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Thread: Gunshot Demographics. The ugly underbelly of the anti-gun-rights position - LOUNGE

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    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    Gunshot Demographics. The ugly underbelly of the anti-gun-rights position - LOUNGE

    Here is an article by Alan Korwin I wanted to post:

    http://jpfo.org/articles-assd02/guns...mographics.htm
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Something long suspected, but un-politically correct to point out, indeed.


    It's a cultural thing... and yes we Do understand.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Very interesting.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Amigo!
    It would be terrific if such maps were produced for every major city in America.
    I wonder if the trend would be similar in each city surveyed?

    We have a problem in Denver with gangs running around, often in groups of 8, 10, 15.
    They will assault and rob specific types of people; Whites and Hispanics. There is some question whether any victims of such attacks have died locally, but it is evident who these thugs are targeting. With these particular cases, the assailants fit the suspect profile. The victims do not. So it may end up skewing the results here differently than what other cities are reporting.

    Regardless, thank you for posting this terrific bit of information!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    There is an old saying that goes: If we are not willing to study history, and learn from it, we are bound to repeat it.

    What history? The XVIII ammendment, that is: prohibition. What did prohibition do? It made a lot of 2 bit crooks very wealthy, it brought us mass gang violence, a lot of people died, a lot went to jail...for what reason???? because some do gooder decided that because he thought alcohol was bad for people, he would save the world by banning alcohol...oh yes, and let's not forget, Prohibition also brought US the NFA 1934..... Yes, and Canada's stupid gun laws started then too.

    Tell me how the "war on drugs" is any different? or the outcome will be any different. grow up America, read your history books and then tell me what good is being done by this stupid "war".

    I can balance the budget tomorrow, call a cease fire on the "war", make any drug misuse a medical problem (which is what it is for the abusers) no crimminal penality. repeal all the anti-drug and anti-gun laws and send the ATF and the DEA to the unemployment line,.

    And yes I know, Ron Paul is the politico that does not think I'm crazy.,

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Amigo!
    It would be terrific if such maps were produced for every major city in America.
    I wonder if the trend would be similar in each city surveyed?
    It would also be useful if they pointed out the demographics of the area. Baltimore has a vast majority of black-on-black violence, but it's also a city with a large black majority (about 64%).

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    Regular Member chcknhawk's Avatar
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    That was an awesome find and a great read. I love that here in Texas we're getting over this "guns kill people" myth. I can legally carry my gun into the State Capitol and have. Nothing happened. No one died, no one was shot, and no crimes were committed.

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    It's interesting to note the tool notes the victims' ethnicity, not the perpetrators. Not reading into that, just that there's a limited amount of data available there.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    The Black ,male 18-24 demographic is well represented in the Colorado Springs violent crime statistics.

    The video scenes of what's been going on in London the past few days is a familiar scene - Watts, Detroit, etc. What is their "excuse" in the UK - when was the last black slave emancipated there?

    The fact is these punks don't need an "excuse". There is a propensity to this sort of behavior within that particular demographic culture. Call it environmental, or call it latent, cultural "tribal" reflex - the result is the same. Civilized society is fed up with this "reflex" of rioting, and looting, and assaults on the police. As long as this population continues to resort to such displays of anarchy in response to blaming everyone else but themselves for their perceived unjust circumstances - this will remain their lot.

    Again - "Extremism ALWAYS brings about its OWN DESTRUCTION."

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    that was an awesome article. made me feel safer, too.

    they should have a map like that for every major city.

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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    Check your local news stations websites. In the triangle area of NC, WRAL has crime maps for a number of different cities...

    http://www.wral.com/news/local/page/5561108/

    YMMV

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    There is an old saying that goes: If we are not willing to study history, and learn from it, we are bound to repeat it.

    What history? The XVIII ammendment, that is: prohibition. What did prohibition do? It made a lot of 2 bit crooks very wealthy, it brought us mass gang violence, a lot of people died, a lot went to jail...for what reason???? because some do gooder decided that because he thought alcohol was bad for people, he would save the world by banning alcohol...oh yes, and let's not forget, Prohibition also brought US the NFA 1934..... Yes, and Canada's stupid gun laws started then too.

    Tell me how the "war on drugs" is any different? or the outcome will be any different. grow up America, read your history books and then tell me what good is being done by this stupid "war".

    I can balance the budget tomorrow, call a cease fire on the "war", make any drug misuse a medical problem (which is what it is for the abusers) no crimminal penality. repeal all the anti-drug and anti-gun laws and send the ATF and the DEA to the unemployment line,.

    And yes I know, Ron Paul is the politico that does not think I'm crazy.,

    word up

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    I am not a big fan of the war on drugs, but I don't think we can blame it for gang violence. The act of selling drugs does not make one violent, neither will decriminalizing those drugs turn a violent person into a good citizen. If all drugs were legalized and became dirt cheap overnight, the violent criminals would simply find a more profitable venture. The reason young, black men are dying is that they choose to enter a life of violent crime; the specific crime in question is moot. I agree that the drug war is a waste of time, but we should not delude ourselves into thinking that we can eliminate violent crime or save money just by legalizing drugs. If a drug dealer can no longer fund his lifestyle with drugs, he's not going to throw away his guns and go to college; he's going to take up kidnapping, bank robbing, etc. Don't send the DEA to the unemployment line; merge them into the FBI. They'll still have plenty of work to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Round Engines View Post
    I am not a big fan of the war on drugs, but I don't think we can blame it for gang violence. The act of selling drugs does not make one violent, neither will decriminalizing those drugs turn a violent person into a good citizen. If all drugs were legalized and became dirt cheap overnight, the violent criminals would simply find a more profitable venture. The reason young, black men are dying is that they choose to enter a life of violent crime; the specific crime in question is moot. I agree that the drug war is a waste of time, but we should not delude ourselves into thinking that we can eliminate violent crime or save money just by legalizing drugs. If a drug dealer can no longer fund his lifestyle with drugs, he's not going to throw away his guns and go to college; he's going to take up kidnapping, bank robbing, etc. Don't send the DEA to the unemployment line; merge them into the FBI. They'll still have plenty of work to do.
    I disagree. We can't blame the "war on drugs" for all gang violence but we can blame it for most of it. A quote attributed to the ancient chinese philosopher Lǎo zǐ may have said it best: "The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be." Just as prohibition of alcohol caused a huge increase in violent crime, the "war on drugs" caused an even bigger one. If we legalize freedom there won't be a heck of a lot left for organized crime to do besides cons and extortion. Sure some of them will try to rob banks, as they do now, but that's much easier and cheaper to prevent and easier for law enforcement to bring them to justice.

    The problem with prohibition, be it drugs or alcohol, is that it makes trafficking them much more lucrative than if they are legal. Just like in stocks, you have a greater potential profit when you take more risk. Get rid of this potential and I'll bet the bank that we will see violent deaths fall by at least 50% in this country and most likely nearly 75% in Mexico. Isn't that alone is worth giving it a try?

    It's actually easier for young people to get drugs than it is for them to get alcohol. I remember having the darndest time trying to get someone to buy me some beer but I knew 3 people to pick up some pot from had I wanted to. Treating drugs the same way we now treat alcohol will actually help keep it out of the hands of young people and treating drug addiction like alcoholism is much better than the alternative of keeping 594,000 non-violent criminals in jail. It's also way cheaper and morally right. It's been proven also that many of these people who are non-violent going into prison come out violent criminals.

    Most importantly to this board, as another poster eluded to, gun control and prohibition are inexorably linked. Even then, the source of the problem was prohibition itself and not the firearms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    I disagree. We can't blame the "war on drugs" for all gang violence but we can blame it for most of it. A quote attributed to the ancient chinese philosopher Lǎo zǐ may have said it best: "The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be." Just as prohibition of alcohol caused a huge increase in violent crime, the "war on drugs" caused an even bigger one. If we legalize freedom there won't be a heck of a lot left for organized crime to do besides cons and extortion. Sure some of them will try to rob banks, as they do now, but that's much easier and cheaper to prevent and easier for law enforcement to bring them to justice.

    The problem with prohibition, be it drugs or alcohol, is that it makes trafficking them much more lucrative than if they are legal. Just like in stocks, you have a greater potential profit when you take more risk. Get rid of this potential and I'll bet the bank that we will see violent deaths fall by at least 50% in this country and most likely nearly 75% in Mexico. Isn't that alone is worth giving it a try?

    It's actually easier for young people to get drugs than it is for them to get alcohol. I remember having the darndest time trying to get someone to buy me some beer but I knew 3 people to pick up some pot from had I wanted to. Treating drugs the same way we now treat alcohol will actually help keep it out of the hands of young people and treating drug addiction like alcoholism is much better than the alternative of keeping 594,000 non-violent criminals in jail. It's also way cheaper and morally right. It's been proven also that many of these people who are non-violent going into prison come out violent criminals.

    Most importantly to this board, as another poster eluded to, gun control and prohibition are inexorably linked. Even then, the source of the problem was prohibition itself and not the firearms.
    well it appears that there are at least a few intelligent people on this board

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    We have a problem in Denver with gangs running around...
    Denver, the mile-high and only no-OC city in Colorado. How's that working for them?

    ...often in groups of 8, 10, 15.
    That's justification enough that my magazine capacities should begin with 10, not end with it.
    Last edited by since9; 08-13-2011 at 09:44 PM.
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    the gang problem is a money problem. Most of the individuals involved do not want to work, but want everything that money can purchase.

    If you give them an easy way to make money without working (say the war of drugs, or a disproportionately high tax on anything) those looking for an easy buck head for it.

    If you take the money away, the problem will disappear. Ontario had a problem with smuggled cigarettes from New York. They spent millions trying to interdict the untaxed (by Ontario) smokes. Ontario lowered their tax on smokes and now New York has a smuggled cigarette problem. Ontario now has lower enforcement costs, and more tax revenue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    It would also be useful if they pointed out the demographics of the area. Baltimore has a vast majority of black-on-black violence, but it's also a city with a large black majority (about 64%).
    And a high percentage of them make up the City Government and police force. Its no wonder that the young people in Baltimore have such a high crime rate--look at their "role models"...

    http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news...rested_in.html

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=120330775

    http://www.lawofficer.com/video/news...fficers-charge

    http://charmcitycurrent.com/glover/2...2%80%A6-again/
    Last edited by Dreamer; 08-19-2011 at 05:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    And a high percentage of them make up the City Government and police force. Its no wonder that the young people in Baltimore have such a high crime rate--look at their "role models"...
    It's been suggested that "The Wire" should win an award... for Best Documentary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    There is an old saying that goes: If we are not willing to study history, and learn from it, we are bound to repeat it.

    What history? The XVIII ammendment, that is: prohibition. What did prohibition do? It made a lot of 2 bit crooks very wealthy, it brought us mass gang violence, a lot of people died, a lot went to jail...for what reason???? because some do gooder decided that because he thought alcohol was bad for people, he would save the world by banning alcohol...oh yes, and let's not forget, Prohibition also brought US the NFA 1934..... Yes, and Canada's stupid gun laws started then too.

    Tell me how the "war on drugs" is any different? or the outcome will be any different. grow up America, read your history books and then tell me what good is being done by this stupid "war".

    I can balance the budget tomorrow, call a cease fire on the "war", make any drug misuse a medical problem (which is what it is for the abusers) no crimminal penality. repeal all the anti-drug and anti-gun laws and send the ATF and the DEA to the unemployment line,.

    And yes I know, Ron Paul is the politico that does not think I'm crazy.,
    I don't think you're crazy, I concur
    Last edited by KansasMustang; 08-21-2011 at 08:21 AM. Reason: typo
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Waiting for someone to chime in and throw the race card & say that article is Racist.. Funny how that article & those numbers are not news to me, but then again I am not a Brainwashed Lib... Glad my sister lives well outside the Black Zone of death in Chicago...
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 08-29-2011 at 04:28 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    There is an old saying that goes: If we are not willing to study history, and learn from it, we are bound to repeat it.

    What history? The XVIII ammendment, that is: prohibition. What did prohibition do? It made a lot of 2 bit crooks very wealthy, it brought us mass gang violence, a lot of people died, a lot went to jail...for what reason???? because some do gooder decided that because he thought alcohol was bad for people, he would save the world by banning alcohol...oh yes, and let's not forget, Prohibition also brought US the NFA 1934..... Yes, and Canada's stupid gun laws started then too.

    Tell me how the "war on drugs" is any different? or the outcome will be any different. grow up America, read your history books and then tell me what good is being done by this stupid "war".
    I think this demographic analysis of alcohol use is very revealing. Most of the results show slight differences between various groups. The differences that do stand out are the totals of those who've recently used alcohol (66.1%) as compared to other identifiers:

    Males: 70.7%
    Females: 61.8%

    Whites: 70%
    Blacks: 55%
    Hispanics: 60%

    Less than HS: 52%
    High School: 68%
    Some College: 75%
    College Grad: 80%

    I also found interesting the demographics that don't seem to have much effect: Where they live (metro to rural) and employment status.

    What this tells me is that people who're more driven are more likely to use alcohol. By inference, they're probably more likely to abuse alcohol and use illegal drugs, as well.

    Therefore, hermannr, legalizing drugs will only increase problems here in America, as more use will result in decreased productivity, particularly among those who have more education, as they're the least likely to engage in unlawful behavior. This is not a recipe for success, either for the individuals or for the country as a whole.

    Making drug use a "medical problem" however, isn't a bad idea. Like the commercial says, drug courts focus on getting alcohol and drug abusers/addicts the help they need instead of incarceration, which is less helpful and far more expensive to society. Incarceration also serves to introduce them to the worst elements of society while giving them a black mark from which it's difficult to recover.

    As for the "war" on drugs, several countries have successfully minimized drug production and/or use within their borders. Columbia's drug cartels, for example, were largely eradicated. "Sweden's Drug Control Policies combine balanced public health approach and opposition to drug legalization. The prevalence rates for cocaine use in Sweden are barely one-fifth of European neighbors such as the United Kingdom and Spain. - Source

    According to the self-appointed Global Commission on Drug Policy, "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world. Fifty years after the initiation of the UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, and years after President Nixon launched the US government’s war on drugs, fundamental reforms in national and global drug control policies are urgently needed."

    Legalization of psychoactive drugs aren't the answer. The answer lies in examining why Sweden's approach works while the U.S. approach has not:

    1. What is Sweden doing that we're not doing? We should adopt those measures to the maximum extent possible.

    2. What is the U.S. doing that Sweden is not doing? We should drop those measures to the maximum extent possible.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    [snip]Legalization of psychoactive drugs aren't the answer.[snip]
    Psychoactive drugs? What? Like alcohol, nicotine and caffeine? It'll be awesome when I'm arrested for sipping on my $50, black-market morning joe. Oh wait, that won't happen because we tired it once with alcohol, nicotine makes too much money in taxes and caffeine leads to too much productivity. Then again, those prisons need inmates.

    What gives anyone the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own body? Heck, I don't even drink anymore and can still see the folly with regulation of other things that I don't do.

    The "war on SOME drugs" would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that WE are the punchline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Psychoactive drugs? What? Like alcohol, nicotine and caffeine?
    Yes, but you should know better than to intentionally obfuscate the issue by lumping mild and natural substances like these three with the more potent ones which are appropriately controlled substances. Here's a refresher.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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