Will Wisconsin be a "Gold Star" state after November 1st? I say it should be!!!!!!!!

pkbites · Aug 3, 2011

Will Wisconsin be a "Gold Star" state after November 1st? I say it should be!!!!!!!!

Short of constitutional carry the CCW law as written/passed/signed/to be enacted law we wouldn't have [nocturnal emission] dreamed of 10 short years ago. Rome wasn't built in a day. After some time with this law and the chicken littles are proven absurd, we will then get our constitutional carry here.

The law (read the DOJ FAQ) solidifies open carry as a RIGHT and even has sanctions against law enforcement (FYI I've been a cop for 29+ years) for how they behave towards open/concealed carriers.

Did you ever imagine a law this good when diamond Jim was guv?

While there is always room for improvement in the fight to protect our right to bear arms (constitutional carry, pistols sold in vending machines, etc., etc.) I say the Majikal Land O' Cheese should get bumped up to gold star status on 11/1/11.

What say you?

ManInBlack · Aug 3, 2011

All of the current gold star states make some provision for unlicensed carry in a private motor vehicle. An important distinguishing characteristic of states is whether they recognize the innate, God-given, and Constitutionally-guaranteed right of the individual to be armed while exercising his natural right to travel.

BROKENSPROKET · Aug 3, 2011

I'd say I agree, but not just yet. Not even considering Constitutional Carry, Act 35 needs some things that need to be fixed before 11/1/11. If those ammendments make it through and AB69 passes with Stand Your Ground lanquage, then I am all in to agree with you.

jpm84092 · Aug 3, 2011

Wisconsin Is Making Progress

The Wisconsin Law (SB-93 as amended) may not be all everyone hoped for, but it one whole lot better than what existed on November 1, 2010.

LaBomba · Aug 3, 2011

BROKENSPROKET said:
I'd say I agree, but not just yet. Not even considering Constitutional Carry, Act 35 needs some things that need to be fixed before 11/1/11. If those ammendments make it through and AB69 passes with Stand Your Ground lanquage, then I am all in to agree with you.

Are there changes coming before 11/1/11 to Act 35?

protias · Aug 3, 2011

LaBomba said:
Are there changes coming before 11/1/11 to Act 35?

No.

Deadscott · Aug 3, 2011

It's a hell of a lot better than what Illinois has

safcrkr · Aug 3, 2011

ManInBlack said:
All of the current gold star states make some provision for unlicensed carry in a private motor vehicle. An important distinguishing characteristic of states is whether they recognize the innate, God-given, and Constitutionally-guaranteed right of the individual to be armed while exercising his natural right to travel.

As does WI Act 35. It allows for "open carry" of loaded handguns in motor vehicles, minus CC license. Handgun must not be concealed, unless licensed for CC. Attorney General has been requested to clarify what is concealed and what is not... but AG has not yet responded.

This is the 4th concealed carry law I've seen make it to the WI Legislature, and by far, it's the best of the bunch.

BROKENSPROKET · Aug 3, 2011

protias said:
LaBomba said:

Are there changes coming before 11/1/11 to Act 35?

Click to expand...

No.

You may be right, but how do you know?

All I know is that Nate Neslon was working with Brent Gardner on this, so a bill to make all the fixes could be introduced in September, but I don't know that it will be for sure.

protias · Aug 3, 2011

BROKENSPROKET said:
You may be right, but how do you know?

All I know is that Nate Neslon was working with Brent Gardner on this, so a bill to make all the fixes could be introduced in September, but I don't know that it will be for sure.

Perhaps I should clean up my statement then? "As it currently stand, not to my knowledge."

pkbites · Oct 7, 2012

*We have unlicensed open carry (except in a school zone, but that's only to comply with federal law)
*We have an unlicensed open carry age of only 18
*We have unlicensed open carry in vehicles (with a court precedent confirming it)
*Carry in bars/restaurants is legal
*We have unlicensed open and concealed carry in our homes/businesses.
*Castle Doctrine
*We have total state preemption
*Open carry is unquestionably legal, with the State Supreme Court, Attorney General, Act 35, and state Disorderly Conduct statute saying it is.

Sounds like Gold Star material to me!

MKEgal · Oct 8, 2012

I agree with most of what you've said.
And yes, it's a bleep of a lot better than before 01NOV11.

pkbites said:
We have unlicensed open carry except in taxpayer-owned buildings (& in a school zone, but that's only to comply with federal law)

FTFY.
I think that's one thing that needs to be corrected; no gov't agency (other than locked & searched places like those stated in the law - jail/prison, secure mental health facility, & courts, all of which should be required to provide free secure storage) should be allowed to prevent the peaceful exercise of a protected civil right - open or concealed carry. [:cough: WI State Capitol :cough:]

And I'd like WI law to simply reference the federal law, rather than picking & choosing which sections to adopt. I mean, we still have the "unloaded & encased" provision to be legally in possession in/on the grounds of a school, but having the ability to pick up the kids after school, watch their ball game, & even be in the classroom as the parent helper of the day would make life a bit easier.

We have an unlicensed open carry age of only 18

[sarcasm] Imagine that - adults are allowed to exercise their rights. [/sarcasm]
That's not directed at you in particular, but rather at the whole stupid situation of some adults being more worthy than other adults, based solely on age.
I've thought that since I was in the sort-of-but-not-really-an-adult category myself.

pkbites · Oct 8, 2012

There are Gold Star rated states that don't have what we have here, such as legal carry in places that serve liquor. Yet those states are still Gold Star rated.

"Gold star" does not have to mean 100% perfect.

MKEgal · Oct 8, 2012

The thing I think will be most amusing is to see how far we've 'fallen' in the eyes of the gun grabbers.
What was our Joyce Foundation rating back in 2008,
what happened in 2009 when the AG made it clear that OC is legal,
and what happened to the latest rating issued since Act 35?
I'm betting that we're getting lower & lower.

:monkey

Mike · Oct 8, 2012

I think you all have a good point - if Wisconsin allows open carry in vehicles now, and generally preempts localities on gun carry rules, then yes it would appear Wisconsin is a Gold Star Open carry State.

Does anyone have a link to the "court case" or snip of recent statutory changes indicating that open cary in vehicles without a license is not presumptively considered concealed?

I think the court case is the relatively low level trial court and its use of a jury instruction favorable to the Defendant who was open carryingin a vehicle, yes?

pkbites · Oct 9, 2012

Mike said:
I think you all have a good point - if Wisconsin allows open carry in vehicles now, and generally preempts localities on gun carry rules, then yes it would appear Wisconsin is a Gold Star Open carry State.

Does anyone have a link to the "court case" or snip of recent statutory changes indicating that open cary in vehicles without a license is not presumptively considered concealed?

I think the court case is the relatively low level trial court and its use of a jury instruction favorable to the Defendant who was open carryingin a vehicle, yes?

Give me some time on this. I have been to 3 training sessions regarding the new laws, including one that Assistant Attorney General Dave Perlman spoke. At all 3 we were instructed that unlicensed open carry in a vehicle was legal, and given scenarios as to what was concealed in a vehicle and what was not. If that is what is being trained then there must be some documentation in law somewhere. I'll try to find it.

Also, I know there is a video of Perlman out on the web stating it's legal. I saw it, but about 6 months ago. Let me try to find it again.

pkbites · Oct 9, 2012

I don't think you'll be able to access this as it is on WILENET and therefore restricted to law enforcement. But it's from a FAQ put out by the Wisconsin Dpeartment of Justice for police officers and district attornies:

25. Can a citizen transport a concealed, loaded, unsheathed, handgun in his her vehicle?
Yes. A person with a CCW license can carry a concealed weapon, including a handgun, in their car. Under the new law, even a person without a CCW license can carry a handgun or load a handgun in his/her vehicle, so long as the weapon is not concealed. However long guns (rifles/shotguns) still must be unloaded and encased while in a vehicle, whether the person is a CCW license holder or not. 167.32(2)(b) and (c).

https://wilenet.org/secure/html/lgldrawer/ccw_faq_le.pdf

protias · Oct 9, 2012

pkbites said:
I don't think you'll be able to access this as it is on WILENET and therefore restricted to law enforcement. But it's from a FAQ put out by the Wisconsin Dpeartment of Justice for police officers and district attornies:

25. Can a citizen transport a concealed, loaded, unsheathed, handgun in his her vehicle?
Yes. A person with a CCW license can carry a concealed weapon, including a handgun, in their car. Under the new law, even a person without a CCW license can carry a handgun or load a handgun in his/her vehicle, so long as the weapon is not concealed. However long guns (rifles/shotguns) still must be unloaded and encased while in a vehicle, whether the person is a CCW license holder or not. 167.32(2)(b) and (c).

https://wilenet.org/secure/html/lgldrawer/ccw_faq_le.pdf

This is false on two accounts. 167.31 does not specify OC or CC for handguns. It removed the restriction to having a loaded handgun in the vehicle. As for long guns, Act 51 changed that. You no longer need to encase a [unloaded] long gun.

pkbites · Oct 9, 2012

protias said:
This is false on two accounts. 167.31 does not specify OC or CC for handguns. It removed the restriction to having a loaded handgun in the vehicle. As for long guns, Act 51 changed that. You no longer need to encase a [unloaded] long gun.

The FAQ I cited came out after Act 35 was enacted but before Act 51 was (July 8, 2011 and November 4, 2011 respectively) so you are correct in that sense.

But no act made a vehicle an exception for CCW in a vehicle. But if open carry if legal, and it is legal to have a loaded uncased handgun in a vehicle, then open carry of a loaded handgun is legal in a vehicle.

E6chevron · Oct 11, 2012

pkbites said:
I don't think you'll be able to access this as it is on WILENET and therefore restricted to law enforcement. But it's from a FAQ put out by the Wisconsin Dpeartment of Justice for police officers and district attornies:

25. Can a citizen transport a concealed, loaded, unsheathed, handgun in his her vehicle?
Yes. A person with a CCW license can carry a concealed weapon, including a handgun, in their car. Under the new law, even a person without a CCW license can carry a handgun or load a handgun in his/her vehicle, so long as the weapon is not concealed. However long guns (rifles/shotguns) still must be unloaded and encased while in a vehicle, whether the person is a CCW license holder or not. 167.32(2)(b) and (c).

https://wilenet.org/secure/html/lgldrawer/ccw_faq_le.pdf

I'm not sure where the error originated, but the correct cite for this FAQ #25. should be to 167.31(2)(b) and (c).

Statute 167.32 has to do with "Safety at sporting events".

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/167/31

Will Wisconsin be a "Gold Star" state after November 1st? I say it should be!!!!!!!!

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