHAT they want? THEY may not know what they want from one moment to the next.

    NO plan I have will EVER be premised on the intelligence, common sense and basic human decency of an armed robber. If he was smart, had common sense and basic human decency, he wouldn't BE an armed robber.

    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    OTOH, if there is an obvious threat of bodily harm, then you really have nothing to lose by TRYING to get the upper hand.
    If there's not an "obvious threat of bodily harm", it wouldn't BE an ARMED ROBBERY. If the "threat" isn't credible, it isn't a robbery.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper1 View Post
    I value my life a lot more than that spokesperson obviously values theirs.
    If I feel threatened I will react.
    Howdy Amigo!
    You can just about put money on the guess that spokesperson is armed. Why do they feel they are right to do so, and the business owner not?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    If the bad guys have the drop on you, and simply want the money/goods/whatever, there is no obvious threat of bodily harm, then trying to turn the tables may only get you killed.
    If the BG's have the drop on you, there already exists an imminent threat of serious bodily harm and you are well within your rights to open fire against your assailant should the opportunity avail itself. It matters not what they want.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    This spokesperson has no right to give that _opinion_ on how people should and can defend themselves, but more importantly, because she's inexperienced and or just stupid, she forgets an important element that makes her dead wrong.

    It's not about carrying so you can engage in a gun battle. It's not even about pulling your HG at any particular time. It's about have the choice and the ability to defend yourself, instead of dying cowering in a corner.

    If you carry at least you have a CHOICE. I'm sure the nice spokesperson, not having a stake in this fight, just blithered off the top of her head as spokespersons are known to do.

    $.02
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Is she a spokesperson for the criminals???? I feel the criminals are going yes do what she said and don't resist it will make our job of raping, robbing, and murdering easier.... How stupid can she be.
    Don't let the cat out of the bag.

    The Toledo mayor, is a member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, too.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-02-2011 at 01:49 PM.

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    anyone have an email for the officer that made this statement?? This is ridiculous, it sounds to me like they are on the criminals side, as long as they keep robbing, raping, and murdering, they keep a job. I would like to ask them myself if thats the case.

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    correct

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Typical anti-2A BS....
    agreed 100 %.
    JP

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Is she a spokesperson for the criminals???? I feel the criminals are going yes do what she said and don't resist it will make our job of raping, robbing, and murdering easier.... How stupid can she be.
    Very stupid.

    Her statement might hold true for the average citizen. However, the average citizen does not routinely keep and bear arms. The average citizen does not hit the firing range three times a year to maintain proficiency. The average citizen does not sleep with thirty-three rounds and a 9mm under their pillow in case a criminal decides to attempt burglary or worse.

    I am not an average citizen.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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