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Thread: I'm writng a story on concealed carry

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    I'm writng a story on concealed carry

    Hi All!

    I'm writing a story for the Door County Advocate on concealed carry and I was hoping that those of you in Door County would be willing to talk with me or point me toward some Door County sources that I could include in my story. Feel free to email me at svhernande@doorcountyadvocate.com or call me at (920) 743-3321 ext. 112 for more information. My deadline is the Aug. 10. Thanks ahead of time.

    Samantha

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Welcome back Samantha! Long time no post!

    I'm not from door county but just figured I'd get in a greeting.

    So, are you going to concealed carry?
    R[ƎVO˩]UTION

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    It would be worth while to mention in your story the communities which still have laws on their books which are void because of the State preemption such as Washington Island and its prohibition of firearms in public...

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    Congrats on your recent awards, Samantha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Welcome back Samantha! Long time no post!

    I'm not from door county but just figured I'd get in a greeting.

    So, are you going to concealed carry?
    I've been busy, but I check in from time to time. Thanks for the warm welcome back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    Congrats on your recent awards, Samantha.
    Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    It would be worth while to mention in your story the communities which still have laws on their books which are void because of the State preemption such as Washington Island and its prohibition of firearms in public...
    I'll look into that. Since state law supersedes local laws I'm not sure if that will be an issue. I will keep it in mind though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shernandez View Post
    I'll look into that. Since state law supersedes local laws I'm not sure if that will be an issue. I will keep it in mind though.
    The issue is if municipalities are so full of themselves that they choose to enforce (cite for violation of) such local ordinances in spite of State law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    The issue is if municipalities are so full of themselves that they choose to enforce (cite for violation of) such local ordinances in spite of State law.
    I will keep it in mind since it does come up a lot. Thanks!

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    I received several good leads so far. Thanks!

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    Maybe a reference to the numerous sheriffs, and DA's in WI who agree with CC as opposed to the ones like in Milwaukee and Madison who oppose it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlifter View Post
    Maybe a reference to the numerous sheriffs, and DA's in WI who agree with CC as opposed to the ones like in Milwaukee and Madison who oppose it?
    The sheriffs agree with it, the police chiefs do not.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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    I think it would be worth pointing out to employers that if they allow employees to carry the company can't be held liable, however it does not say that they can't be held liable if they don't allow carry and something does happen.

    as an example say a pizza delivery driver , is issued a permit and carries when not at work but his employer doesn't allow it , he is mugged and beaten , the driver could hold liable the company for not allowing him reasonable measures to protect him or her self.

    however if they allow carry , and the driver shoots the attacker , the pizza company can not be held liable int he death of the attacker.

    this is what i took from reading it. when it says that the employer will not be held liable if they allow employees to carry , but it doesn't spell that out in the reverse then the protection would appear to be one way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCountyPete View Post
    I think it would be worth pointing out to employers that if they allow employees to carry the company can't be held liable, however it does not say that they can't be held liable if they don't allow carry and something does happen.

    as an example say a pizza delivery driver , is issued a permit and carries when not at work but his employer doesn't allow it , he is mugged and beaten , the driver could hold liable the company for not allowing him reasonable measures to protect him or her self.

    however if they allow carry , and the driver shoots the attacker , the pizza company can not be held liable int he death of the attacker.

    this is what i took from reading it. when it says that the employer will not be held liable if they allow employees to carry , but it doesn't spell that out in the reverse then the protection would appear to be one way.
    that is an interesting point. Thanks for the input.

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    Hi Samantha,

    I do hope you will post a link to your story when it is published.

    I am an ex-citizen of Wisconsin and now live in Utah, but visit WI about twice per year. I am also a State of Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor and have taught dozens of my former friends and neighbors the Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Course. Many of them now have the UT non-resident permit which gives them the right to carry in about 30 states (3/5 of the USA). Perhaps one angle your article could examine is why many WI Citizens have non-resident permits, mostly the UT permit. And, how many more are anxious to get a broad-coverage non-resident permit now that WI is going to be a "Shall Issue" concealed carry permit state. (The whimpy, or as McX puts it, "streamlined" Wisconsin training requirements are well below the standards of many other states so while it is likely that WI will recognize nearly all other permits, the reverse will not be true.)

    Jim
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    Hi Samantha,

    I do hope you will post a link to your story when it is published.

    I am an ex-citizen of Wisconsin and now live in Utah, but visit WI about twice per year. I am also a State of Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor and have taught dozens of my former friends and neighbors the Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Course. Many of them now have the UT non-resident permit which gives them the right to carry in about 30 states (3/5 of the USA). Perhaps one angle your article could examine is why many WI Citizens have non-resident permits, mostly the UT permit. And, how many more are anxious to get a broad-coverage non-resident permit now that WI is going to be a "Shall Issue" concealed carry permit state. (The whimpy, or as McX puts it, "streamlined" Wisconsin training requirements are well below the standards of many other states so while it is likely that WI will recognize nearly all other permits, the reverse will not be true.)

    Jim
    Thanks, Jim. I love your profile picture by the way. I had been wondering whether all permits held the same legal weight (for lack of a better phrase) from state to state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shernandez View Post
    Thanks, Jim. I love your profile picture by the way. I had been wondering whether all permits held the same legal weight (for lack of a better phrase) from state to state.
    Hello Samantha,

    If I may, here is a quick course:

    A quick trip to www.handgunlaw.us will give you a good picture of which states are "may issue" (mostly political issue or insanely difficult requirements) and "shall issue" (must issue to any qualified citizen), which states only honor "home state" permits (CO, MI, SC, NH, ME, FL) and a state by state accounting of whose permits each state honors and which states honor that state's permit and whether or not a given state honors non-resident permits. This site will also let you compile a list of states that only issue to residents (example; WI, MN, CO, etc.) You will also learn what each state requires for a permit. I have found this to be a very good source as the webmasters provide links to the permit issuing authority in each State.

    The UT, MN, FL, and AZ permits are the most widely accepted, and thus most popular, but MN does not issue to non-residents. UT, FL, and AZ will issue to non-residents and permits can be applied for by mail. FL and AZ require formal firearms training including range time. UT requires firearms familiarity using real firearms and dummy ammunition, but no range qualification. The UT permit is probably the easiest to get and cheapest to renew ($15). A google search will take you to a New York Times article about a PA citizen with a PA permit who also got a UT permit to expand his ability to carry while traveling. The UT permit is often described as the most desired by non-residents (or at least the most desired by the man interviewed by the New York Times).

    There are two "right denied" states; Wisconsin and Illinois. VT does not issue permits, but any citizen of any state can carry concealed in VT. There are 10 "may issue" states. Thus, there are 37 "shall issue" states + VT. On November 1, 2011, Wisconsin will join the ranks of "shall issue" states, leaving Illinois the only remaining "right denied" state. Please note that Alabama is "may issue" but most counties behave as "shall issue". Thus, on November 1, 2011, there will effectively be 1 right denied state, 9 true may issue states, and 39 shall issue states (if you count AL in the "shall issue" category) + VT which does not issue or require permits to carry a concealed firearm. The States of Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona do not require a concealed firearm permit for any citizen of any state to carry a concealed firearm. Wyoming will allow residents of Wyoming to carry a concealed firearm without a permit, but non-residents must have a permit that is honored by Wyoming. (Many such non-residents choose the UT permit.)

    I hope this information is useful to you. (And thanks for the compliment with respect to the "Yellow Cat With The M-4".)
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    Hello Samantha,

    If I may, here is a quick course:

    A quick trip to www.handgunlaw.us will give you a good picture of which states are "may issue" (mostly political issue or insanely difficult requirements) and "shall issue" (must issue to any qualified citizen), which states only honor "home state" permits (CO, MI, SC, NH, ME, FL) and a state by state accounting of whose permits each state honors and which states honor that state's permit and whether or not a given state honors non-resident permits. This site will also let you compile a list of states that only issue to residents (example; WI, MN, CO, etc.) You will also learn what each state requires for a permit. I have found this to be a very good source as the webmasters provide links to the permit issuing authority in each State.

    The UT, MN, FL, and AZ permits are the most widely accepted, and thus most popular, but MN does not issue to non-residents. UT, FL, and AZ will issue to non-residents and permits can be applied for by mail. FL and AZ require formal firearms training including range time. UT requires firearms familiarity using real firearms and dummy ammunition, but no range qualification. The UT permit is probably the easiest to get and cheapest to renew ($15). A google search will take you to a New York Times article about a PA citizen with a PA permit who also got a UT permit to expand his ability to carry while traveling. The UT permit is often described as the most desired by non-residents (or at least the most desired by the man interviewed by the New York Times).

    There are two "right denied" states; Wisconsin and Illinois. VT does not issue permits, but any citizen of any state can carry concealed in VT. There are 10 "may issue" states. Thus, there are 37 "shall issue" states + VT. On November 1, 2011, Wisconsin will join the ranks of "shall issue" states, leaving Illinois the only remaining "right denied" state. Please note that Alabama is "may issue" but most counties behave as "shall issue". Thus, on November 1, 2011, there will effectively be 1 right denied state, 9 true may issue states, and 39 shall issue states (if you count AL in the "shall issue" category) + VT which does not issue or require permits to carry a concealed firearm. The States of Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona do not require a concealed firearm permit for any citizen of any state to carry a concealed firearm. Wyoming will allow residents of Wyoming to carry a concealed firearm without a permit, but non-residents must have a permit that is honored by Wyoming. (Many such non-residents choose the UT permit.)

    I hope this information is useful to you. (And thanks for the compliment with respect to the "Yellow Cat With The M-4".)
    Thanks for the additional info. There is so much to learn! I appreciate everyone taking the time to give their input and knowledge (and links to more knowledge).
    (Jim, somewhere I have a picture of a raptor riding a great white shark while holding a missile launcher.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by shernandez View Post
    (Jim, somewhere I have a picture of a raptor riding a great white shark while holding a missile launcher.)
    Make it your profile avatar.

    J
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    Make it your profile avatar.

    J
    Once my story is written, otherwise no one will take me seriously.

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Make it your profile avitar on this forum - we all take you seriously.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlifter
    Maybe a reference to the numerous sheriffs, and DA's in WI who agree with CC as opposed to the ones like in Milwaukee and Madison who oppose it?
    Quote Originally Posted by protias
    The sheriffs agree with it, the police chiefs do not.
    Yeah, what he said.
    I was at the Madison hearing on the permit bill that was merged (to put it politely) into SB93 (the Constitutional Carry bill). The people I rode over with, & sat with, were astonished when Milwaukee County Sheriff Clarke spoke in FAVOR of armed law-abiding citizens.
    (Of course, he also wants a bunch of restrictions, including making carrying w/o a permit a felony, but it's a start.)

    Milwaukee Police Chief Flynn is & has long been against lawfully-armed citizens. Of course, he's in bed with Mayor Barrett (who is a nice guy, but thinks wrongly on some issues), so will back Barrett's Mayors Against Guns agenda.

    Neither of them is able to understand the difference between me defending myself from a home invader & the criminal breaking into my home trying to harm me. (Or a parallel situation out in public.)

    Quote Originally Posted by shernandez
    I had been wondering whether all permits held the same legal weight (for lack of a better phrase) from state to state.
    LOL!
    We keep working toward that, but it's a ways off.
    It'd be nice if my right to self-protection were recognized in all states & territories just like my right to worship (or speak, or remain silent when questioned by police, or have a jury trial, or any other right) is.
    Or heck, even if carry permits were recognized like driving permits & rules of the road.

    Imagine if, when driving from WI to IN, the driving rules changed every time you crossed a state boundry. (Or worse, a county or city boundry! )

    In WI, you can only drive forward & on the right side of the road, & you have to be 18 to get a license, with a note from your parents saying they think you're an OK driver.

    In IL, you must drive backward on the right side of the road & you have to be 50 to get a license (good for 1 year), after passing the same driving test required of Secret Service agents. Anyone who wants to stop for more than gas/potty while driving in the state must have an IL driver's license, & they're only issued to IL residents.

    And in IN, you must drive forward but on the left side of the road. You can get a license at 16, & it's good for life.

    That's kind of how screwed-up gun-related laws are.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 08-04-2011 at 10:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    LOL!
    We keep working toward that, but it's a ways off.
    It'd be nice if my right to self-protection were recognized in all states & territories just like my right to worship (or speak, or remain silent when questioned by police, or have a jury trial, or any other right) is.
    Or heck, even if carry permits were recognized like driving permits & rules of the road.

    Imagine if, when driving from WI to IN, the driving rules changed every time you crossed a state boundry. (Or worse, a county or city boundry! )

    In WI, you can only drive forward & on the right side of the road, & you have to be 18 to get a license, after showing proof that your parents think you're an OK driver.

    In IL, you must drive backward on the right side of the road & you have to be 50 to get a license (good for 1 year), after passing the same driving test required of Secret Service agents.

    And in IN, you must drive forward but on the left side of the road. You can get a license at 16, & it's good for life.

    That's kind of how screwed-up gun-related laws are.
    Nice to see that you're still on the board MKEgirl. Thanks for the input. And your analogy of driving seems to fit the situation.

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    This?
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    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    This?
    That would be it.

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